RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Cork => Topic started by: skarm on Tuesday 01 February 11 00:12 GMT (UK)
-
Greetings,
I am relatively new to Irish genealogy and wondering if I could have some advice. This situation is, perhaps, quite unique, but I would be grateful for any help.
My ancestor John DAVIS, who was born in England, was a soldier with the 81st Regiment of Foot from the late 1840s until the mid 1870s. The 18st Regiment was shipped to Ireland for garrison duty in the early 1850s in which they were to depart for India. They stopped in Fermoy for a month where John married one Jane SHERLOCK, the daughter of Peter Sherlock, on 18 June 1853. As they were Protestant their marriage is Indexed and stored in the Irish Registrar Office in Dublin.
There was another Sherlock girl, Mary, who married in 1848 which was also a Protestant marriage and registered in Fermoy district (not necessarily Fermoy itself). I do not know the relation if any.
However, when John was finished with his military duty he returned to England and settled in Surrey. On the 1881 England Census Jane's birth location is recorded as Saint Helena island in the Atlantic. I have searched the Saint Helena birth registrations for the time period and have not found any Sherlocks.
John does not appear to have married a second time (to another woman named Jane), but that is possible. I know that Fermoy was a military garrison at the time, and it is possible that Peter Sherlock, Jane's father, was also in the military and had his daughter on Saint Helena, also a military base.
-> Should I request a full certificate from the Ireland General Registrar Office? This should list Jane's father Peter's occupation to see if there's a military connection.
-> Does anyone know of a Sherlock family or families from the Fermoy area?
-> I believe the church John and Jane were married in is called Christchurch. Is it worth sending a letter to the current vicar? Do you typically get replies from Irish churches by using this method, or is it better to potentially find a native genealogist who can visit in person.
-> Since it is possible that Jane is not an Irishwoman at all, and both families are military, is there any specific resources anyone knows of for military garrisons in Ireland, or sources in general that I am not thinking of for military families of UK soldiers in Ireland?
Thank you for your help in advance. It is a giant puzzle I am trying to solve. I have so many places: Gloucestershire, Fermoy, Co. Cork, Saint Helena, India... Gibraltar... etc. Any help would be vastly appreciated from those of you with a lot more Irish genealogy experience than myself. :)
Best regards,
Mike
-
Wow - I'm impressed. Not sure if I can help you much here, but the Cobh Genealogical Project is working on computerizing all available Church of Ireland records they have for Cork. They would probably be the ones to tell you if there were Sherlocks in Fermoy.
http://www.cork.anglican.org/resources/genealogy.html
If there were Catholic Sherlocks in the area, Mallow Heritage Centre would probably know:
http://www.mallowheritagecentre.com/
Before you invest any $$$ doing that, you might want to check Griffiths in case Peter Sherlock was holding a lease on property (1840's-1860's timeframe). I see one Peter in Dublin. In Ireland it was usually the case the groom went to the bride's residence to get married.
http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/
The tithe applotment land valuation goes back further (1820's-1830's). The surveys are also organized by civil parish. Some of the civil parishes around Fermoy may have been transcribed and published online. Check this page:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~mturner/cork/a_tithes.htm
This page contains a little bit about Fermoy and includes a list of civil parishes relevant to the union.
http://www.corkgen.org/publicgenealogy/cork/placesalmanac/fermoy/
Lastly, you may want to peruse here, some Irish church records online:
http://www.irishgenealogy.ie/
What is available is rather haphazard, but holds Dublin C of I records. Cork records are Catholic only, with more due to come online. Check the Cobh project for info on the Cork C of I records.
After you've trawled all the free stuff and think you need to do it, by all means send to GRO for a record. :)
Sorry I don't know a thing about Irish in the military and where one would go to find their records.
Hope this helps somehow...
-
Thanks for the reply. :)
I will certainly check out the land records to see if there were any Sherlocks owning property in the area.
The problem with the typical "bride's parish is the marriage locale" is that John Davis was stationed in Fermoy with his military regiment and as such could not travel to any location to get married. This either means that Jane was a local of Fermoy, the surrounding area, or was somehow attached to the garrison itself.
The problem further comes with the Saint Helena birth location listed on the 1881 Census because that rules out the Fermoy location.
I think failing finding Sherlocks in the area I'll send a letter to the church itself, and failing that I'll see if I can get a certificate from the GRO of Ireland.
This is almost as good as my "7 illegitimate children between 2 families that have around 12 children each and intermarried" situation... ::)
My relatives liked to keep things interesting. Thankfully I already have John's family traced back to his grandparents in Gloucestershire, and most of his children's lives down to John's own grandchildren traced. Jane's family is still elusive, though.
You've given me some good starting points. Thanks for the information!
Mike
-
The problem with the typical "bride's parish is the marriage locale" is that John Davis was stationed in Fermoy with his military regiment and as such could not travel to any location to get married. This either means that Jane was a local of Fermoy, the surrounding area, or was somehow attached to the garrison itself.
There is a rather similar situation in my family. My great grand uncle was an RIC constable. He was from sw Cork, the bride was from ring of Kerry. I had such a hard time finding their marriage record I had to enlist the aid of some sharp eyes on this board. Found it though - in Cork. They got married at St. Peter and Paul's, and from his RIC service record probably because he was stationed up there...
-
The problem with the typical "bride's parish is the marriage locale" is that John Davis was stationed in Fermoy with his military regiment and as such could not travel to any location to get married. This either means that Jane was a local of Fermoy, the surrounding area, or was somehow attached to the garrison itself.
There is a rather similar situation in my family. My great grand uncle was an RIC constable. He was from sw Cork, the bride was from ring of Kerry. I had such a hard time finding their marriage record I had to enlist the aid of some sharp eyes on this board. Found it though - in Cork. They got married at St. Peter and Paul's, and from his RIC service record probably because he was stationed up there...
Yeah, exactly. The biggest "worry" I have is that Jane is an Irishwoman who John met through his travels in Ireland. Jane might have followed him, and three days before he was due to ship to India they got married so she could accompany him. According to the index Jane was "of Fermoy", but if that was just her current address this could be quite difficult.
Your experience mirrors mine. I couldn't find the marriage record of John and Jane for years. I had checked India, Saint Helena, etc. and then eventually found a year by year history of the 81st, which confirmed John had been in Fermoy for a month when he married Jane (and in addition his father's name, Joseph, matched the marriage index extract).
I really don't know what my ideal situation would be in regards to Jane's family. But all I know is that this has been a great chase, and I have very much enjoyed tracing this branch of my family. :)
-
Hi there my name is Sarah Sherlock. We are originally from Kilbrin, Clash, Kanturk area but have other relatives scattered around Cork area. At present Iam following up on family tree links. I don't have any Peter Sherlock as of yet but there has been some unknown Sherlock births. Check out my family tree on http://www.myheritage.com
-
I know it is later that the period you are looking at but in the 1901 census Ireland
www.nationalarchives.ie/census there is a Barrack Return listing DJCE Sherlock in Fermoy
House 10.2 Barrack St East (Fermoy Urban Cork)
There are also several Shelocks listed in the Mitchelstown area which is not far from Fermoy. :)
-
If Jane Sherlocks father was in the military also there is the following which may be helpful.
Peter Sherlock. The Indian Mutiny Medal Roll (British Forces) 64th Foot (2nd Staffordshire)
1857-1859 :)
-
If Jane Sherlocks father was in the military also there is the following which may be helpful.
Peter Sherlock. The Indian Mutiny Medal Roll (British Forces) 64th Foot (2nd Staffordshire)
1857-1859 :)
Sorry that I did not notice this earlier -- apparently my notifications to replies were set incorrectly. That is something to check out because the 81st Regiment, John Davis' regiment, was also involved in the Indian Mutiny, and had children born with Jane there. Even if said Peter Sherlock was not Jane's father, he could be a brother or other relative.
Thank you! I will definitely follow and inquire into Peter Sherlock's military history. :)
-
Already this proves interesting. I thank you again:
From the Wikipedia Article on the 64th Regiment of foot:
"It was to be 1856 before the regiment found itself on active service again. In the interim there had been a short spell in England, a long posting in Gibraltar, several years in Ireland, another six year tour in the West Indies..."
From the post-Napoleon era. It states it was in Ireland, and traversed the Atlantic with possible stops at St. Helena (Jane was born there circa 1834). Interesting, interesting... :)
-
Can you advise where you got your information regarding the 81st Foot Regiment. My GGG Grandfather Robert Brown was in this regiment, he was court martialed in Roscommon Ireland (don't know what for) and sent to Australia, is there any way I can find out more about him and his marriage as he was probably moving around with the military. His wife was a Frances Kelly, she and the 7 children sailed out of Cork Ireland on board the Sir Joseph Banks, landing in Australia in 1828, following her husband out who had arrived in 1826 on board the Sir Geoffrey Webster. Any assistance greatly appreciated. Thanks, GEOLAW
-
Hi,
There are still Sherlocks in the Fermoy/Mitchelstown! Google Search shows One is a local councillor, he may not be connected but there's no harm in inquiring if thats any help to you!
-
Sent that message without finishing! You are more than likely on the right track in assuming that Jane was born in Saint Helena. A similar story in my family, have relatives that were born in Gibralter, Malta etc.. Their Father was also in the British army but a native of Fermoy. I will mail you with an idea of how you might be able to get more help.
-
I am also experiencing some difficulty researching a Robert Brown who died in 1951 in Paddington, NSW, Australia. The Robert Brown I am researching had a son Charles William Brown (Abt 1810 – 1856) and in the death notice in “The Colonial Times” 7th November, 1851 it states that Robert Brown was “a Sergeant in the 81st Regiment and father of Charles William Brown, Compositor). This sounds very close to yours and may be worth us discussing in further detail.
Regards,
Paul :)