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Old Photographs, Recognition, Handwriting Deciphering => Handwriting Deciphering & Recognition => Topic started by: Essenchill on Wednesday 26 January 11 07:21 GMT (UK)
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I've had this thread moved here from the East Yorkshire boards as we think we need specialist help on deciphering parts of this photos and also in trying to date it. Any help appreciated on ideas for the bottle the lady is holding, the sign in the window and any ideas on possible dating. There are closer scans of the bottle and sign on page two. For dating purposes, details about the physical photograph included in the message which contains the second close-up scan of the bottle.
Thanks
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Original thread:
I'm pretty sure this photo was taken somewhere in Hull and the suggestion from family is that it could be the old infirmary (I've not got any details of where this was and when the 'new' one replaced it).
A guess from me would put this in the 1930's/1940's but I don't really know!
If anyone recognises where this is, and at a real stretch can offer a dating period, it might lead to me beginning to understand the reason for the picture and what is going on!
Any suggestions/opinions or advice would be appreciated, thanks!
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Hi
My first impression is a photograph which has been taken to celebrate a product of some description. The lady is holding up a bottle for the camera. I don't think it is a nurses uniform but I can't offer any suggestions as to why the white apron.
evie
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Hi
Just a thought
Similar looking building on the Seven Seas website http://www.seven-seas.com/seven-seas-timeline
1936 onwards – Cod liver oil liquid is distributed free to pregnant and nursing mothers and children up to five years old through the Ministry of Food's Welfare Food Scheme
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Hi Evie,
Interesting stuff, and food for thought! Thank you. I thought the uniform looked a little like a waitress one? Which goes in with the bottle as it's hard to tell what it is! I'll have a good look at the Seven Seas info. A starting point if nothing else - thank you!
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Does anyone know where I might find photographs of the old Seven Sea's offices which I believe were on St Andrews Dock, Hull? Or original buildings at Marfleet, Hull?
The one photo on the Seven Seas website has the truck across the front of the building, so I cannot see the detail I need to in order to compare the photos!
It's a very exciting piece of information found on the timeline however; "1920s – Discovery of vitamins A and D in Cod Liver Oil, nutrients that are hard to find in other foods. Doctors urge usage of Cod liver oil as a cure for the crippling bone disease rickets, and Hull trawler owners invest in its commercial production." I don't think I have links to trawler owners, however my family did work from Hull Docks on the trawlers. A very tenuos link at the moment which I'm looking forward to exploring!
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I think Evie is spot on with the building...I have enlarged it a bit as I couldn't find another photo of the building...can you scan just the bottle at 600 dpi so we can read the lable.
Carol
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Hi Carol, I will try to do a larger scan of just the bottle later today, I'm very intrigued to see if anyone can work out what the bottle is (and if it is cod liver oil)!
I'm not sure if my scanner is capable of 600 dpi but I will have a look and do my best!
Thanks for enlarging the photo of the building, I agree the brick work detail looks spot on. I'm also drawing a blank on finding further photos of the building! Does anyone know if this building was/is at St Andrews Dock or if this was/is at Marfleet?
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I thought the uniform looked a little like a waitress one?
Me too, and the chaps look more like office staff than medical. Don't know why - perhaps it's the absence of stethoscopes?
She could be a rather up-market tea lady in the office building (in the days when they came round with trollies). Maybe Directors only?
I don't remember cod liver oil bottles being that shape - but perhaps I'm mixing them up with orange juice ???
Linda
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Thanks Linda, I'd agree on the shape of the bottle, it does look much more like a drink of some kind rather than cod liver oil. I will scan to the best quality I can and get a close-up on here later today.
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Waitress or not the man behind is a bit familiar with his hands :D
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It's a bottle of sauce and the lady is a "Trolley Dolly" ;D ;D ;D...The man is demonstrating the "Sauciness" too :P ;D ;D ;D
http://www.seven-seas.com/seven-seas-timeline
Carol
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Waitress or not the man behind is a bit familiar with his hands :D
I hadn't noticed that at all! Well spotted evie!!
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Oh Carol ;D
Essenchill when you are doing the bottle can you please try the notices in the window too please to see if they are any clearer. Thanks
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Is the fact that the chap on the right has no collar and tie an indication as to date? Also some of the ties are quite wide - more generous than I would have thought likely in the 1930s/40s?
My first thought was that it might be a sauce bottle - something like Yorkshire Relish or Lea & Perrins Worcester sauce perhaps?
p.s. second thoughts, maybe it's a beer? Perhaps brewed for the coronation or some special event?
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evie - I will try for the notices as well, but don't hold out much hope on them!
Heather - any ideas of the indicated date from the no collar and tie or the wide ties? My guess at the year was purely that!
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I'm no dating expert but it's almost like the 1970s with someone wearing just a sweater and jacket and also what looks like a novelty tie with a design on it rather than the normal stripes or spots.
Perhaps if you put a link to this thread on the Deciphering and Recognition board then some of the expert daters will be able to help. :)
p.s. or maybe the Photo Restoration and Dating board would be better ;D
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Look at the left hand window as you look at the photo... could the notice say..?????? "Sauce"
Carol
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If your scanner has a tick box that's says "Display Scanner Driver" then tick this box and you should get a display with finer settings and get to choose the Dpi and also scan with the marching ants around the bottle with the dpi at 600 also do this for the window notice.
Carol
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OK, here's the best my scanner seems able to do, and I don't think these are going to help much, you might all surprise me!! Here are 600dpi scans of bottle and sign in the window! Also, can anyone confirm where the Seven Seas building was/is? Am I right thinking it was/is St Andrews Dock? Thanks!
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For completeness, the photo is only roughly 2 inches by 4 inches...
The reverse shows it is photographic paper and has the logo "Agfa-Brovira" as Fuji or Kodak would appear across other photographic paper... I can scan the reverse as well but there isn't much to see.
Finally, I will see if I can get this moved to the Photographic board for further analysis, however thank you all so much for looking so far...
In the meantime - another scan of that bottle...!
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Hi
Can't make out the pics yet but thanks for posting them. Seven Seas is on Hedon Road Hull. Put Seven Seas near Hedon Road Hull into Google maps and choose the Marfleet Seven Seas East Bound. There is a building that looks similar but there are some boards from Yorkshire Water so once again we can't see the entrance.
I also had a look on old maps and in the 1950's if I remember correctly a map shows the building as British Cod Liver Oil Company. I haven't got the link in front of me at the moment but I think that was what it said.
evie
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Yes, Seven Seas was originally called British Cod Liver Oil (BCLO) Producers before finding it's brand. See this article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_Seas_(company)
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I'm no dating expert but it's almost like the 1970s with someone wearing just a sweater and jacket and also what looks like a novelty tie with a design on it rather than the normal stripes or spots.
I'm no expert either but as soon as I saw it, it reminded me of some promotional photos my dad was in in the 1970's. ;D
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This might help you date the photo
http://lwcollectibles.blogspot.com/2007/09/agfa-photopaper.html
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If it is the 1970s then everyone has remarkably short hair :-\ Only the younger staff in the front right hand corner have longer locks - but then the rest of the men are of an older generation.
At least four of them are smoking, one with the fag still in his mouth! and the casual crouched pose of the front row doesn't seem formal enough for 1930s/40s. However the lady's dress and hair seems to be from an earlier era and I did wonder if this was a promotional shot for the 50th or some other anniversary of the production of the 'sauce' or whatever it is. Then maybe she's wearing a costume from when the product was first made?
There's a lot of guessing going on there ^^^ :-[ I'll be really interested to see what the folk on Photo Restoration and Dating think :)
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Could it be Heinz Tomato Ketchup?
It is rather inappropriate that there are two hands from the man behind her holding on to the ladies waist.
I bet he got a good slap once the photo had been taken.
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Why only one woman in the photo?
Is one of the men right at the back in the doorway wearing a white laboratory coat?
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And no young people in the photo, How old do you think the youngest man in the photo is?
I would say the youngest is about age 30.
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I think it's a 50s photo and canteen related...the guy at the back could be wearing a caterers white coat.
Carol
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To help with the dating issue, the cheeky chap crouching behind the guy on the first row is my grandfather who died in 1959. I have other photographs which show him looking older than he does here, and so that is why I guessed the (late) 1930's or 1940's... I think I should move this from the Hull board as other than a bit of a guess we haven't firmly being able to establish location!
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Is it a bottle of Mackeson beer
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What did he do for a living Neil.
Carol
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Hi Carol, still trying to find information on what he did for a living - he died when my father was 7 years old and so we don't have much information yet.
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This might help you date the photo
http://lwcollectibles.blogspot.com/2007/09/agfa-photopaper.html
Thanks tedscout!
From this article the logo on the back is the last but one, 'Agfa-Brovira postwar':
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Neil...I think the answer lies in a better scan of the bottle and the window sign..if this link doesn't help...try googling your scanner model and ask how for instructions on how to change the dpi:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,372537.0.html
Carol
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What about the man with the big tie, third from the right, front row ?
Is that a sort of horseracing motif on it ?
The way they're dressed looks like some sort of works outing ? Maybe a day at the races ?
The building looks 1930's, but I'd say the photo is more 1970's.
Incidentally, Agfa Brovira paper was produced from the 1930's, but there was a lot of post-war surplus stock around in the 1950's and 60's. The paper is still made today, but it's now called Agfa Brovira Speed.
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Neil...I think the answer lies in a better scan of the bottle and the window sign..if this link doesn't help...try googling your scanner model and ask how for instructions on how to change the dpi:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,372537.0.html
Carol
I can scan to 9200dpi but even that looks as grainy and blurred to me! I can post that scan later if you think it would help?
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It may not be in Hull...It could be a Brewery outing...it's not Hull Brewery though...The building is not "The Maltings"....the tie logo does look as Nick suggested.
Carol
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Neil...I think the answer lies in a better scan of the bottle and the window sign..if this link doesn't help...try googling your scanner model and ask how for instructions on how to change the dpi:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,372537.0.html
Carol
I can scan to 9200dpi but even that looks as grainy and blurred to me! I can post that scan later if you think it would help?
If the print itself is blurred, then scanning at a higher resolution won't make it any sharper. Try scanning a small area as a .bmp image - this will not have the 'artifacts' caused by the .jpg compression technique, and it may be possible to sharpen it. However, .bmp images tend to be large files, hence the suggestion to only scan a small area of the photo. The main areas of interest are the bottle, the sign on the window, and the tie logo.
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Could it be Tadcaster brewery?
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To help with the dating issue, the cheeky chap crouching behind the guy on the first row is my grandfather who died in 1959. I have other photographs which show him looking older than he does here, and so that is why I guessed the (late) 1930's or 1940's... I think I should move this from the Hull board as other than a bit of a guess we haven't firmly being able to establish location!
Oops that blows my 1970s theory out of the water then!!! How old was grandfather when he died? I'd think this was nearer 1959 than 1930s/40s (but then again what do I know :-[ ) :)
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Yes, I sorta missed that too. Maybe just progressive 1950's dressers. There was a lot of American influences in life in the 1950's, especially clothing.
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They could all have been members of a Bowls club or similar, on a day out. can we identify the uniform of the lady? could it be Guiness, they tend to be black and white colours. Or Newcastle Brown are also black and white
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Post what you have Neil and I will have a go at sharpening it... if you have read the link and not compressed as shown there... we may be able to make it clearer than what has already been posted.
Carol
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Is it possible that some of the men are wearing De-mob suits? Look at the style and cut of the lapels. The gentleman standing at one end with his tie outside his jumper doesnt usually wear a tie, I would guess.
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Baby feeding bottel?,Guess I am way off the mark lol
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Definitely not 1970`s.I left Highschool in the early 1970`s and men didn`t wear suits or have hairstyles like that.It was mainly long hair in the 1970`s. ;D The hippie era was just ending if I remember rightly. Its more like early 1940`s.
johngirl
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I wondered if the neckties might give us some pointers as there are several clearly visible. According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Necktie it seems the date could be 1950s and the chap at the front's striped tie is striped in the American way (i.e. from right shoulder down to left side) if that gives any clues.
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No hats or were they taken off for the pic?
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The window frames look 1930s to me but they are not new and so that places the photograph post war. The ties are mostly tied with half windsor knots. As most of the men are over forty this would make late 1950s most likely, which is supported by the style of some of the actual ties.
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How old was grandfather when he died? I'd think this was nearer 1959 than 1930s/40s (but then again what do I know :-[ ) :)
Grandfather was born 1905 and died 1959. So he was 54 at death in 1959. I have other photos of him and will post some up later to demonstrate why I'm assuming this is earlier than 1959; I think though saying 1930's/40's was perhaps off the mark and should have been late 40's/early-to-mid 50's?
Thanks for all the suggestions so far everyone!
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The ties are mostly tied with half windsor knots. As most of the men are over forty this would make late 1950s most likely, which is supported by the style of some of the actual ties.
Hi behindthefrogs - Can you let me know your thinking on this as I'm confused!
Thanks
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Is his occupation not on your Parent's Marriage cert. Neil....It might help I.D. the premises.
Carol
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Hi Carol,
Family have only just confirmed they cannot find the marriage cert of grandmother and grandfather, I was holding out hoping someone would eventually find it - I've sent off for a copy of it earlier this week!
I haven't seen my parent's either, but as my grandfather died when my dad was seven, would his occupation be on it?
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On my Grandfather's cert it says his Father's occupation and then it says..."Deceased"
Carol
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Essenchill. I suggest that you take the photo in to your local weekly newspaper, and ask them to print it and ask their readers recognises themselves on the photo, and to explain where and why it was taken. The papers love that sort of photo and story.
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That's a good idea Scouse..Hull Daily Mail have a Daily Flashback page where people send in their photos and ask for help in identify people and places in and around Hull:
http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.uk/
Carol
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Here are some great photos of Hull that you could have a look at:
http://www.pbase.com/haunted_chipshop/old_hull_etc
Carol
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Thanks, I'll contact the Hull Daily Mail. I live in Manchester so it's not my local but that makes little difference!
Quite a number of the photos from Flashback online at http://www.dipintosales.co.uk/thisisHullAndEastRiding/dgallery.asp?i=209&f=Flashback
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I would go for the late 40s to early fifties. I remember my father with his hair slicked back with Brylcreem like Denis Compton from that period.
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/image/375937.html
There are several Brylcreem Boys among that group, aren't there?
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Baby feeding bottel?,Guess I am way off the mark lol
You're not alone Braw,I thought that bottle had a teat on it.Brown ale for babies? ;D
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Hi everybody...Treetotal sent me over here :)
I emailed the photo to OH who is also from Hull...without seeing any of the thread he guessed the Old Infirmary.
Googling the infirmary gave me a lot of hits for ghost tours :o
I thought the bottle looked like Rose's lime stuff...but as I'm not English I'm probably way off. Schweppes acquired Rose's in 1957, but I couldn't locate any factories in the Hull area.
The men's clothing doesn't really show anything dateable... it could be anything from the 40s to the 60s really. I'd like to see the lady's dress but it's likely a costume and not a current fashion. Sorry :P
Cheers,
China
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How old was grandfather when he died?
He died in 1959 aged 54... (He's the cheeky chap crouching behind the guy on the first row)
[Photos now removed as unnecessary]
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I was going to post image scans of the bottle to 9200dpi in jpeg and in bmp but both files are way too large to post on here, jpeg itself is 799KB and bmp is 15.7mb! Haven't managed to compress.
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Hi Essenchill.I think your photo is from the mid 50`s judging by the clothes they are wearing.Did you notice the reflection in the left hand window,it looks like a "Char-a-banc" to me.It`s possible the lads have stopped off at a half way house,and have just borrowed the lady for the photo (she looks a bit embarrassed).All the years I worked for breweries (hic) these days out were called "Jolly boys outings" assuming this is what they are. As well as being interested in genealogy I also used to collect beer labels,so I am including a scan of a Hull brewery label from the 50`s.I hope this is of interest.
Cheers Serge.
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I started work in 1950, and from the clothes and haircuts these chaps look like men in my office, at around that time.
Loud ties, like the one on the right, were all the rage among young blokes, likewise Windsor knots. I had a tie then something like the other one in the front row - mine was in big red and yellow checks, and quite unlike my father's sober pre-war ties.
So I'd make a guess at the date as c1950-1952.
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How about sending a copy of the picture to Seven-Sea (there is a contact address on the website mentioned earlier) and asking them if they know anything ?
Bob
ps: and a link to this topic too ;D
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Or how about sending a copy of the photo to a bottle collecting forum or similar? Someone who's collected one of those bottles might recognise it instantly :)
If they're out on a works outing it wouldn't be very jolly with only one bottle to share! Would the licensee's name be over the door if they were standing in front of a pub or bar in the 1950's?
Seems to me more likely the photo is marking either the launch or anniversary of the product in the bottle and they've all had a hand in its production.
Do we have any idea of Grandad's occupation yet Essenchill?
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The building doesn't remind me of the old Infirmary on Prospect Street, but it looks remarkably like Seven Seas on Hedon Road.
The bottle looks more like it should hold alcohol rather than sauce and the group look like they're celebrating something. The lady with the white pinafore looks like she could be a "silver service" waitress.
Excepting for teenagers, of course, the hairstyles and the jumper were all prelavent in the late 1950's. In 1959 the Hull Brewery produced a 1959 commemorative bottle for Guiness (is good for you). The blob on the label could well be the harp depicted on this jpeg.
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Hi
I wonder if it might be worth contacting Paul Gibson
http://www.paul-gibson.com/
evie
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Marriage certificate for Grandfather has arrived today, at the time of marriage in 1931 he was listed as a fish worker. I'm not sure this leads us anywhere particularly useful in this instance!
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Marriage certificate for Grandfather has arrived today, at the time of marriage in 1931 he was listed as a fish worker. I'm not sure this leads us anywhere particularly useful in this instance!
Very fishy, if you ask me. ::) ::)
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Marriage certificate for Grandfather has arrived today, at the time of marriage in 1931 he was listed as a fish worker. I'm not sure this leads us anywhere particularly useful in this instance!
Ummm.... cod liver oil comes from ? :)
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Queries about my grandfathers occupation - he was listed as a fish worker on his own marriage certificate in 1931 and on my parents marriage certificate from the 70's he is listed as deceased, but occupation was 'fish bobber' which I'm led to believe is pretty much the same thing. My immediate reaction when someone suggested Seven Seas was the same as Nick's - one of excitement that there was a link between his work and Seven Seas of some kind, however he worked at the dock and didn't own the trawlers...
There is no definite link but hopefully identifying the event in the picture might lead me somewhere! I will see if the Hull Daily Mail shows any interest, I've emailed Seven Seas and wait to hear back - it's an unusual request to put to them, so it depends who it ends up landing with and what sort of day they are having on the response I get I think!!
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The term "fish bobber" was fairly specific to the Hull area and was someone who unloaded fish fromthe trawlers.
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Thanks behindthefrogs, I hadn't looked into that yet - that sounds spot on from the general impression I've been getting from my family about what he did. Really appreciated.
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the work description and the building we're talking about on the outskirts of Hull, just passed the village of Marfleet on Hedon Road, are both linked to the fish industry.
When we came to live in Lancashire I always thought of that building when shopping in my local supermarket and reached up to buy a jar of their mussels.
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Can anyone make out the image on the tie of the gentleman at the very front? It may be a company tie.
The lady may also have appeared in a number of the company's advertising promotions.
Nigel
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could she have been a waitress, mind you the man at the back had a firm hold on her
sylvia
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Re: Motor - Good spot of the reflection maidmarianoops
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Re the bottle with something sticking out of the top.
Could it be a stopper not pushed all the way in because either the bottle originally had a cork or the lid has been lost? I am thinking of a stopper similar to the ones you can get today for wine bottles :-\
Not sure why the woman is in the picture - unless she is related to the man behind who is holding her waist - seems a bit unusual for a group photo with only one female amongst so many men. Unless she was the only female working there but that brings up another question.
Are the men all at work and not on an outing?
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Can anyone make out the image on the tie of the gentleman at the very front? It may be a company tie.
The original print is quite small, and possibly (from the 'zoom in' scan's I've done on the bottle, sign and now the tie) slightly blurred. Here's the zoom on the tie, but yet again I don't think we can make out any more from zooming in on it. I get the impression it's either a product launch, a product anniversary, a celebration of some kind... It seems on the whole light-hearted although the majority of the people have made an effort in terms of dress for the occasion. The nurse/waitress is probably an obvious clue to the product in her hand, however with no other clues it's turning out to be not obvious at all!
The tie is perhaps a racing horse or polo?
Thanks to everyone who has had a look!
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Ooh that's a bit clearer! Now I can see a cowboy riding a bucking
bronco moose! :P :-[ Do you reckon that chap is Martin Kemp's Dad? Looks very much like him ;)
I think the bottle is going to be the key to solving the mystery of this photo, probably the best chance of identifying it is to post the photo on a bottle collectors' forum.
Hope we get an answer soon, I'm intrigued!
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could the lady be wearing a Guiness uniform?
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The tie is perhaps a racing horse or polo?
Thanks to everyone who has had a look!
Well, I did suggest that back in reply #35 ;)
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I just printed out the blow up of the bottle (so I could check with images of bottle labels) and I am sure it is a bottle with two labels on it.
What I thought was a bottle stopper is actually the lady's ear lobe and a small black shadow on the coat of the man behind so making it look as if something is stuck in the bottle :-[.
One label is at the top and is a collar label (like on a Heinz sauce bottle although the larger label is the wrong shape to be that) and the screw top has been removed. I am not sure it is a beer bottle as the shape seems a bit wrong.
So my guess if it is a waitress holding the bottle could it be either a sauce or relish bottle?
The lady looks slightly embaressed to be in the photo or perhaps because she has to hold the bottle :) Still trying to figure out why the bottle's there. Unless it's a product from the factory behind but if so why can we not see the label more clearly.
Jean
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You know, I'm still doubtful that this is the Seven Seas building. There were lots of buildings in this art deco style, including the very famous Hoover building in London.
2 reasons....
1. The vertical columns either side of the door are stepped out a lot less than in the Seven Seas building.
2. An art-deco building of this period would probably have been listed, so it's very unlikely to have been torn down or substantially changed.
Maybe the archives at the Seven Seas company will turn up something ?
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Thanks everyone for continuing to scratch your heads along with me! I've contacted Seven Seas and waiting to see if they respond, an email is my first attempt but if I don't hear anything by the end of the week I may send in a letter as it's such an unusual request and they have a business to look after! I'm also looking into getting the picture into the Flashback series in Hull to see if that gets any further information. It could well be somewhere other than Hull and a 'trip' or 'event' of some kind, I'm just pretty clueless!
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Well, this may first appear to be a joke, but it isn't - have you thought about contacting John Prescott ? He was brought up in that area, wasn't he ? And he was a mrechant seaman, so could have some knowledge of the dock area.
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I think I'll leave that as a last resort! But thanks for the suggestion.
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For what it's worth, it looks like a clear glass Cordial bottle to me, possibly lime?
Guy
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Reply #61 :)
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Because of the label at the top of the bottle, I'm more inclined to see it as a cordial / soft drink than a beer or medicine. However it is impossible to read the labels sadly.
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The lady may also have appeared in a number of the company's advertising promotions.
Yes. It's just struck me that it could be a cardboard cutout. Thats why the chap behind is holding her in that manner. The men seem to have shadows under their chins, but she doesn't. Likewise her arm across her midriff casts no shadow.
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Because of the label at the top of the bottle, I'm more inclined to see it as a cordial / soft drink than a beer or medicine. However it is impossible to read the labels sadly.
Bearing in mind the dark colour of the contents it could be a bottle of sauce /relish rather than a cordial /soft drink.
Nigel
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Because of the label at the top of the bottle, I'm more inclined to see it as a cordial / soft drink than a beer or medicine. However it is impossible to read the labels sadly.
Bearing in mind the dark colour of the contents it could be a bottle of sauce /relish rather than a cordial /soft drink.
Nigel
Apologies Nigel, I didn't mention this but yes, I wouldn't rule out a sauce either! Again, because of the style of labelling/shape of the bottle.
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The lady may also have appeared in a number of the company's advertising promotions.
Yes. It's just struck me that it could be a cardboard cutout. Thats why the chap behind is holding her in that manner. The men seem to have shadows under their chins, but she doesn't. Likewise her arm across her midriff casts no shadow.
Sorry, I don't agree. When you blow the photo up, you can clearly see the shadow of the woman's left arm (the one with the watch) on the hand on her hip. Also there are wisps of her hair across the face of the man on her right, which a cardboard cutout would not create. Also, you can see the lady's left foot in the gap between the shoes of the man in front of her.
Something quite insignificant I did notice - there are stains on the road either side of the group, which suggests that cars were normally parked either side of the door.
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Something quite insignificant I did notice
I don't think anything is insignificant at the moment, no matter how small! It's all creating a fuller picture.
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Could it be a Schweppes mixer bottle?
Could the building be a Halfway House Hotel or pub on the A64 between Hull and York?
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Hi Neil,
I can't make a connection between his occupation and the photo...My Father was a "Bobber" on St. Andrew's Dock in the 50s...he was in Gang 10 and I regularly visited the office on Goulton Street on Bankside to get the "Bobber's Orders which were hung on a chalk board in the window of the office...It would often show which gang was required and and the time of landing...for example...a pair of hands displayed with the number 2 on the board would mean "All Hands at 2" which meant all Bobbers to report to the docks at 2 a.m.
He wore clogs, spats and always carried a "Bobber's Hook" to catch the baskets of fish as they were swung off the the deck of the trawler during discharge.
http://www.mylearning.org/jpage.asp?jpageid=2630&journeyid=549
Back to the photo...I agree that it was some kind of launch for a product and the lady appears dressed for a promotion of some sort.
The presence of the lady in what appears to be a waitress outfit and the guy at the back wearing a white coat could be significant in the production or sales of whatever is in the bottle...I know the there was a lemonade factory called Murden's that was down Manchester Street off Hessle Road...I think it was a depot for empty lemonade bottles.
Carol
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I noticed the road too and think it's a "hard standing" for parked vehicles and not an actual public road because of the closeness of the joints. There were quite a few white premises like this one in and around the Hull area. I've surfed trying to find a suitable building on the roads which ran alongside the seven miles of docks, plus the city centre, without any luck. The only website I could not gain access to was Hull's own official photographic street archives.
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Thanks Carol, that's a great insight into a 'bobber' - and I didn't know any of it! I agree the link probably isn't his occupation, but outside interest or something he became involved with via a group of either work colleagues or friends. It definitely looks like a launch or celebration of some kind of product. I didn't know about the lemonade factory, do you think it was a 30's style white building??!!
Rena - much appreciated trawl along the seven miles of docks! Thank you very much for looking into that. I will have to see about a visit to the History Centre in Hull to see if I can get a look at those photographic street archives!
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There's another couple of things that have struck me about this picture. One is that many of the men seem to be halfway through a cigarette. If this was a formal pre-arranged posed photo, they would have been ready for it, and maybe would not have been smoking. The other thing I noticed is that many of the men seem to be holding one (and sometimes two) small objects. This could have been cigarettes, but why carry cigarettes, when you are wearing a jacket ?
I still think that this is a works outing - the reflection in the window could have been the bus. I don't think the woman would have gone along (she wasn't dressed for it), but may have been called out to pose for the photo.
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Who was the little guy on the end?
His tie was outside his cardigan, which suggests that he had only put it on for the photo to be taken.
Was he from the stores or was he the bus driver?
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Who was the little guy on the end?...Was he from the stores or was he the bus driver?
From the stores? I'm not sure I follow?
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He isnt dressed in the same style of clothes as the other guys, and he is not close up to his neighbours, there is space between him and the person next to him, while most of the other people are touching each other. He just looks like the odd man out and I wonder whether we can deduce anything from that observation.
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Hi Neil....Here is a link to help you to resize the larger files for posting the rescans:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,372537.0.html
Carol
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Thanks Carol, I will have a look through that guide, however I don't think the larger files offer much more unfortunately due to the original being small and perhaps slightly blurred.
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Just to let you all know that I haven't given up!
I have contacted the Hull Daily Mail who will be running a piece with this photo and two others I'm looking for further information on in the Hull Daily Mail's Flashback Daily section on Thursday, March 17!
Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions and ideas.
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FYI:
Here's a link to a short film/article done about St. Andrew's Fish Dock/Bobbers in the 1960s.
No bottles! But I thought you might enjoy it anyway ;D
Deborah
http://www.yfaonline.com/assetDetails.cfm?film=2249&keyword=
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I thought the bottle looked like Rose's lime stuff...but as I'm not English I'm probably way off. Schweppes acquired Rose's in 1957, but I couldn't locate any factories in the Hull area.
Cheers,
China
I'm a late entrant into this and I've only had time to speed-read all the posts but my initial thought on seeing the pic was Roses Lime Juice - 1950s.
Maggie :)
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I've been fiddling ;D
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Good try, but I think the shape and colour is wrong. Since it's fairly apparent that the woman in the picture is a waitress of some kind, I think the bottle is far more likely to be a condiment or sauce of some sort :)
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Perhaps this has been said before but the glass of the bottle looks embossed.
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Maggie, what you may be seeing is what's called the 'artefacts' caused by the digital compression of the image. This can cause patterns on the picture, which could be confused with an embossed pattern on the bottle :)
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For no other reason than I've done it, here is a 1947 bottle of Roses Lime cordial. I don't think it fits the bill as the label is different, but the bottle does look thinner than the modern one.
.... and I haven't 'doctored' it - honest ;D
Red post - hmmm maybe, not entirely convinced though, Nick :-\
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To me, the top of the label seems to have a 'By Royal Appointment' logo (going on a very vague shape), then there seems to be a light rectangle which possibly is where the name went, then underneath that there appears to be more writing in an arc. Of course, we all make out our own shapes in an 'ink blot test' :)
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As identification of the bottle will probably hold the key to information about this photo, have any bottle collectors' forums been consulted? It's quite possible someone who has one of these bottles will recognise it even in its blurry form. :)
Heather
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I think the beer bottle theory was discounted early on, because they didn't have paper around the neck.
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Bottle collectors don't exclusively collect beer bottles do they? Perhaps a packaging museum like Robert Opie might recognise it?
p.s. lots of beer bottles do have neck labels nowadays and probably would have done at the time of the photo too. Personally I think it looks more like a sauce bottle though. :)
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I'm fairly sure that in earlier times, beer bottles had a thin strip label that went over the stopper and was fixed to the neck either side, to indicate if the bottle had been opened. As a kid in the 1950's, we used to go and get granny her bottle of pale ale, and it was packaged as I described. The label didn't go all the way around the neck.
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I came across this site: http://www.nscfandco.com/ and think they might be able to identify the product in the photo. There's a contact name at the bottom of the page and if you have no objections I'd like to send him a link to this thread. There's a collector's fair on Sunday 20th February and maybe they would display a copy of the photo and ask visitors if they know anything about the bottle?
If you'd rather contact him yourself Essenchill then that's great - let me know if you'd like me to drop him a line :D
Heather
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A link on that site - the The British Bottle Forum (http://www.britishbottleforum.co.uk/index.php) looked promising too, but unfortunately you can't see any of the gallery images without joining the forum, and I didn't really want to do that.
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I came across this site: http://www.nscfandco.com/ and think they might be able to identify the product in the photo. There's a contact name at the bottom of the page and if you have no objections I'd like to send him a link to this thread. There's a collector's fair on Sunday 20th February and maybe they would display a copy of the photo and ask visitors if they know anything about the bottle?
If you'd rather contact him yourself Essenchill then that's great - let me know if you'd like me to drop him a line :D
Heather
No issues with you doing that Heather, please do.
Thanks for the spot of the British Bottle Forum Nick, I will look into that one.
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Hi Essenchill
I've emailed the contact at nscfandco.com and given a link to this thread. Will let you know if I get a reply direct to my mailbox.
Fingers crossed! ;D
Heather
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I've now signed up to the British Bottle Forum, and posted the picture and the bottle close ups to ask if anyone can help with identification. I will continue to post any progress.
Heather - thanks for that, I look forward to any news we get from there and thanks again to Nick for the link to British Bottle Forum.