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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Free Photo Restoration & Date Old Photographs => Topic started by: genjen on Monday 31 January 11 19:20 GMT (UK)

Title: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Monday 31 January 11 19:20 GMT (UK)
I have just been sent this photograph from a contact who thinks that it could be my 2 x great grandparents. It is very unclear but if you clever people could do anything at all to improve it and maybe give me a date for it, I'd be very grateful.

Jen :)
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: chinakay on Monday 31 January 11 20:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Jen :)

Have you cropped this, or is this the way it was sent?

Looks like late 1870s, with the ruffled skirt and the braided chignon hairstyle high on the head, approaching the cleaner look of the 1880s bodice with its line of buttons. Maybe about 1878-1880.

Haven't seen much of the doily thing on the ladies' heads, sort of a day cap....unusual as are the ladies' aprons. The photo looks like it's been "improved" at some time.

Would the date fit? What sort of work did this fellow do?

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: Lynntony on Monday 31 January 11 20:51 GMT (UK)
There's a face behind the left shoulder of the man that I couldn't pick out! Quite spooky at first when I noticed a hand on his shoulder that didn't seem to  belong to anyone! And what I thought was a table-lamp turned out to be a very faint image of a face. Also, eyes painted on the woman on the right of the pic reminded me of those post-mortem photos
Sorry, this was the best I could do with this one

Tony
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: chinakay on Monday 31 January 11 22:27 GMT (UK)
Oh my goodness, you're right....and you can see her bodice too.
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: geniecolgan on Monday 31 January 11 23:19 GMT (UK)
It's an older lady!
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Monday 31 January 11 23:24 GMT (UK)
This is how it was sent to me and yes, I could make out the 'ghost' in the background.

If it is the family we think it is, then mid/late 1870s would make sense because I believe it was taken in a Middlesbrough studio and I know that they lived in there at the time of the 1871 census but had moved back to the Dales by 1881. The daughter ( the one with the post mortem eyes) married in Middlesbrough some time in the December quarter of 1875.

The man, if it is my 2 x great grandfather, was, on most censuses, a farmer or an Ag Lab but when they moved to Middlesbrough, it would seem that he was trying his luck in the iron and steel industry. Without success, it would appear, as they went back to Bedale and stayed there!

I wonder if the strange doily headwear was a regional thing from the dales. We need to ask Pels...it's her neck of the woods! ;D

Thanks for trying, I know it is not a good photograph to work on.

Jen :)

Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Monday 31 January 11 23:26 GMT (UK)
It's an older lady!

Oh struth, Genie...I think it's me mother!! ;D ;D ;D

If the seated couple are my 2x greats, maybe she is a 3 x great granny!
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: geniecolgan on Monday 31 January 11 23:34 GMT (UK)
Well no wonder she looks pale  ;D
What's with the apron he's wearing?
Where is that Pels when we need her ?

Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Monday 31 January 11 23:47 GMT (UK)
The apron is certainly a bit strange. It seems to be either fringed or just very frayed around the edges. Apart from butchers, what sort of profession involved the man wearing an apron. Maybe it's not my g.g. grandad after all, though his wife is very like my grandmother facially and we know that the girl with the spooky eyes is part of our family.

Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: Lynntony on Tuesday 01 February 11 00:27 GMT (UK)

Quote
Apart from butchers, what sort of profession involved the man wearing an apron

The only thing that springs to mind is an inn keeper.

Tony
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: danuslave on Tuesday 01 February 11 02:11 GMT (UK)
Didn't grocers and people like that wear them too?  Anyone involved in measuring out loose 'stuff' that might mark their clothes   :)

Linda
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: chinakay on Tuesday 01 February 11 02:12 GMT (UK)
Shopkeepers in general?
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: cazza59 on Tuesday 01 February 11 08:14 GMT (UK)
A very quick play until you can hopefully get a better scan.

Caroline
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: duckboy on Tuesday 01 February 11 09:18 GMT (UK)
The aprons are baffling. the younger lady is wearing what appears to be a cloth tucked into her waistband or belt.  The man appears to be have a ladies shawl wrapped around his waist, maybe he is trying to hide something a stain or something or he has just left his trousers at home. As this appears to be a studio portrait is seems strange that they are wearing aprons so maybe they represent a trade or business.
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Tuesday 01 February 11 09:40 GMT (UK)
Thank you for all your suggestions and improvements, they are much appreciated.

I went to bed with another question in my mind.

What age do you think these people are? I'm not going to say what I think until you have had a chance to comment but I do know what age they ought to be in the late 1870s, if they are the people we would like them to be.

I have another photograph of the young woman, which also has its eyes poked out. Why would anyone do that? I'll post that one as well....see what you think.

Jen
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Tuesday 01 February 11 10:12 GMT (UK)
Here she is. The contact who sent me these photographs thinks that this is the same person as the young woman on the right of the first photograph. Looking again, I'm not convinced. But we do know for certain who this one is because it is named on the back with her maiden name and both of her married names. She is my great grandfather's sister.
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: maidmarianoops on Tuesday 01 February 11 11:26 GMT (UK)
seems like a mans face i can make out eye and ear on man in middle

is it a lady sitting at the back of the man
sylvia
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: maidmarianoops on Tuesday 01 February 11 11:52 GMT (UK)
hope this helps
i think she looks like the lady on the right

sylvia
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: Tephra on Tuesday 01 February 11 11:59 GMT (UK)



Just a thought but......... they are all three well dressed, very smart looking, yet he has a ratty apron...   could it be some sort of ceremonial apron??   
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: chinakay on Tuesday 01 February 11 16:05 GMT (UK)
I was wondering the same thing...like maybe a Mason apron? But Mason aprons, while some of them do have fringes, are not this kind of shape and have embroidered symbols on them.

I don't think the eyes are "poked out"...they may have been enhanced by the photographer. Usually seen in postmortem photos, but not necessarily.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: Tephra on Wednesday 02 February 11 00:02 GMT (UK)



Hi China....... they do look too well dressed for him to be wearing a ratty apron.   I'd say in the general scheme of things, it does have some significance..... what, I have no idea!!
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Wednesday 02 February 11 17:59 GMT (UK)
Last night I was with a friend who has a collection of books on costume/ clothes etc throughout history. I'm going to email the photograph to her to see if she can help with the apron. She did suggest that mason's aprons were fringed so that is an option but one which rules out the possibility of this man being my ancestor.

Are we now looking at two ghostly faces behind the seated man?
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 02 February 11 18:03 GMT (UK)
The other one looks like an oil spot I think Jen.

If you go to Google Images and enter Mason apron you'll get a fine array of various styles.

Cheers,
China
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: Treetotal on Wednesday 02 February 11 18:55 GMT (UK)
It's not a Masonic apron...it's too big and plain...they often have a square and compass on them or the Lodge/Order Initials and colours...and have an envelope flap.
Carol
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 02 February 11 19:11 GMT (UK)
Yes, that's what I was thinking too.
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: genjen on Wednesday 02 February 11 19:13 GMT (UK)
I'll take your word for it! :D

It is a very odd shape, isn't it?

Did anyone have any thoughts about how old they are?
Title: Re: Can anyone make it clearer please.
Post by: chinakay on Wednesday 02 February 11 19:30 GMT (UK)
35ish? Hard to tell really, isn't it?