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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Nottinghamshire => England => Nottinghamshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lady penelope on Friday 21 January 11 19:36 GMT (UK)

Title: william allen
Post by: lady penelope on Friday 21 January 11 19:36 GMT (UK)
can anybody help to find a birth cert.of william allen born between 1869/1871
basford or brinsley nottingham
                              thankyou lady penelope
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Pels. on Friday 21 January 11 19:59 GMT (UK)



Hi lady penelope,

Welcome to RootsChat ! :)

The problem is, there are three people with this name registered during the
time scale in the Basford district. Do you know if William had a middle name ?

Birth, Jun qtr 1870
William Allen            
Basford, Vol 7b, page 93

Birth, Dec qtr 1870
William Edwin Allen
Basford, Vol 7b, page 140

Birth, Jun qtr 1871
William Lacey Allen
Basford, Vol 7b, page 156

http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Kind regards,

Pels.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: sunflower on Saturday 22 January 11 08:20 GMT (UK)
Hi

According to the Notts FHS Baptism CD there are 5 bapt around that time

William Arthur to William & Mary Ellen 11.11.1870 at Worksop St John, Brewer
 
William to John & Elizabeth 22.10.1871 Worksop St John, Labourer, 55 Gateford Road.
 
William to William & Mary 6. 1.1871 Stnienton St Stephens, FWK, Woodland St

William to Samuel & Elizabeth 7.5.1871 Bulwell St Marys, Potter

William to Thomas Roger & Emma 11.12 1871 Arnold, FWK

Arnold & Bulwell are both in the Basford Reg district.

Carol
 
 
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: lady penelope on Saturday 22 January 11 09:45 GMT (UK)
hi pels
           thanks for the infomation, not knowing if he had another christian name
or any brothers and sisters. all i know that he lived in eastwood,greasley and worked for major barber as a servant and a farm labourer married alice knighton in the year 6-6-1892 at brinsley on marriage cert his father name joseph allen labourer.
                        kind regards 
                                            lady penelope
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: lady penelope on Saturday 22 January 11 09:57 GMT (UK)
hi sunflower,
                   thanks for the info. not knowing if he had brothers or sisters
all i know is he lived in greasley and eastwood,and worked for major  barber when he was 20 years of age/servant later a farm labourer married alice knighton on the 6-6-1892 at brinsley on his marriage cert father name joseph allen labourer
                       kind regards
                                            lady penelope
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Pels. on Saturday 22 January 11 10:59 GMT (UK)




Hi again,

In 1871 there's a family living in Bulwell, which is in the Basford registration distrct. William, age 2 with parents Joseph and Eliza. There is an initial for William which I can't read. Do you have access to the census returns, or would you like the details ?  :)

Pels.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Dizzifish on Saturday 22 January 11 11:00 GMT (UK)
Hello everyone.... :)

I have just had a look for William and looking at the census I see in 1901 -  RG13/ 3144/ 156/ 14.-  on that William says he was born in Leicestershire.

On the 1911 William says he was born in Skeffington, Leicestershire.

If this is the case the more likely birth registration would be this one;

Births DecQ 1869
Allen  William -  Billesdon  7a 28

But the only William I can see born Skeffington has a father John..... ::)

Can anyone else spot him?


Kind regards


Sheila
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 22 January 11 11:42 GMT (UK)
1881 census he is with Father Joseph, Labourer, born c 1835, James Daking, Lincs in Notts.
Back soon with Census.
(making a cup of tea!)
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 22 January 11 11:54 GMT (UK)
Now not so sure as what you have posted Sheila has him born Leics 1901/1911.
will post possible anyhow;

1881 Census
Babworth, Nottinghamshire
RGB11/3303/7/10
Joseph ALLEN, 46, Head, Mar, Labourer, born James Daking, Lincolnshire
Eliza, 37, Wife, Mar, born Santry, Huntingdonshire
Kate, 18, Daug, Unm, General Servant, born Spalding, Lincs
Elizabeth, 14, Daug, Unm, Scholar, born London, Middlesex
WILLIAM, 12, Son, Scholar, born Welham, Nottinghamshire
Agnes, 8, Daug, Scholar, born Gamston, Nottinghamshire

Trish :)
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Dizzifish on Saturday 22 January 11 12:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Trish....

It is a bit of a puzzle.... would be grateful if someone could confirm my 1901 and 1911 findings......but I don't think I have made a whopper.

It would also explain why we can't pin a birth registration for him in Basford reg or Nottinghamshire?

Plus it seems the Allen family only appeared in Skeffington after 1861......except that father is John....although his son William had a brother Joseph.

Lots more picking apart to do to get to the bottom of it... :D

Sheila.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: trish1120 on Saturday 22 January 11 12:11 GMT (UK)
Hi Sheila,
Yes in 1901 you are correct, born c 1870, Leics.

Re the one I found;
1891 that one seems to be born 1871 Oakham, Rutland in living in Greasley, Notts.
Place of Birth is dittoed from person above so may be incorrect.
1871 seems to be George W Allen (indexed as Wallen) born c 1870, Wellam, Notts, living in Gamston, Notts with Joseph/Eliza
RG10/3454/83/3
RG12/2661/5/3

What do you think Sheila.?
Family seemed to move around a lot.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Pels. on Saturday 22 January 11 14:05 GMT (UK)




As for me  ::)  I'm so pleased I was called away before I typed out all that for nothing ! I know the trees on Ancestry quite often count for nothing, but I've just had a quick peek and someone on there appears to agree with your findings Sheila and Trish !! Good one, hopefully 'lady penelope' should be chuffed with this !!   :) :)

Pels.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Dizzifish on Saturday 22 January 11 15:03 GMT (UK)
Hi Pels.....

I did have a quick look on Ancestry trees but the one I looked at also had the father as Joseph....it seems they haven't any other details? and like you say the trees aren't always accurate.

Sheila.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Pels. on Saturday 22 January 11 15:32 GMT (UK)


Hi Sheila,
Yes in 1901 you are correct, born c 1870, Leics.

Re the one I found;
1891 that one seems to be born 1871 Oakham, Rutland in living in Greasley, Notts.
Place of Birth is dittoed from person above so may be incorrect.
1871 seems to be George W Allen (indexed as Wallen) born c 1870, Wellam, Notts, living in Gamston, Notts with Joseph/Eliza
RG10/3454/83/3
RG12/2661/5/3

What do you think Sheila.?
Family seemed to move around a lot.

It was with regards to this one Sheila - Trish followed on from your reply  :)

Pels.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: lady penelope on Saturday 22 January 11 16:49 GMT (UK)
hi everybody,
                    thankyou for all the info. it's very helpful to my search for the elusive william. could you  please send the details as i have no access to the census returns as yet
                                many thanks to all
                                              lady penelope
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Dizzifish on Saturday 22 January 11 17:09 GMT (UK)
Oooh I had just typed this up before I realised you had posted.......hope it is ok?

It seems to me that none of us are sure which William it could be when trying to trace him going backwards.

With his father's name given as Joseph you would think that would help but the ones on offer so far I am not so sure about.

Still a lot of questions.... I wonder if Joseph was his father's name....maybe that's only what he thought it was? surprising if he didn't but I have heard that sort of thing has happened.

What were the witnesses on the marriage entry for William & Alice....would that give any other clues?

Until anyone can up with anything else I think he belongs to the Skeffington, Leicestershire Allen family.

1861 - No Allen's in Skeffington

1871 - RG10/3228/16/page9 - Skeffington, Leicestershire
Parents - John & Mary Anne Allen
Children all born Skeffington =
James 8, Emma 6, Charles 4, Thomas 3 and WILLIAM aged 1

1881 - RG11/3123/67/page 8 - Tilton, Leicstershire.
John Allen, head, aged 51, Shepherd, born Mowsley, Leicestershire.
James 19, Emma 16, Thomas 13, WILLIAM 11, Joseph 9,George 7,Alfred 5 - all these born Skeffington
Mary Ann Allen aged 3, daughter - born Tilton Wood, Leicestershire.

Other things I have found for the Skeffington Allen family are;

Burial at Skeffington
Joseph Allen - 13th January 1871 - aged 11 years

Burials at Tilton on the Hill
Mary Anne Allen - 15th April 1879 - aged 43
John Allen - 8th May 1884 - aged 54

It seems when the parents died the family dispersed in various places, in 1891 George is still in Leicestershire, Joseph is in Plumtree, Nottinghamshire.

1901 - Thomas is in Connisborough, Alfred is in Ilkeston, Derbyshire and James is in Cottesbrooke, Northamptonshire.

If only this family had Joseph as the father I would be convinced it was  the correct family........ :'(
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: lady penelope on Saturday 22 January 11 17:36 GMT (UK)
hi dizzifish and others,
                thanks for info. the dates and names i have are of the same.so i hope this is the william i have been looking for will do some more digging and will let you know my findings
                                            many many thanks
                                                                 lady penelope
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Pels. on Saturday 22 January 11 17:54 GMT (UK)


Oh heck, I thought Trish had the right family - the father's name was Joseph.


Hi Sheila,
Yes in 1901 you are correct, born c 1870, Leics.

Re the one I found;
1891 that one seems to be born 1871 Oakham, Rutland in living in Greasley, Notts.
Place of Birth is dittoed from person above so may be incorrect.
1871 seems to be George W Allen (indexed as Wallen) born c 1870, Wellam, Notts, living in Gamston, Notts with Joseph/Eliza
RG10/3454/83/3
RG12/2661/5/3

What do you think Sheila.?
Family seemed to move around a lot.

1871 census:
RG10/3454, Folio 83, Page 3

Nottinghamshire, Gamston
Side House

Joseph Allen, h. mar, 33, Farm Labourer, b. Lincoln, Deeping
Eliza Allen, wife, 27, b. Lincoln, St James
Kate Allen, dau, 7, Scholar, b. Lincoln, Spalding
Elizabeth  Allen, dau, 3, b. Middlesex, London
George W Allen, son, 1, b. Notts, Wellam

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
   
1881 census :
RG11/3303, Folio 7, Page 10

Nottinghamshire, Babworth

Joseph Allen, h, mar, 46, Ag Lab, b. Lincs, James Deeping
Eliza, wife mar, 37, b. Huntingdon, Sawtry
Kate, dau, unm, 18, General Servant, b. Lincs, Spalding
Elizabeth, dau, 14, Scholar, b. London
William, son, 12, b. Notts, Welham
Agnes, dau, 8, b. Notts, Gamston

Added : Sorry Trish, I reposted the 1881 to put together that and the 1871, I'm getting so confused by all this I missed you'd already posted it.


Pels.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Pels. on Saturday 22 January 11 18:10 GMT (UK)




1891 census:
RG12/2661, Folio 5 Page 3

Nottinghamshire, Greasley
Brinsley, Manor House

William Allen, serv, single, 20, Farm Servant, b. Rutland, Oakham

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As Trish has already said :


1891 that one seems to be born 1871 Oakham, Rutland in living in Greasley, Notts.
Place of Birth is dittoed from person above so may be incorrect.




married alice knighton in the year 6-6-1892 at brinsley on marriage cert his father name joseph allen labourer.
                       

I don't think this one can be in question because he married in Brinsley.

Pels.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Dizzifish on Saturday 22 January 11 18:28 GMT (UK)
Hi all.....lady penelope

You are welcome to the help and I would be interested what else you discover.

Just out of interest......... have you a copy or actually seen William Allen and Alice Knighton's marriage certificate?
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Pels. on Saturday 22 January 11 18:33 GMT (UK)



Last one :

1901 census:
RG13/3144, Folio 156, Page 14

Nottinghamshire, Eastwood
Mansfield Road

William Allen, h. mar, 31, b. Leicester
Alice, wife 30, b. Notts, Brinsley
Elizabeth, dau 6
Alice Amelia, dau, 4

Both children born in Brinsley.

I'm afraid I can't make out William's occupation - something on farm, possibly Cattleman.

(http://img836.imageshack.us/img836/2708/1901w.jpg)

Pels.
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: Dizzifish on Saturday 22 January 11 18:54 GMT (UK)
The 1891 census with William Allen is the likely one as he is in the village of Brinsley..... the confusion is because his place of birth is dittoed as Oakham, Rutland from the entry above - as Trish pointed out.

Baptisms at Eastwood - parents William & Alice Allen
LILY ALLEN - 18th March 1893 - fathers occupation = Ostler (notes - Private) - abode Eastwood
ELIZABETH ALLEN - 24th June 1894 - fathers occupation = Coal Miner - abode Eastwood
ALICE AMELIA ALLEN - 29th November 1896 - fathers occupation = Coal Miner - abode Eastwood

Burial at Eastwood
LILY ALLEN - 29th April 1893 - aged 5 months
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: lady penelope on Sunday 23 January 11 10:32 GMT (UK)
hi dizzifish and all,
                                thankyou i have a marriage cert. the job title which is unreadable is that he his a cattle man working for major barber farm at greasley notts. will keep you all posted on results that i find

                                          with kind regards
                                            lady penelope
Title: Re: william allen
Post by: lady penelope on Sunday 23 January 11 11:02 GMT (UK)
hi dizzifish,
                  did not realise that there was another child named lily allen before the others. on the 25th september 1901 george william allen was born.
i think that george was the last child.
                                           with many thanks
                                                                     lady penelope