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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: Fdgl65 on Saturday 29 January 11 16:36 GMT (UK)
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I have been told by family that this photograph was taken during WW2. The uniform doesn't look right for that era. Can anyone help in identifying it for me?
Much appreciated ;D
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It looks more like 1930s to me possibly a TA Royal Horse Artilleryman
Ady
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hi fdgl65
i,m with you it look slike a between wars photo although wilf uniform looks more ww1 with the putees and all and catherine looks more 1930,s but as a meer man what do i know ;D , do you have any more info on either of them such as dates or places of birth anything may help .
trevor
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Was it a wedding photo?
If so, he may have asked a tailor to run up a better quality jacket so he would look smarter.
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What was their date and place of marriage?
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No Great War Ribbons...between the wars
Ady
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Some TA and secondary units wore the 1922ptn SD uniform up to 1941...In fact the CMP wore it throughout the war...
Many pics of the Dunkirk evacuation show troops disembarking show loads of them in this kit...
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The coat is Astrakhan...
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It is indeed a wedding photograph and I suspect that it is a uniform that was made to look at bit more special for the occasion. I have another photo of him (attached) where he is wearing a normal looking army uniform without the puttees and peaked cap. My husband did mention that he thought it was a specialised mounted (horse) artillery uniform but his period is Napoleonic so he suggested I ask better experts on here :) I agree that Catherine looks like she is wearing 1930s garb.
More info on this couple:
Wilf was born in 1918. I've found their wedding date (this morning) to be circa Dec 1939 in Yorkshire.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to reply.
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I came across the following information on a WW2 RHA board:
"A lot of the TA, RHA and RA, were still in Service Dress on the outbreak of war. In general this would consist of a peaked cap, service dress jacket, breeches or trousers, long puttees and ankle boots. Some had already changed to Battledress."
So, it does appear that he's wearing a TA/RHA uniform.
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Fdgl65, My father had been in France (St Nazaire) on 17th June 1940 and was married in Liverpool on 23 June 1940. I believe that he had asked a tailor to run him up a smart looking uniform to get married in. He was also wearing a smart looking cap like the one shown in your photo. I guess that they could either be bought from places like the Army and Navy stores or the quatermaster may issue one if a soldier was getting married. People would be prepared to bend the rules for a soldier getting married in wartime.
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That's kind of understandable. I am more inclined to ignore the uniform in the wedding photo and go off the uniform in the other photo as being a more reliable indicator of his actual army role.
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Both pictures are of the same uniform, 1922ptn Service Dress...One with breeches, one without...The trousers on the lower pic would be folded and the long puttees would be wound round them as well...
Fdgl65, My father had been in France (St Nazaire) on 17th June 1940 and was married in Liverpool on 23 June 1940. I believe that he had asked a tailor to run him up a smart looking uniform to get married in. He was also wearing a smart looking cap like the one shown in your photo. I guess that they could either be bought from places like the Army and Navy stores or the quatermaster may issue one if a soldier was getting married. People would be prepared to bend the rules for a soldier getting married in wartime.
The only soldiers who would use a tailor, or in fact be able to afford a tailor, or indeed go to the Army And Navy for a new uniform would be officers... Confusingly their uniform is also know as "Service Dress"
Other Ranks would be issued this uniform and some held on even after Battledress (BD) was issued
Pre war a lot soldiers got married in full dress, blues or scarlets
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..........any reason why his lanyard has swapped sides?
Milly
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Both pictures are of the same uniform, 1922ptn Service Dress...One with breeches, one without...The trousers on the lower pic would be folded and the long puttees would be wound round them as well...
Fdgl65, My father had been in France (St Nazaire) on 17th June 1940 and was married in Liverpool on 23 June 1940. I believe that he had asked a tailor to run him up a smart looking uniform to get married in. He was also wearing a smart looking cap like the one shown in your photo. I guess that they could either be bought from places like the Army and Navy stores or the quatermaster may issue one if a soldier was getting married. People would be prepared to bend the rules for a soldier getting married in wartime.
The only soldiers who would use a tailor, or in fact be able to afford a tailor, or indeed go to the Army And Navy for a new uniform would be officers... Confusingly their uniform is also know as "Service Dress"
Other Ranks would be issued this uniform and some held on even after Battledress (BD) was issued
Pre war a lot soldiers got married in full dress, blues or scarlets
Scouseboys reply:
What about the soldiers evacuated from France in May and June 1940. I believe that most of them abandoned their spare kit in France, they returned to the UK only with the clothes which they were wearing, and some of those they had been wearing for a week or more.
The administration and location of the Army was severely disrupted in June 1940. Command secretariats did not know where a lot of their men were located, either Missing, Captured, or repatriated to UK but location unknown. It took time to sort out the chaos.
Scouseboys reply ends.
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Sorry, can you see my reply in the middle of that?
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Sorry, can you see my reply in the middle of that?
Can now! ;) ;D
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The lanyard for the RA was originally worn on the left shoulder. Some say the change from the left shoulder to the right possibly took place circa the Great War when the ammunition bandolier was introduced, which was worn over the left shoulder. Others say that 1924 was the date of change due to rifles being positioned at the slope arms on the left shoulder which would soil the white lanyard. There is also a legend of it representing cowardice for a historical abandoning of the guns, but coming from a long line of Gunners I choose to ignore this! See http://www.thegarrison.org.uk/history/index.php for other info.
The uniforms shown were certainly in use by the BEF and if he was married Q4 1939, he may have been a pre-war regular or Terrier.
Regards,
Pete
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See http://www.thegarrison.org.uk/history/index.php for other info.
The uniforms shown were certainly in use by the BEF and if he was married Q4 1939, he may have been a pre-war regular or Terrier.
Regards,
Pete
I do not see the connection when you say he may have been a pre war regular or Terrier. He was just age 21 that would be a normal age for getting married. If he knew that he was getting transferred to France, surely that would be a factor in him deciding to get married before he marched off to war.
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What was the significance of the white lanyard? and on a later post on page one of this thread he was wearing the lanyard on his left shoulder, but on the original photo the lanyard was on his right shoulder.
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See http://www.thegarrison.org.uk/history/index.php for other info.
The uniforms shown were certainly in use by the BEF and if he was married Q4 1939, he may have been a pre-war regular or Terrier.
Regards,
Pete
I do not see the connection when you say he may have been a pre war regular or Terrier. He was just age 21 that would be a normal age for getting married. If he knew that he was getting transferred to France, surely that would be a factor in him deciding to get married before he marched off to war.
At age 21 in 1940, he could have joined up in 1937/8 at age 18....He could have joined as a boy at age 14/16...So he could have had the kit for ages if he was a regular....If he was a Terrier, he would have only been issued this kit, and not BD until later... ;)
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What was the significance of the white lanyard? and on a later post on page one of this thread he was wearing the lanyard on his left shoulder, but on the original photo the lanyard was on his right shoulder.
The lanyard for the RA was originally worn on the left shoulder. Some say the change from the left shoulder to the right possibly took place circa the Great War when the ammunition bandolier was introduced, which was worn over the left shoulder. Others say that 1924 was the date of change due to rifles being positioned at the slope arms on the left shoulder which would soil the white lanyard. There is also a legend of it representing cowardice for a historical abandoning of the guns, but coming from a long line of Gunners I choose to ignore this! See http://www.thegarrison.org.uk/history/index.php for other info.
The uniforms shown were certainly in use by the BEF and if he was married Q4 1939, he may have been a pre-war regular or Terrier.
Regards,
Pete
They were originally lanyards for jack knives in the infantry and for the drop shorts, they were used for bits of kit that could be dropped or lost such as the pokey thing that would clear the firing hole in cannons....
They became fancy as the troops were encouraged to do them in their spare time themselves, as the devil makes work for idle soldiers!!! ;D ;D ;D
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as far as I can see it, Soldiers getting married during WW2 were rather creative with the uniform regulations.