RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: mosher on Sunday 30 January 11 12:03 GMT (UK)
-
I am having trouble tracking an ancestor and it is making me cross-eyed, so I am hoping someone may be able to help!
I started with a marriage between William Thomas Price & Kate Foster. I don't have the marriage cert, but they married 28 Dec 1907 (date in family bible).
I found Kate on the 1911 census (but not her hubby) with a child of 2 months, Annie. They had had 2 previous children, both died in infancy. In 1911, Kate is listed as 23, born in Wigan.
I found her on numerous trees on Ancestry, with parents as William Foster & Jane Rebecca Scott. I then found a baptism for a Kate Foster, stating she was born 4 Aug 1887 to William & Jane Rebecca Foster.
I can find the family on 1901,1891 & 1881 censuses. William is stated to be a Stone Mason and born in Wigan.
There is a marriage on the Lancashire records website between William Foster (stone mason) & Jane Rebecca Scott on 20 Oct 1872 in Orsmkirk, which I checked and is reasonably close to Wigan.
Now this is where we could be going astray. On the marriage it says William’s father is Jonathan Foster, deceased. All the trees on Ancestry have a different father – Peter Foster with Mary Hussey as mother.
I can find a family with a Jonathan Foster (stone mason), wife Ann and son Robert in 1841. In 1851, the family seems to be the same with some extra children inc William, but the wifes name is Nancy. Is Nancy a variant of Ann?
There is a Jonathan Foster burial in 1852, which appears to be this one, as is says he lived in Millgate same as on the censuses.
I can’t find them in 1861, but in 1871 there is a family that is very close to them, but the birth places are stated to be Upholland rather than Wigan. Ann is a widow, but there are children that are too young to have been Jonathans. Plus William & brother Thomas’ ages are out but William is a stone mason. This could be the wrong family altogether.
I contacted one of the trees that had the different parents. She asked her cousin or something and he replied that I had the wrong William Foster. Could there possibly be 2 William Fosters that married Jane Rebecca Scotts that were stone masons in Lancashire around that time?
There is a marriage for a Jonathan Foster, stone mason, to an Ann Bentley 23 Nov 1837 in Wigan. Jonathan’s father is Robert also a stone mason. Both were aged 22 (so both born 1815).
Am I going mad? (don't answer that...) Can anyone find William in 1861 & 1871? By 1881 he was married and findable from there. Also, in 1881 there is a widow called Ann aged 66 (which fits with the Ann that married Jonathan above) living with the family next door, also Fosters and the head is Thomas (possibly William’s brother? There is son called Jonathan).
I feel quite certain that I am on the right track but because it is so confusing and nothing seems clear I am not 100% sure. Can anyone help find the right path through this Foster mess?
(BTW none of the trees with Peter & Mary as parents have any sources to back them up)
Many thanks
Mosher
-
If I was you I would forget everyone else's trees etc and start again working backwards one step at a time.
First I would obtain a copy of the marriage certificate. The marriage according to www.lancashirebmd.org.uk took place at St George's church Wigan. Depernding on were you live you could look up this marriage on film at Wigan History Shop or buy a copy either from Wigan register office or from the GRO.
Once you have that copy you will have the names of both parties fathers and their occupations. You will also have the bridegroom's occupation. Then you need to look for them on the relevant census.
At the moment you have no proof and although the trees you have found may be correct I'd want proof.
Gibel
-
Hi Gibel,
Thanks for the reply. Do you mean I should buy William & Jane Rebecca's marriage certificate? If so, then all that info is available on http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
It gives both fathers names & occupations, plus the grooms occupation (all stated above). The issue I guess is whether there is another couple with the same names.
I am not basing my research on other trees (altho I do look at them, sometimes they are right), but I do like to verify what I use. Hence my frustration with this one as nothing seems to click in. I detailed my journey through the censuses above also.
Mosher
-
Sorry Gibel, where did you find the marriage was at St Georges in Wigan? I have it at St Peter and St Paul, Ormskirk which is what comes up when I look at the lancashirebmd site.
Mosher
PS I am in Australia. :D
-
Sorry I meant you need William Thomas Price to Kate Foster marriage certificate. That's the one you say you haven't got. That'll give you the proof that you are following the correct families.
Gibel
-
I am quite confident I have the right Kate - it is William and earlier that is causing the problem.
Mosher
-
I don't understand - if you don't have the marriage certificate then you don't have the information you will need to follow either William or Kate backwards since you won't know for certain their occupations, addresses, ages or father's names and occupations, all you would be doing is guessing.
Not only is it good practice to work by certificates but the information they hold is essential to your research.
How do you know that all those trees on Ancestry have been sourced correctly - or have they found a marriage, decided to claim it for their own and post the details all over the world, without knowing if they are correct or not.
-
Ok thank you for your help.
-
Can I just add that I DON'T use other trees as my sources, as I have said. I am sure everyone looks at other trees that have the same people in. Many times they are wrong, in fact my own tree on Ancestry has many errors as I haven't used it for a long time, but if anyone copies from it, more fool them.
I am waiting on the Price/Foster marriage cert. But there is only one Kate Foster born in Wigan around that time, so as I have said I am fairly confident she is the right one.
I am a bit sorry I posted now. I know some people love untangling messes and I thought they might like this challenge.
-
If you read what I said I didn't accuse you of using another tree as a source, but that they may not have sources for their trees - totally the other way around.
Yes we do enjoy untangling messes, but we need to work from facts rather than guesses.
-
From my original post:
(BTW none of the trees with Peter & Mary as parents have any sources to back them up)
-
Hi all,
Mosher, I definitely think the 1871 family is not the same one as you found in 1851.
Tracing the widowed Ann from Upholland back, the family are at RG9/2784 11 15 in 1861 and HO107/2201 31 13 in 1851.
The 1881 census shows a William Foster born Upholland ca. 1853, married to an Elizabeth. He's likely to be the one you found in 1871 - mother Ann is living next door. (RG11/3782 6 5)
I can find a family with a Jonathan Foster (stone mason), wife Ann and son Robert in 1841. In 1851, the family seems to be the same with some extra children inc William, but the wifes name is Nancy. Is Nancy a variant of Ann?
Yes, Nancy can well be Ann.
I'm not having any luck tracing Nancy/Ann in 1861 or 1871 either :(
-
1871: Class: RG10; Piece: 3886; Folio: 85; Page: 21
There is an Ann Forster with son William (1849) + Charles very near to Henry Scott who would be a good candidate for Jane's father.
Lancashire BMD has Charles Foster 1856 mother's name Bentley
Jane seems to be in Ormskirk on her own.
-
Thanks Tati & Deryckjohn!
Tati, I guess that shows that there WERE 2 William Fosters who were stone masons, however the other didn't marry a Jane Rebecca Scott.
Deryckjohn, thank you for finding that! Generally the search will pick up close spellings but for some reason amongst all my tries, I never found that one! That would be them, and Henry (bootmaker) is stated to be Jane's father on the marriage on the Lan website.
I have been going through the Norfolk parish registers, but they are not searchable, and there were so many churches in Norwich! Hopefully I will eventually find Jane.
Thanks again!
Mosher
-
www.freereg.org.uk have a lot of Norfolk registers on their site
Gibel
-
Well, thanks to the fabulous UK service in sending certificates, I can now confirm that Kate's father was William Foster, mason.
I ordered the certificate on 31 Jan, and got it today (8 Feb) and I am in Australia! That is quite amazing service! We don't even get our own certificates that quick!
Mosher