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General => Armed Forces => Topic started by: rachelralph on Wednesday 26 January 11 11:23 GMT (UK)
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i am hoping someone could help. i have samuel holt born abt 1846/47. in 1881 he is in aldershot perm barracks. listed in the 45th sherwood foresters, 2nd battlion the derbyshire regiment. by 1891 he is in lancashire with his irish wife and no longer in the army. i know that between 1881 and 1891 the battlion were in ireland, which is how he met his wife. i have contacted the archivces for the sherwood foresters and they have no record of this man. i am confused as to whom he served with. my father is a soldier and has been based at windsor household calverly even though he was serving with pay corps. so could this be the same then. could samuel holt have served with another regiment and just have been based at the barracks with the sherwood foresters? i would love some more info on his military career. many thanks
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in 1881 he is in aldershot perm barracks. listed in the 45th sherwood foresters, 2nd battlion the derbyshire regiment.
So if I understand you right, his unit is listed as both of the above which is where your confusion lies?
There are in fact consistent and show the same unit (albeit he's possibly transferred battalion). Once you get to grips with the Army reforms of 1881 and the implications for regimental names/titles and amalgamations then it becomes clearer.
Prior to 1881 this was the situation:
Line infantry regiments were first and foremost designated by number (there were always a few exceptions though), and most regiments also had some kind of title/designation alongside the number. So for example,
- 45th (Nottinghamshire) (Sherwood Foresters) Regiment of Foot
- 95th (Derbyshire) Regiment of Foot
In the reforms in 1881, all these regiments lost their traditional numbers. In addition to that, in most cases two of the old regiments were amalgamated into one new regiment. This process happened to the 45th and 95th as an example.
So post 1881 this was the new situation:
- 1st battalion Sherwood Foresters (Derbyshire) Regt (new designation of the 45th)
- 2nd battalion Sherwood Foresters (Derbyshire Regt) (new designation of the 95th)
Later name changes then complicate the picture further. But Samuel was apparently only in the one regiment. The confusion arises as 1881 is just when the changes happened and everyone had to adjust to the new names.
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oh my head is so confused! on the census it says 45th sherwood foresters. then i did some research and i found that the 2nd battalion were in ireland around the right time and the right place in ireland, for him to marry his wife. where as the 1st battlion werent i think.
it been a while since i did the research and i have just come back to it now, so i cannot remember exactley where i found the 2nd battlion info from.
i would just love to know more about his military career, plus i cannot find him on the 1871 census so i wondered whether he was serving abroad then too.
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oh my head is so confused! on the census it says 45th sherwood foresters. then i did some research and i found that the 2nd battalion were in ireland around the right time and the right place in ireland, for him to marry his wife. where as the 1st battlion werent i think.
Just to confuse you further then, it was the other way round! ;)
It was the first battalion in Ireland from 1882-89 (2nd btn were in India):
1882-85 Athlone
1885-88 Kilkenny
1888-89 Limerick
plus i cannot find him on the 1871 census so i wondered whether he was serving abroad then
And likewise, the 45th was in India in 1871 so that's a possibility for his whereabouts.
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oh dear i am confused now. so the 1st battalion is more likey the battlion he was with? if this is right then do you now where i could get any info from? thanks
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I've got a Sherwood Forester, too. Charles Henry Wilkinson, served from 1886-1898. He was at Raglan Baracks in 1891, but I don't know which battalion (I have his attestation papers, can't find it there, maybe I'm just looking in the wrong place?) I don't know much more about where else they served at the moment, only recently found him. It amazes me, though, that from papers available online I know his eye colour, height, chest measurement, etc., and so can start to build a picture of him, and yet there a more recent members of the family I still know nothing about!
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It will be on page 3. He would have started in D (for Depot) then transferred to 1st or 2nd (Battalion).
If you are still having problems then post where he served (top of page 4).
You also need to see if he was transferred to the Army Reserve after 6 or 7 years.
Ken
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Thanks! It was the first battalion, and looking further on the papers it lists the plac in Ireland he served.
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would you mind listing the places your man served? im struggling still with my gentleman as to where he met his wife? she is irish and there are one or two marriages that it could be i need to narrow it down a little.
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I've got Derby 20/09/86
Kilkenny 16/12/1886
What looks like Duncannon 5/7/1887
Limerick 19/01/1888
The next one I struggle with the handwriting: I'll try to scan it in and see if anyone else can decipher it, looks to me like Lealie, but I really don't know 15/10/1888
Limerick 28/1/1889
Devonport 1/5/1889
Colchester 6/12/1891
Derby 27/10/1897
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Here are the movements for the 1st & 2nd Bn.
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that is very very helpful thank you :)
i had found a marriage in athlone in oct of 1884 that seemed right and now i can say it most probably is, i now also know he was with the first battlion.
it also helps me work out roughly when he left as in 1891 he is in lancashire as a labourer, so i knew he left between 1884 when he married and 1891. i would think looking at those dates he left the military about the same time as the battlion left ireland.
now all i have to do is work out why his wife was in athlone.