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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: RedMystic on Friday 28 January 11 17:28 GMT (UK)
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Hi all. I'm new to this discussion site, but it looks fascinating.
I'm looking for information on Bains and Cheynes. As far as I can tell, they originated in Aberdeenshire.
I have a Frederick Charles Malcom Bain, born about 1888 in Peterculter or Kingswell. His parents were Robert Bain (1858-1913) & Ann Henderson (b.1853). Frederick's grandfather was George Bain (b.1804) and Isabella (b.1823). Frederick and brothers: Robert, John, & James came to Saskatchewan, Canada. Brother Alexander perhaps went to the United States. Frederick had two other bothers, Edward (who died in infancy in Scotland) and Harry who died in Mains of Kimmundy.
Frederick married Mary Helen Cheyne (b.1886 in Peterhead- d.1967 in Saskatchewan). The marriage information I got indicates that they married in Saskatchewan, though it appears he came in spring 1909 and that she travelled later that year using the Bain surname. She was followed the next year (1910) by Helen Cheyne (1863 - 1952). In Canada, Helen was always introduced as Mary Helen's sister, but one of her daughters feels she was likely Mary Helen's mother.
Does anyone have any further information on these families, occupations, location of gravestones, etc?
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
In 1891 - Mary Helen was living with her grandfather in Tyrie
Alexander Murray 70 b Tyrie Aberdeen - farmer
Mary Hellen Cheyne 4 g/dtr b Tyrie Aberdeen
Tyrie ED 4 Page 4 Line 24
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1901 for Tyrie
John Cheyne 72 b Tyrie stone dyker
Helen Cheyne 73 wife b Methlick - also shown as Helen Ironside
Helen Cheyne 37 dtr b Methlick
Mary H Cheyne 14 g/dtr b New Pitsligo
Tyrie ED 4 Page 2 Line 1
HELEN CHEYNE Birth: 04 MAR 1863 Methlick, Aberdeen
Father JOHN CHEYNE Mother HELEN IRONSIDE
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I think Mary Helen was illegitimate but whether her mother was Helen - you need sight of her birth cert to get that info
It's possible her mother was Helen Cheyne but her father was ?? Murray hence the 1891 entry
Scotlands People is the website you need for her birth and any other BMD info but you will need to buy credits as it is a paysite www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
I have done a basic check and can't find a Bain/Cheyne marriage in Scotland pre-1909
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Much appreciated Carole W.
I have a portrait photo of Helen Ironside and John Cheyne. All the records show that Mary Helen was their grand daughter, so the task now is confirming who her mother was. I will try Scotlands People as you suggest.
I've never heard anything of the Alexander Murray you found as grandfather (perhpas paternal as you've suggested) in the 1891 census. Fantastic. Would it have been plausible that Helen Cheyne married, but never changed her name? It doesn't seem likley to me, and wouldn't explain why, if Helen were her child, that she wouldn't acknowledge her as that in Canada.
TX again.
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Hi
I don't think Helen would have married and still be known as Cheyne
Perhaps she wasn't her mother - just her aunt and Mary was the child of one of Helen's sisters??
This is the 1871 census - big gap in ages - I wonder if Helen was a second wife
John Cheyne 42 b Tyrie
Hellen 43 b Methlick
George 22 b Rayne
William 10 b Methlick
Ellen 8 b Methlick
Sarah 6 b Methlick
Jane 4 b Methlick
Mary Ann 3 b Savoc
New Pitsligo ED 4 Page 2 Line 25
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She certainly was
JOHN CHEYNE Spouse: HELEN IRONSIDE Marriage: 05 APR 1860 Methlick, Aberdeen
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I have a little of John Cheyne's marriage history.
He apparently married Ann Johnstone before 1848, but no formal record of that has been found. She had a child (George ??) and must have died before 1851 as John is listed as unmarried in that census.
John Cheyne had another son (Alexander??) with by Ann Duguid (unmarried) or Mary Duguid (unmarried) or Margaret Duguid (unmarried).
John Cheyne then married Helen Ironside in 1860.
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Hi Carole W
I sure appreciate your insight.
I should have added that the reason I'm so curious about Mary Helen (daughter or sister) and Helen (sister or mother) is that I have a bit of story detail on the Cheyne side of the family, just not when it comes to those two (which seems odd simply by its absence in the family story when other detail has been fairly forthcoming). I will continue to be curious - and will be sure to look up that Alexander Murray connection you found.
I'm sorely lacking on the Bain side. Frederick came over to Canada in 1909 as a "caregiver" for a stallion that he was delivering to someone on this side of the ocean and I have a picture of his parents, but that's about the extent of my info. I don't know if there was a connection between the Cheyne and Bain families beyond the Frederick's marriage to Mary Helen, or any other details.
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Another odd 1891 entry - the children are shown as the sons/daughters of William & Margaret but I suspect 2 households have been transcribed as one - addresses are different but no parents shown for Bain children and I can't find them as a separate entry
Mill of Brotherfield Peterculter
William Cruickshank 65 farmer b ?? Syrce Aberdeen
Margaret Cruickshank 52 b Crimond
Alex Cruickshank 31 b St Fergus
Wm Cruickshank 30 b St Fergus
Elizabeth Cruickshank 16 b St Fergus
Address Cromie Cottage Peterculter
Robert A B Bain 9 b Belhevie
Henry G Bain 5
James Bain 3 b Peterculter
Frederick C Bain 1 b Peterculter
Peterculter ED 4 Page 4 Line 1
1901 for Peterculter - Cromie Cottage
Robert Bain 43 tailor & grocer b Fovern
Ann 48 b Loch Cushnie?
John 20 b Behelvie
Harry 15 b Peterculter
James 13 b Peterculter
Fredrick 11 b Peterculter
Peterculter ED 5 Page 8 Line 2
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This is very odd. As far as I know we have no stories about Cruickshanks and I can't think of how or why they might have been raising the Bain children.
The boy's birthdays that I have are:
Alexander b.1880
Robert 1881-37 (so his record looks correct)
John 1881-1960 (he appears to be missing in 1891 census, but appears in 1901)
Harry 1886-1918 (possibly listed as Henry in 1891, and then correctly in 1901)
Fred 1888-1944 (record looks correct)
James 1888-1951 (record looks correct)
Edward, who died in infancy doesn't appeat in either list, which would be predictable given that death occurred around 1884.
Do you happen to know if the Mill of Brotherfield is in existence now? How about Cromie Cottage? I have a photo of a house in Kingswell that is marked as home of the Bains (no address), but can't figure out how or when that might play in.
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I don't think the Cruickshanks were involved
I suspect 2 households have been transcribed as one - addresses are different
You would need to view the full 1891 image on Scotlands People to see whether the parents are in the household but have been omitted from the transcription
It may be that Brotherfield Mill and Cromie Cottage were next door to each other hence the transcription error
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TX again CaroleW. You have set me off on a new fascinating exploration!
Brotherfield Mill still exists as an historic property, and the main home from the original mill site is currently for sale. I can find no record of Cromie Cottage, so perhaps it has been demolished.
Is there a census available for 1911 to determine if the parents, Robert & Ann, still lived at that site at that point? (I know son Fred left in 1909 and think the others did around the same time.)
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The Scottish 1911 won't be available until about April this year
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat
In 1891 - Mary Helen was living with her grandfather in Tyrie
Alexander Murray 70 b Tyrie Aberdeen - farmer
Mary Hellen Cheyne 4 g/dtr b Tyrie Aberdeen
Tyrie ED 4 Page 4 Line 24
I've got the birth record for Mary Helen Cheyne born 1886 in Tyrie. It lists Helen Cheyne as mother with occupation as domestic servant. No father listed and no record of anyone named Murray. Is there another way to track down the Alexander Murray connection?
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As Mary Helen was illegitimate - it may be that one of Alexander Murray's sons was her father
Trying to prove that could be a big problem as there is no fathers name on her birth cert
The 1891 details I posted are from a transcription only. A safe starting point would be to check the full image for that entry to confirm that she is definitely shown as grand daughter
The images are only available on Scotlands People
While you are doing that - I will check Alexander Murray back on earlier censuses
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1881 census shows sons John 15 and Charles 10 so we can rule them out
1871 - James 14 and William 6
1861 - George 11 and Alexander 7
Helen (senior) was born around 1862 so likely candidates would be James or William and my money's on William
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When I was very new to this site (just a few short months ago) I didn't realize that I should be putting all my queries about my Bains / Cheynes in the same thread. As a result, I started several threads dealing with different elements of the same families. My apologies for any frustration this caused those who worked on my various posted topics. I've compiled the threads and list them here in order to summarize the process / successes I've had thanks to all of you on RootsChat. A hearty thanks again for all the assistance.
My lost Bain boy: Alexander went to Michigan in 1906
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,523420.msg3783431.html#msg3783431
Bain & Cheyne Families
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,510123.msg3664463.html#msg3664463
Crommie Cottage – Home of Bains in Kingswell, Aberdeenshire
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,513012.msg3690405.html#msg3690405
Gravestone for Robert Bain / Ann Henderson, Kingswell
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,513016.msg3690423.html#msg3690423
Gravestone for John Cheyne / Helen Ironside
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,513021.msg3690440.html#msg3690440
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One more question (I hope that's all). In my Crommie Cottage thread GR2 generously provided the following message:
I had a look in the Mitchell Library today and have noted down the inscription on the Bain gravestone at Skene and its location. I also checked the Confirmations, so have details about the estates of Robert Bain, his son, Harry, and his wife, Ann Henderson. I also have a reference to a son in Canada. If you let me have your e-mail in a personal message, I'll send you the details.
Graham.
I'd like to lay my hands on similar "details about the estates", but for John Cheyne and his wife Helen Ironside. Is it possible for someone to do a similar look up for this branch of my family, or, alternatively let me know what that sort of lookup entails?
Thanks in advance for any assistance that can be provided.
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The Scottish 1911 won't be available until about April this year
Just wondering if this is now available. Does anyone know?
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Yes, the 1911 Scottish census is available (only on scotlandspeople website!)
flst
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Yes, the 1911 Scottish census is available (only on scotlandspeople website!)
flst
Thank you for your response fist. Cheers from Canada
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Hi, have just read your email. I have been doing other reserarch and just got back on my Scottish family. I have a Doug Cheyne born around 1917 he married an Edith Mitchell they had two sons, one of which I think moved to America. Not sure if this helps.
Pat in Oz
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Hi Patbarnes
It's great to hear from you. I just got back to Canada from a trip to Scotland where I was able to locate the headstone for my ggg grandfather / grandmother Cheyne as well as the home he in which he died.
My gg grandmother Cheyne came to Canada in 1910, but there seemed to be little if any contact with those left in Scotland. (She may have left under a cloud as she had an illegitimate daughter who sailed for Canada to marry my g grandfather in 1909. My gg grandmother never married & never acknowledged her parental connection to her daughter once she was in Canada. I only proved the parental connection in the last 10 months or so.)
There is a fabulous Cheyne website. Have you seen that? I'm not sure of any connection to a David that had a son that went to Oz, but I'll take a look tomorrow to see if he's there.
Cheers
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Hi, thank you for your reply, amazing how many of our ancestors were either unmarried, or had children out of wedlock, seems like today, it is going back to those times.
I have not seen the Cheyne site, could you possibly send me the link, we may end up connected who knows. Good luck with your research. Pat Barnes (nee Boon).
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Excuse me butting in but here's the link to the Cheyne website.
regards,
flst
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cheyne/index.htm
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Thank you fist. I appreciate the follow-up. :)
I was just doing a scan of it to see if I could see Pat's: Doug Cheyne (1917) & Edith Mitchell. I don't see them, but it is so large that I may have missed something.
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:)My gt gt gt grandmother Catherine was a Bain (maiden name) ,she was living in the Gallowgate Aberdeen in 1879 and her father was George Bain...
dont know if this helps
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Hi kernowbull.
Welcome to RootsChat.
Was your ggg grandmother's name Isabella (b1865) or Elizabeth (b.1861)?
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Hello
It was Catherine Bain(I think she had a middle name Mearns ,I know she was married in Aberdeen 16/08/1879 to John Wilson,
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Hi Kernowbull, I'm not familiar with that name - not to say she wasn't related though. ;)
Was she sister to Robert Bain (1858-1913)? Were her parents: father George Bain (1804-1871); mother Isabella (b.1823)?
I haven't got too much confirmed when I get back beyond Robert Bain (found gravestone at Skene) & one of his brothers (found gravestone at Skene) + two sisters from census. I have some names - just haven't got around to verification. ;D
Hope to find we are connected as I'm enjoying this branch.
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Many thanks to one & all who helped with this thread in the past.
I've not connected with any living Bains on the Scotland side of the ocean.
However, on Monday I sent a PM to another Chatter with Cheyne in their list of surnames of interest. We didn't see any direct connections between the two of us, but she sent me a link to a Pirie Family Website on RootsWeb. I opened that & came face to face with the same picture I have of my ggg Cheyne grandparents. I sent an e-mail to the fellow who constructed the site - low-&-behold - 3rd cousin, once removed!
The best Christmas present ever for family research addict.
Thank each & everyone of you for your help along the way. Merry Christmas & all the best in 2012.
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So pleased for you! Merry Christmas.
flst :)
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Hi flst
I am looking for any info on Davidson's and Gerrie's.
My Great Grandfather - James Davidson b. 1846 married Mary Gerrie b. 1840 in Fyvie, they lived in Turriff and my Grandfather was Lewis Gerrie Davidson b. 1874.
Mary Gerrie's parents were Lewis Gerrie and Jane Mathieson from Tarves and James Davidson's parents were George Davidson b.1813c and Margaret Booth, both from Gamrie.
Does anyone you are researching have links with any of these ? I see both surnames are on your list, It would be great to find something out
Thanks a million
LynEllen
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Hi again
I've just seen that you also have Finnie in your list. There was a William G Finnie, born in Fyvie, lodging with my family of Davidson's in Macduff in 1891 and still with them in Woodside in 1901. He was aged 2 in 1891.
We seem to have a few surnames in common.
Lyn Ellen
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Hi lynellen
Happy New Year & welcome to RootsChat.
In order to follow up on your surnames of interest it will be best for you start your own thread. (You may get knowledgeable responders in addition to Fist. ;)) Simply go to the Aberdeen page and then you'll see a button at the top that says something like "start a new topic".
Fist is a frequent visitor so I'm sure he'll see your post. If he doesn't, simply find him in a thread like the Bain / Cheyne thread here and click on the green scroll beneath his avatar picture & you can send him a personal message.
Cheers & happy family history researching in 2012!
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Thanks Red Mystic
I was hunting around late last night and eventually found how to start a new topic. Hopefully I've done it correctly and even more hopefully it will lead to someone with some knowledge on some of my ancestors.
It's very addictive stuff this family research !
All the best and thanks again
LynEllen
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Hi once again Chatters.
It has been a joy researching my Bains with your help. I have another question that is, as yet, unanswered.
The middle name of one of the children was Polson. As it sounds like a surname & naming conventions being what they were, it was likely a family name from some point in time, where did it come from?
Here is a quick summary (with more detail earlier in this thread):
One of the children of Robert Bain (1858 Forvern - 1913 Kingswell) & Ann Henderson (1878 - 1923 Kingswell) had the name Edward Polson Bain (1883 - 1884). All are buried at Kirkton of Skene.
The thread pertaining to Ann Henderson's lineage is included in this link.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,536980.0.html
In a nutshell, Ann was born to John Henderson & Innes Berry. Innes married John Prossor. Prossor was the middle name of the boy born to Robert Bain & Anne Henderson 2 years before Edward Polson Bain was born to them.
I've tried to figure out if there is a Polson family connection, but haven't landed on anything. Does anyone have any ideas about where the Polson name may have come from?
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,594086.0.html
In order to keep the family branch finds together, this is an update on Elizabeth Henderson (aka Betsy Prosser): Ann Henderson's daughter & 1/2 sister to Frederick Bain (& the other Bain boys) that came to Canada.
Thanks as always to the wonderful Chatters who have helped along the way.
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Hello,
I've not been here for ages as research has taken a bit of a backseat, but now looking into hubby's family tree and have links with both Cheyne & Bain.
This lot all come from around Methlick, Lonmay, New Pitsligo, Rosehearty and Fraserburgh.
Cheyne - the Helen Greig who m Alexander Cheyne is from the Greig family of Lonmay/New Pitsligo - on whom I have LOADS of info, including some very confusing interlinks with the Shearers from New Pitsligo / Monquhitter. I've also recently found Shearer used as a middle name in other branches of this family there are probably even more twisted links to discover!
Also, Barbara Cheyne (b1886) m Lewis Bain (b1885) - I have a lot of info on Lewis's' grandfather Hector Bain (sometimes recorded as McBain (B 1802 D 1885 Fraserburgh) and all his descendants. The Mc seems to have been used sometimes, sometimes not - probably depending on the transcriber and how the original was written (ie with or without a space!), which I've come across fairly often.
Bain appears on hubby's maternal side too, via the Howie/Oliphant line - all from Rosehearty and around. but who also link back to the same Hector Bain / McBain as above!
I have bits and pieces of details on many of this family now, I am almost lost in the midst of them, lol, but if I can help in any way at all, just ask! :)
Smoo
X
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Hi Smoo,
Thank you for checking in! I will double back to see if any of your names connect in to my tree. Have you seen the Cheyne family site?
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cheyne/
I don't see any connection to Bains in that site. A year or so I identified which of the daughters came to Canada - one married a Bain - but it hasn't been updated.
The Pirie family history site crosses over with the Cheyne site. They include my information, but I don't see any other Bain connection to the Cheyne family name there either.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/pirie/history/PFWv1-o/index.htm
Yesterday, a Chatter, ev, sent me something interesting: Frederick Bain/Mary Ann Cheyne marriage 1937 Aberdeen Aberdeen City. I've not found a fit in my tree (yet ;)).
The Cheynes & Bains in my direct line were well settled in Canada by that time, having come in 1909.
Now on to a question I hope you ca help with given all your Bain & Cheyne connections. This is my branch:
Frederick Charles Malcolm Bain (so Robert Bain & Ann Henderson)
Birth 26 May 1889 in Peterculter, Aberdeenshire
Death 26 Aug 1944 in Moosomin, Saskatchewan, Canada
married (in Canada)
Mary Helen Cheyne, of Balnamoon Farm, New Pitsligo (do Helen Cheyne, who was do John Cheyne & Helen Ironside)
Birth 19 Sep 1886 in Peterhead, Aberdeenshire, Scotland
Death 11 Dec 1967 in Moosomin, Saskatchewan, Canada
Do any of these people show up in your tree?
I also wonder, being so far apart, how Fred & Mary Helen would have met? I see, from the WWI memorial in New Pitsligo, that there were Bains there. Could they have been related to Frederick's father, Robert Bain (abt 1858- Feb 1913) who was from Foveran before moving to Crommie Cottage at Kingswell?
Do any of these names / pieces ring a bell Smoo? Thanks in advance for any insight you can provide.
Cheers,
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Jan, have you checked your e-mail?
Regards
Malky
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Good morning Malky,
I noticed two e-mails come in as I was posting a response to smoo.
You've outdone yourself!
Thank you very much for the Kirkton of Skene cemetery photos. I found headstones for Robert & his brother John when we visited last summer, but the others are new & much appreciated! :-*
Thanks also for the photos of Crommie Cottage. I saw that in person last summer, but not with the added bonus of the cherry blossoms you captured in one of your shots. You went to a lot of effort to capture it from so many vantage points! (It's awfully close to the motorway isn't it? :o ;D)
Thank you very, very much. :) :) :)
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Hi Chatters,
Can I please get some help with an elusive census? I'm looking for the 1891 census for John Cheyne (1828-1918) & Helen Ironside (1827-1910) at Balnamoon, New Pitsligo Parish, Aberdeenshire.
I have the world edition of *A*. A transcription doesn't seem to be there (though a second set of eyes are invited to try find it ;)). I can see a 1891 census record for John Cheyne on the FamilySearch site, but there is no image & the transcription doesn't list others in the home.
I can see on the Cheyne Family Website that the record I'm searching for is Enumeration District 7, page 27, number 124. Unfortunately, when I contacted the site I got a bounce-back message saying they are away indefinitely. (The last update to the site was in 2010.)
Can someone provide the image for me or direct me to another source?
Many thanks in advance for your help.
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In addition to the census info of the last post re the 1891 census in New Pitsligo, I'm also looking for a list of the burials at Longside Kirkyard, Aberdeenshire. ;D
Sarah Third (nee Cheyne) (1864-1931) and her husband, John Gibb Third (1861-1940) are apparently buried in that cemetery. I would love to get photos of their stones if possible. If there are other Thirds there, I'm interested in those stones as well. ;)
Jane "Jeannie" Cheyne was working in Longside in 1901 for Alexander Cener, Head Master, Longside Public School. It is possible that she is buried in that community. ??? If so, she died after 1918 & I'd love to get a photo of her headstone as well.
The Longside Kirkyard is not included in the cemeteries listed at: http://www.anesfhs.org.uk/databank/miindex/miindex.php
Does anyone know if the cemetery has been transcribed and, if so, if headstone photos exist?
Thanks again for any help that can be provided.
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You could contact the ANEFHS & ask them if they have any unpublished transcripts for Longside.These would only be ones that heve been submitted so will be incomplete. The registar at Peterhead may have the burial records & could give you a lair number & hopefully a map. If you do get to that stage I am willing to go there & take photos for you.
flst
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That's a great idea, flst! I'll get on it right away.
Thank you for the offer to photograph the headstones if I find them. :)
MODIFIED: Message has been sent. Based on your suggestion, I looked at the ANEFHS listings more thoroughly & determined that Longside is one of the unpublished cemeteries. My hope is that it makes a response and easy one for them. ;) :)
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I had a look on Ancestry & the only Cheynes in Balnamoon I found was Mary Hellen Cheyne age 4, with her grandfather Alexander Murray.
flst
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Thanks flst.
That's the right record. :) I should have read that more thoroughly; not the right grandfather.
Mary Helen Cheyne was daughter to my avatar.
As I understand it, she was living with her grandparents (John Cheyne / Helen Ironside) and her aunt (Mary Ann). I'm not sure who else was in the house at the time.
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There is a family tree on Ancestry which has lots of photos & sources on it. Have you seen it? The glaring obvious ommission is the 1891 census. Looks like they couldn't find it on Ancestry either. Given that scotlandspeople uses the original census returns & not transcriptions have you searched there?
flst
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Thank's flst. That's very likely my tree on *A*.
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Given that scotlandspeople uses the original census returns & not transcriptions have you searched there?
Just wondering!
flst
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RM, have you read this :-
http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cheyne/p641.htm
You need to scroll down a bit on the page
Regards
Malky
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Hi again flst & Malky
Sorry for the few hours of delayed response. I had to run into town.
flst, I'm so pathetically bad at ScotlandsPeople searches that I admit that I didn't think to go there - but will do that now. I just keep thinking, since the Cheyne Family site indicates that they got the 1891 census from LDS, that I should be able to as well. ::) ;D
Malky, I have seen Jim Cheyne's site - it's marvelous. :) I've offered him my photos - have one of everyone in the family of John Cheyne / Helen Ironside except youngest daughter Mary Ann. We corresponded several times about 18 months ago, but his more recent bounce-back message advised of delayed responses & he hasn't been in touch recently.
Jim hasn't categorically linked my Helen Cheyne who came to Canada in 1910 to the Helen he has noted as daughter of John Cheyne/Helen Ironside, but I know her to be so. Not only are my family's old pictures identified as such, but now that I have the pictures of the other siblings (including the same one Jim has of eldest son William in the jaunty top hat), I think I can be absolutely confident in the family connection. ;)
Neil Pirie's family site is very good as well. It connects to the Cheyne family through John Cheyne's son William. Neil is a welcome wealth of info & we have a great time sharing things back & forth.
Now that I've nailed the photos of the family members (still have a few to upload to my *A* tree), I'm working on little bits & pieces around the edges ... like missing census data & a few death dates (John's daughter "Jeanne" Jane b1866 & daughter Mary Ann b1868).
I am also very curious about the boy in the house in the 1881 census: Charles Leel, age 6, grandson and scholar. Jim Cheyne & Neil Pirie both indicate that "parentage is to be determined". I have the birth record for this child, and I can't make hide nor hair of a grandchild connection to the Cheynes. :P ::) ;D
Oh well, there's never a dull moment in the land of family history research. ::) ;D ;D ;D ;D
I really appreciate the interest you both take in my searches. It is much appreciated. :-*
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Now that I've nailed the photos of the family members (still have a few to upload to my *A* tree), I'm working on little bits & pieces around the edges ... like missing census data & a few death dates (John's daughter "Jeanne" Jane b1866 (Try 1941 at New Pitsligo.)& daughter Mary Ann b1868 (Try 1932, Surname "Towns" Aberdeen Northern District).
I am also very curious about the boy in the house in the 1881 census: Charles John Leel, age 6, grandson
( born illegitimately on the 30th September 1874 to Charles Leel of Bodichell, Fraserburgh, and Isabella Ferguson Hardie, domestic servant at Balnamoon, New Pitsligo. The child was born at Balnamoon. )
and scholar. Jim Cheyne & Neil Pirie both indicate that "parentage is to be determined". I have the birth record for this child, and I can't make hide nor hair of a grandchild connection to the Cheynes.
I think that the "grandson" was just a sympathetic tab for the boy and his mother, since she worked there, but there is no actual direct family tie.
Regards
Malky
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Thank you Malky
I've been playing on SP since you sent this & was able to see that there are records. :) Then I couldn't buy any more credits because I can't remember my SecureCode for my card :'( - husband made it up for our joint card & won't be home until tomorrow night so I'll hold tight until then ;). The upside is that at least, with your guidance, I can see that some records exist which is far beyond where I usually get. Thank you. :)
I didn't find a marriage record for Mary Ann as yet, but will go back to see if I can find that. :P It would be amazing if she did (& had children) as I have a photo of my Helen Cheyne seated with another woman of similar features with a passel of children. I have a similar picture with Helen, sister Sarah & her children and now wonder if I'll be able to match a census to the genders & approximate ages of the children in my unknown picture. That would be amazing if it's the case. 8)
Thanks also for the thought about the little boy Leel. That could well be the case.
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"Thanks also for the thought about the little boy Leel. That could well be the case."
That's taken from the birth record.
The surname "Towns" is taken from the death record.
Regards
Malky
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I meant the thought about the "grandson" terminology being used judiciously. I don't see anything on the death record I have that would make that connection, & hadn't considered that they might have used the term as a "sympathetic tab". ;)
I'll have to wait until tomorrow to see the death record with the Towns name on it when I can purchase some credits.
In the meantime, I've been wafting about trying to find a marriage record for Mary Ann Cheyne to a Towns occurring after 1891 (as she was still at Balnamoon - according to the Cheyne website - at that point.) No luck so far. ??? (I can see that lots of Towns lived around Ellon, which wasn't too far from New Pitsligo. ::))
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Hi Malky
I won at the game of chance for Jane Cheyne (d.1941) as you suggested. :-*
The Cheyne/Towns connection isn't mine, so I'm back to the drawing board on that one. ???
It's one step forward because of you. My thanks. :)
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I had a look on Ancestry & the only Cheynes in Balnamoon I found was Mary Hellen Cheyne age 4, with her grandfather Alexander Murray.
flst
What do you think of the possibility of this?
As pointed out by flst, at the age of 4 (1891 census), Mary Helen was living in Balnamoon, Tyrie Parish, Aberdeenshire with her "grandfather", Alexander Murray. He had four sons, two of which would have been about the same age as Mary Helen's mother Helen.
Not that it matters ::), but by process of elimination, that could possibly make James or William Murray, sons of Alexander Murray the father of Mary Helen.
Alexander Murray 70 b Tyrie Aberdeen - farmer
Mary Hellen Cheyne 4 g/dtr b Tyrie Aberdeen
Tyrie ED 4 Page 4 Line 24
By the 1901 census, Mary Helen Cheyne was listed as living with her maternal grandparents, John Cheyne & Helen Ironside. Her mother, Helen, also lived in the family home.
Hmmmmmm.
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RM, with regards to Jim Cheyne's site, there is a comment as to a Mary Ann Cheyne in the 1901 census,
at Easter Pettymarcus, in Old Deer Parish, Aberdeen, born in Old Deer, aged 17 years old. I do not think that this is the Mary Ann Cheyne we are looking for. There is a possibility that this is the one who was born in Old Deer in 1867. Between 1867 and 1869, there were 3 Mary Ann Cheynes born in Aberdeenshire. One in Savoch, Tarves, one in Old Deer and the third in Methlick. There is a grave at Urquhart Old Churchyard, Mary Ann Cheyne, death 25th April 1930. She is on the ANESFHS MI Index site at that location. Don't know if she is the one we are looking for as I do not have the printed version of the index.
Regards
Malky
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Thanks Malky,
I had spotted that age discrepancy in Jim Cheyne's materials for Mary Ann in the 1891 census as well. I forwarded that to Jim a few days ago.
I really appreciate the flag for a burial possibility. I'll follow up on that after I'm back from vacation - heading away for 3.5 weeks.
Thanks again for the follow-up. :)
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Did you manage to find the Cheynes (in 1891) in the scotlandspeople website?
flst