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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: blondie11 on Friday 04 February 11 14:02 GMT (UK)

Title: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: blondie11 on Friday 04 February 11 14:02 GMT (UK)
hello new today, i'm stuck got a the name of my G.Grandmother and an adress, got this from my grandmars birth cert but can't get up any info about this lady anywhere, even census comes up blank, cant add any more info like birth or death dates as have just the name and address, anyone know how to carry on  ::)
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 February 11 14:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Blondie  ;)

Welcome to RootsChat!

You already have a start if you have your grandma's birth certificate.

Now you have her parents' names, including her mother's maiden name, and also your grandma's date and place of birth.

If you post these details on RootsChat, there will be lots of volunteers who will check censuses etc for you, and get you on track!

Good luck

Judy  ;)
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: blondie11 on Friday 04 February 11 14:15 GMT (UK)
thank you for your reply, the odd thing was there was no Fathers name, very odd back in 1920 when my gran was born ! Where would the best place be to post details for people to have a look at, seems a good site but not sure of my way around it yet  :o
oh and there was no date of birth for my grandmars mother, this may be normal ??
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: aghadowey on Friday 04 February 11 14:20 GMT (UK)
Welcome to Rootschat. If you give us more details we might be help- just remember not to post details of living people.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: blondie11 on Friday 04 February 11 14:24 GMT (UK)
My Grandmar was Frances Poynter Born in South Shields 14.10.20  Her mother was Georgina Poynter the address on b.cert was 55 Stainton street south shields, no father documented
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 February 11 14:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Blondie

If there was no father's name, it seems possible that your grandma was illegitimate. In that case you might never trace her father's ancestry (but never say never!) but you could certainly look for her mother's ancestors. Unfortunately birth certificates don't give the parents dates or places of birth.

Now that you have started this thread you could post the details on here - her name, address, date of birth, and her mother's name (as long, as Aghadowey, says, you don not post details of any living people!)
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 February 11 14:59 GMT (UK)
Hi Blondie  ;)

There is a possibility for Georgiana Poynter on the 1901 census -

address -356, John Williamson Street, South Shields 

 
POINTER, Walter Head Married aged 37 occupation - Factory Labourer born  Hempstead Norfolk
POINTER, Thirza Wife Married  aged 36 born  Hempstead Norfolk 
POINTER, Emma H Daughter  aged 9 born  South Shields Durham 
POINTER, Frances E Daughter aged   8 born  Jarrow Durham 
POINTER, Edith E Daughter  aged 5 born  South Shields Durham 
POINTER, Georgina Daughter  aged 2 born  South Shields Durham   

 
RG number:RG13 Piece:4736 Folio:44 Page:20     
 
She is the only Georgina Pointer/Poynter that I can find on the 1901 who would be of the right age (19) to be Frances's mother. she also has a sister named Frances.

Is there anyone still alive who tell you any of your gran's siblings names? That might help in confirming this is your Georgina.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 04 February 11 15:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Blondie,

Using the FreeBMD
http://www.freebmd.org.uk
&
Free to Search 1911
http://www.1911census.co.uk

3 Georgina Poynter came up

1868 Eton (Buckingham)
1887 Stood (Kent)
1902 W. Derby (Lancashire)

You say your grandmother was born 1920, it's very possible that the Georgina Poynter born 1902 could be her mother

Using the 1911 free search facility in the same household as Georgina are Mary POYNTER 1874, Elizabeth Catherine 1895, Violet Agnes 1899  Daisy 1907

Do any of these names mean anything to you.

They are on the 1901 census living 26, Bibbys Lane, Bootle Cum Linacre, father James H born 1873 Liverpool occ Gen. Lab., Mary wife born Ireland Elizabeth & Violet born Bootle Lancashire
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Ladyhawk on Friday 04 February 11 15:07 GMT (UK)
Oldtimer

I would say your 1901 census find looks promising POYNTER spelt with an 'I' not 'Y'  :)

FreeBMD

Georgina POINTER
Sep q 1898 S. Shields 10a 773
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: blondie11 on Friday 04 February 11 15:18 GMT (UK)
thank you every one !!!

Oldtimer there is no one to ask, accourding to my mum, the subject of my gramdmas (nannies) family was never talked about, we have always got the impression that there was something 'off' about things, we do know that my nannie did have a sister but have never known her name. i get the feeling there is something of a scandle out there to be uncoverd !!

p.s am very impressed wth all this info, i must not be accessing the right sites, they havn't given me any where near this much info
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: wrjones on Friday 04 February 11 15:19 GMT (UK)
Quite frankly I didn't fancy any of the Georgina Poynters I founnd.However there is an interesting birth of a Georgina Pointer in 1898 in the South Shields District of Durham,Jul/Aug/Sep quarter,Volume 10a,Page 773.

There is also an interesting marriage of a Georgina Pointer in South Shields in 1924 to a Francisco P Leon.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: wrjones on Friday 04 February 11 15:28 GMT (UK)
There is a possible sibling for Frances a Frank born in 1922 which makes the name of the man Georgina Pointer married look very interesting.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: wrjones on Friday 04 February 11 15:34 GMT (UK)
This could be the winning smack!There is also the birth of a Frank Leon in 1922 whose mother's maiden name is given as Poynter.

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: oldtimer on Friday 04 February 11 15:38 GMT (UK)
well done William  :D

That looks promising

Judy
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: wrjones on Friday 04 February 11 15:41 GMT (UK)
You will have to excuse my colourful description!

Regards
William Russell Jones.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: jorose on Friday 04 February 11 16:18 GMT (UK)
The boy Frank died in 1923 - but his birth is listed under both Poynter and Leon, suggesting that both parents were on the birth certificate but not married. His death is registered as "Frank Leon". There is also a sister after the marriage (mmn "Pointer") but as she may still be living I'll point you at freebmd.rootsweb.com/ and leave it at that. ;)

A Georgina Leon d. in 1927 aged 29 and Francisco Leon d. aged 57 in 1928, both South Shields; does this fit with what you know about your Grandma's childhood?

It is possible, looking at freebmd and considering his age at death, that Francis/Francisco was first married in 1903 to a Josephine Hendrickson, with four children of whom three died young, followed by Josephine passing away in 1920.

I would try to get the Leon/Pointer marriage certificate, but also the marriage certificate of your grandma, to see whether she perhaps mentions a father (she may have assumed/been told that Francisco Leon was her father, or she might have put down another name from what she'd heard from family), or whether any other members of the Leon or Poynter/Pointer family were witnesses.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: blondie11 on Friday 04 February 11 16:37 GMT (UK)
wow all this info, i am truly amazed, i have had very little family of my own, no father, brothers or sisters, just my mums parents, mum and me, and my own children, so all this is wanderfull, how do you find all this out i have not had any where near this much success, joined ancestory for my free 2 wk trial, but even then you lot so much better
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Annie65115 on Friday 04 February 11 18:43 GMT (UK)
Frank Poynter, b 1922 S Shields, and Frank Leon b same quarter, are probably the same person. I understand that when the parents were unmarried but paternity was not in dispute, as long as the father was there for the birth registratio, 2 certificates would be issued, one in each parental surname.

(Someone here will say if I've got that wrong!)
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Annie65115 on Friday 04 February 11 18:45 GMT (UK)
Blondie, have you tried using the freeBMD site?

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

if you're not sure how to get the best out of it, just ask!
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: blondie11 on Friday 04 February 11 20:04 GMT (UK)
annie yes have been on tonight, feeling like this is really coming together, would help if the surname would stay the same, keeps changing from poynter to pointer !!
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: jorose on Friday 04 February 11 20:44 GMT (UK)
You'd be right, Annie, about it being the same person.  However, there is only one certificate, indexed twice, not two certificates-- if you look at a birth certificate there is no field for the child's surname, only the first name(s) of the child and the full names of the parents, so what it is indexed under is the presumed surname. 

If the parents are married, this is the father's surname.
If there is only a mother listed, this is the mother's surname.
If both parents are listed but they are not given as married, then it is indexed under both surnames.

This is also why sometimes entries for compound surnames get multiple entries, e.g. a James William Smith-Jones might be found as both Jones, James William Smith, and Smith-Jones, James William
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Bryany on Tuesday 17 January 12 14:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Blondie11,

I have just started looking for my Grandmothers sister Georgina Poynter and have found your search for your Great Grandmother.
It looks very much like this is a match!!

My Grandmother was Violet Agnes,her sisters were Elizabeth,Daisy and Georgina from Bootle Liverpool.

Georgina left Home and became one of the first Windmill Girls in London.
I have letters/photos sent by Georgina to her Mother (Mary Poynter) and her Sisters.

Please reply soon.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 17 January 12 17:51 GMT (UK)

I have just started looking for my Grandmothers sister Georgina Poynter and have found your search for your Great Grandmother.
It looks very much like this is a match!!

My Grandmother was Violet Agnes,
her sisters were Elizabeth,Daisy and Georgina from Bootle Liverpool.


Hello Bryany and welcome to rootschat,

Is this your Great Grandmother Violet ?

Baptism St Leonard Bootle 1 Feb 1899
Violet Agnes Poynter born 3 Dec 1898
Abode 69 Hood St.
Parents James Henry Poynter occ. Labourer & Mary

1901c RG13; Piece: 3462; Folio: 154; Page: 10
26 Biddy Lane Bottle, Lancashire
James H Poynter age 28 Liverpool Lancs occ. Genral Labourer
Mary wife 27 Ireland
Elizabeth C dau. 6
Violet A dau. 2 Bottle Lancashire
Thomas F Kelly cousin  9 Liverpool
Ann Fleet boarder 20

By the look of things Blondie 11 has not made any other post since Feb 11, hopefully she will make contact.

There is a PM (personal message ) system on Rootschat that you can use if you want to send more personal details nobody else can view only the person you send the message too.

You will have to make a few more posts first (at least three) before you can use the PM system, once you do this you will see a green schroll light up under the persons name just click on that and off you go.

If you reply back to this you will have made two - also if you require any help with census information on the Poynter family please ask

 :)
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Bryany on Tuesday 17 January 12 19:43 GMT (UK)
Wow Thank you very much! Violet Agnes is my Grandmother.
Im interested in tracing the sisters, georgina, Daisy and i know about Elizabeth (Lilly) and violet. I wasnt aware of Jessie and James, interested to find out more.

I didnt expect an answer so detailed, youve helped a lot as i have just started my search.

I will have to make a third post to gain contact with Blondie 11.

Thanks a lot  :)
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Bryany on Tuesday 17 January 12 19:47 GMT (UK)
How does this work once i have made three posts. Were do i go from here?
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: suziq on Tuesday 17 January 12 20:00 GMT (UK)
Hi
To send a private message to Blondie you just click on the scroll underneath their name (in the margin area).
Keep letting everyone know what you need help with and hey presto someone is normally around to help out!!!!
Good luck
Suziq
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 17 January 12 20:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Bryany,

Glad the info. I sent via PM was of interest

suzig has also given you directions on how to use the PM system so you can now contact blondie 11 as you've made the require number of posts.

I have given you the census details back to 1891 for James Henry Poynter & family, his marriage date & the baptism of all children apart from Daisie b1907 which I couldn't find  ???

1881 census is free to search so you should find James here with his family using the details from 1891 census I sent

http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp

If you want to try and find out if any of the children you don't know about married you could try using FreeBMD

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/

the girls were born in Lancashire so you may get lucky with Lancashire OPC & BMD or Cheshire BMD

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/marriages.php

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi?county=cheshire

If you want to order any birth or marriage certificates this can be done from Lancashire BMD or via GRO cost £9.25 not sure if Lancashire BMD is cheaper

http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp

If this is all a bit much to begin with as suziq said just reply and ask and we'll see what we can do

 :)



Title: Re: Georgina Poynter,my Nan's Sister.
Post by: Bryany on Tuesday 17 January 12 21:10 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for all this help,can't believe how far i have got,thanks.

Reading the thread on Blondies search do you think my great aunt Georgina is her Grt Grandmother??

Thanks Bryany.
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 17 January 12 21:15 GMT (UK)
Hello again Bryany,

Forgot to say do not post anything about people known to be living

Here's a bit more information on father James & mother Mary

James Henry Pointer
Birth Date: 30 Dec 1872
Baptism Date: 12 Jan 1873 Parish: St Peter Liverpool
f George Pointer occ Labourer m Elizabeth

James H Poynter  Oct-Nov-Dec 1963 died age 90
Registration district: Liverpool North Lancashire Volume: 10d Page: 179

Mary Keogh
Date of Registration: 1874
Registration district: Granard  Ireland Volume: 8 Page: 222
FHL Film Number: 101051

Mary Keogh age 7 can be found on 1881 with her parents & siblings
father Wm H Keogh 34 Builder’s Clerk, mother Kate 24 sisters Agnes 4 & Julia 8mths Liverpool all others born Ireland - RG11; Piece: 3679; Folio: 56; Page: 45

1891 RG12; Piece: 2972; Folio 132; Page 57
46 Church Street Bootle
Mary KEOGH Head single age 18 Dressmaker Ireland
Agnes sister 13 Ireland
Julia sister 11 Bootle
William H brother 7 Bootle


I wasnt aware of Jessie and James, interested to find out more


not sure that you will find anymore info. on Jessie & James other than what I have given you but just in case someone else can help here are the details

Jessie died age 5  burial  7 Mar 1910 St Mary Bootle abode 26 Campbell Street Bootle

Bapt. St. Leonard Bootle 29 Jun 1904
Jessie Adelaide POYNTER born 16 Apr 1904
Abode 7 Spencer St. father James occ Mariner m Mary

perhaps someone may be able to give you more details of James death

Bapt. St. Leonard Bootle 5 May 1897
James Henry POYNTER born 5 Apr 1897
Abode 69 Hood St f James Henry occ Labourer m Mary

James Henry POYNTER died age 0 Jun qtr. 1897 West Derby vol 8b page 312

Let us know if you want to try and go back further with more census info. on either family


Title: Re: Georgina Poynter,my Nan's Sister.
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 17 January 12 21:30 GMT (UK)
Many thanks for all this help,can't believe how far i have got,thanks.

Reading the thread on Blondies search do you think my great aunt Georgina is her Grt Grandmother??


 
Blondie 11 says

My Grandmar was Frances Poynter Born in South Shields 14.10.20  Her mother was Georgina Poynter the address on b.cert was 55 Stainton street south shields, no father documented


Reading through not quite sure that it's been established if it's the same Poynter family as yours
her grandmother born in South Shields - Do you know of any family links with this area?

Hopefully Blondie 11 can clear that up - just about to go off line but will have another look tomorrow  :)


Title: Re: Georgina Poynter,my Nan's Sister.
Post by: Bryany on Tuesday 17 January 12 21:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks Again! ;)
Title: Re: finding my g-grandmar
Post by: dawnsh on Tuesday 17 January 12 22:24 GMT (UK)
Hi Bryany

According to the profile, Blondie hasn't been online here since February 2011.

As long as their emaill address hasn't changed and they haven't switched off notifications, they should get email messages letting them know we have posted here and fingers crossed, come back soon.

Dawn
Title: Re: Poynter.
Post by: Bryany on Wednesday 18 January 12 13:34 GMT (UK)
Hi Dawn,

Yes I hope so! Fingers crossed.

Bry. :)