RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => The Lighter Side => Topic started by: kojak on Thursday 20 January 11 20:40 GMT (UK)
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Hi Folks,
If anyone is interested about what the 2011 census holds in store, have a peek at this website:
http://www.celsius.lshtm.ac.uk/modules/forms/census2011.pdf
Cheers
Kojak and Redspookhunter
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Some of the questions are a bit intrusive.
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I would say very intrusive!
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Some of the questions are also difficult or impossible to answer. For example, question 28, If a job had been available last week could you have started it within two weeks? The answer to the question probably depends on the location of the job relative to where the person is currently living and whether relocation would be required. It could, therefore, be yes and no.
Nigel
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I'm glad I'm not one of our ancestors who had ten children or more - the form would be never ending!!
Fairlane
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I would say very intrusive!
I agree .. something tells me they could find a lot of people objecting or refusing to fill it in completely. I don't see why they need the info on jobs anyway, among other things. Perhaps they think they'll catch out benefit cheats ....
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What a horrible form, and that is only going on the visuals!
What ever happened to keeping things clear, and simple and uncluttered...?
This just seems bewildering.
Copperbeech5
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I would suggest that, bearing in mind the Census is for statistical purposes, the questions have good reason behind it all. The details are not to be revealed for 100 years anyway, as with the other Censuses, so I doubt whether there is a question of 'catching anyone out'.
I was surprised when I saw the 1911 Census details of length of time persons were married, details of how many children were born to the marriage,and how many had died, until I learned that these questions were to assess the fertility of the nation. I understand now, that all these questions have a bearing on future Government planning for this Nation,and assessment of how successful (or otherwise) historic planning has proved.
Having just applied for a job as Census Collector, my only concern is that this will entail many more requests for help in completing the form. This will be a major part, I think, of the Collectors' work.
giraffe
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Very intrusive!
Theres a few questions on there i will NOT be answering believe me!
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I think if you read it carefully, it's no more complicated or intrusive than many other forms you might be asked to fill in eg for a mortgage or insurance quote.
The information requested is probably all available to the various agencies you already deal with (inland revenue, job centre, pensions office, mortgage lender etc) but not currently in one place.
Just think how much harder family history would be without past census information :)
Linda
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Unlike the last census this one actually has a tick box for anyone of ENGLISH nationality
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How many children will end up on the census twice because, like my step son, they live half the time with mum and half the time with dad and both homes are considered their "home" ???
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Looks pretty straightforward to me. I guess that the area that will cause the most upset is the bit about how long you intend to stay in the UK - immigration is a big issue these days, I suppose they would love to know how many EU nationals are here short term or long term. However, it won't persuade many illegal immigrants to fill in the form!
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Unlike the last census this one actually has a tick box for anyone of ENGLISH nationality
Yes I like that one ;D
Have just been reading that a third of all Londoners were born in a different country!
I suppose this form will tell the government what the figure really is.
Carol
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Just think how much harder family history would be without past census information :)
At least the older censuses asked people where they were born. The 2011 census doesn't ask this question so it will be less help for family history.
Nigel
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Unlike the last census this one actually has a tick box for anyone of ENGLISH nationality
Not as far as I can see from the form. It seems that you will be able to make a choice on NATIONAL IDENTITY but that is a personal viewpoint and quite a different matter from Nationality. That's not my view, it's a fact. As far as Nationality is concerned we all remain British.
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I noticed there was a blank section on one of the pages - maybe that was to insert any questions they'd omitted in the first instance.
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link=topic=508436.msg3649821#msg3649821 date=1295570901]
At least the older censuses asked people where they were born. The 2011 census doesn't ask this question so it will be less help for family history.
Nigel
Nigel - on page 7 it does ask where you were born and lists England, Scotland, N Ireland, etc.
Cuthie
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Wish it did even just that on the 1841 Census, rather than 'not born in County' - might have been a help to get around my brick wall!
giraffe
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Nigel - on page 7 it does ask where you were born and lists England, Scotland, N Ireland, etc.
Cuthie
It only asks for the person's country of birth and not specific place of birth. Someone looking at the 2011 census in, say, 100 years time for a John Smith and being faced with numerous John Smiths all born in England, without any indication of a city, town or even a county, is not going to find it very helpful. Even the 1841 census asked if the person was born in the county.
Nigel
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That's interesting. This time last year I was contacted by the Department of Statistics (or something like that) to ask if I would take part in a National survey. I agreed and was visited by a woman who asked me a series of questions. Every 3 months since then, I have been telephoned and asked to go through the questions again to see if anything had changed. The last and final time was this Monday. Looking at the section on the census for individual questions, they are virtually the same as I was asked. ??? ???
Jan
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Cuthie
Even the 1841 census asked if the person was born in the county.
Nigel
And when the record says 'no' you are left with an ancestor who has a fairly common name, and still no idea where to look!!
giraffe
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At least the older censuses asked people where they were born. The 2011 census doesn't ask this question so it will be less help for family history.
It does seem rather odd that they have taken it out. You would think they would be interested to know how many people move away from where they were born. Maybe there are expecting a large number born outside the UK and think that the variety of places of birth will be too many for them.
Milly
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I guess there's nothing stopping people adding specific birthplace information if they want. When the digital versions of what we fill in are made publicly available in 2112, our extra info will be there for our descendants, whether the government in 2011 wanted it or not! :P
It's similar to all the men and widowed women who erroneously, but very usefully for us, filled in the 'years married' and 'children' boxes in 1911.
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In 1911 census my grandmother gave herself a few more years married to cover the two children born before marriage, so it isn't necessarily accurate.
Jean
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I guess in 100 years time family historians won't be so reliant on the census returns as we are to find out town of birth as more records will be available to them.
Carole
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I guess in 100 years time family historians won't be so reliant on the census returns as we are to find out town of birth as more records will be available to them.
Carole
Unfortunately, although there are potentially more records today which could be available many of them are destroyed.
Nigel
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I guess in 100 years time family historians won't be so reliant on the census returns as we are to find out town of birth as more records will be available to them.
Carole
Unfortunately, although there are potentially more records today which could be available many of them are destroyed.
Also, the most obvious source of PoB is the birth index, but this only gives the registration district, not the town. In sparsely populated areas one RD can cover a lot of places. This is one major advantage of the UK censuses over the US/Canadian ones: the former generally give parish (or smaller unit) of birth in rural areas, and town elsewhere, while the North American ones just give state or province.
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Also, the most obvious source of PoB is the birth index, but this only gives the registration district, not the town. In sparsely populated areas one RD can cover a lot of places. This is one major advantage of the UK censuses over the US/Canadian ones: the former generally give parish (or smaller unit) of birth in rural areas, and town elsewhere, while the North American ones just give state or province.
Although the GRO index will provide this information (assuming it is publicly available in the future) you do, of course, need to know where to start looking in the index. If, for example, you have an Ann Smith in the 2011 Census, indicated only as born in England, where do you start? There are too many possibilities for an Ann Smith.
Nigel
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I'm really imagining that in 100 years time family historians will have other ways of gathering information than sitting in front of a computer in their spare rooms looking through the GRO indexes and trying to decide which Ann Smith is the one they are looking for - technology will have moved on so much in that time. Think how much life has changed in the last 100 years.
That is supposing that there will be a 100 year closure on the census.
Carole
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The means for looking at records will no doubt change significantly in the next 100 years. However, the next 100 years won't alter the information that is collected in 2011. Today we are looking at the same 19th, 18th etc century records as our ancestors would have looked at in 1911 (except that some have been destroyed or lost) although we can now search for them more easily and look at them on a computer, in a Records Office etc.
Nigel
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I must say it concerns me a little that we are not asking for a place of birth. It MUST be a valuable metric. Every previous census asked for it to some extent.
Nowadays we generate huge volumes of easily recordable digital data in our daily natural lives merely by existing in a technological world. I hope we do not fall into the complacency trap of assuming that that data will be recorded for posterity. Many opinions suggest that this data should, by default, NOT be recorded.
Paul
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I suppose we could all lie just as some of our ancestors have and no one would be any the wiser untill another 100 years.
If your memory is a bit dodgy too there is room for error.
I dont own a passport which is one of the questions too.
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Does anyone know why Question 17 (page 8 ) has been included? :-\
http://www.celsius.lshtm.ac.uk/modules/forms/census2011.pdf
Nigel
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Cos they were goign to ask some other daft question,but then thought better of it? ;D ;D ;D
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It is a question that appears on the welsh one (I think it is possibly about welsh language speaking) but not in england but to keep the numbers for the questions the same they have left it in but blank! Nothing sinister ;D
Milly ;D
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My only concern is the religion question, as the gov TV advert says this census helps plan for the future, what am I missing? what plans do the gov have for religion?
Confused monicameg
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They'll be able to knock down a few churches if none of us are religious anymore ;D ;D ;D
Carol
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It states The Householder should complete the form and their definition of a householder is:
The householder is the person who lives, or is present, at this address who:
• owns / rents (or jointly owns / rents) the accommodation; and / or
• is responsible (or jointly responsible) for paying the household bills and expenses
Now, that applies to me as much as my husband, but I bet they expect the man to complete the form. However, I will be doing it. My husband hates filling in forms and whenever he has one to do he gives it to me, even if I have to keep asking him for the info. ::)
Lizzie
Modified By the way, I do lots of surveys for money or vouchers and as far as I can see most of the questions on the census don't ask for any more info than the surveys which are carried out by private organisations for private companies or government.
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The religion question is the only voluntary one so a bit pointless as a statistical exercise anyway.
I doubt they have any specific plans - but without knowing any numbers they can't really make any.
Personally I think given the current climate, knowing the numbers who claim a specific religion in this country would be quite useful..not in a negative way - but for the provision of facilities, education etc.
At the moment, with it being a voluntary question, the results will be skewd - with only those with strong feelings being counted (or not counted).
Milly
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Just had a look and I'm now trying to work out what box to tick for my three year old when it asks how well they speak English! Is that well for an English person or well for a three year old?
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Just had a look and I'm now trying to work out what box to tick for my three year old when it asks how well they speak English! Is that well for an English person or well for a three year old?
Perhaps the answer to Question 18 is English so that you ignore Question 19 and move on to Question 20.
Nigel
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Just had a look and I'm now trying to work out what box to tick for my three year old when it asks how well they speak English! Is that well for an English person or well for a three year old?
Perhaps the answer to Question 18 is English so that you ignore Question 19 and move on to Question 20.
Nigel
Doh! Must read previous questions first! Although I am a little disappointed that I cannot fill that question in for him... I was quite enjoying idea of my descendants having to interpret that one!
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Doh! Must read previous questions first! Although I am a little disappointed that I cannot fill that question in for him... I was quite enjoying idea of my descendants having to interpret that one!
Well I can imagine some families who are only temporarily living in the UK, whose first language is not English, and who have a child under, say, age 1 having some problems with Questions 18 and 19. ;D
Nigel
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My two and half year old grandson can sya NO very clearly,does that count ;D
He can also say Kit Kat even before the cupboard is open ;D ;D
Carol
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Out of interest - the question about what passport do you hold - which box do you put the cross in if you have had one but it has expired?
Carole
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That's a good question Carole- we both have expired passports ?
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An expired passport is not a passport any more - it is only an interesting old document. If you don't have a current passport, you should not tick any boxes.
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An expired passport is not a passport any more - it is only an interesting old document.
Belonging to a couple of interesting old fogies ;D
Thanks for the info Nick.
Carol
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Well I've still got mine but it expired about 15 years ago - as I had no plans to travel abroad it didn't seem worth the cost of buying a new one and I don't really imagine I'll ever want one again, but increasingly they seem to be used as means of identification. So I haven't got a current passport - the next question is "have you got a driving licence?" yup, but it's an old pink one, so even that gets viewed with suspicion by some people. I don't pay the utility bills, so I don't have them in my name - I've virtually become a non-person!
Carole
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Have to admit I've only just seen this thread but my first reaction is ... 'Ye gods' - I would have read it all but there was a danger of falling asleep! And I've lost count of the number of times I have to enter my name - presumably they're working on the same assumption as when you had to write your address on the back of a cheque - that'd you'd put 'Duke of Westminster' on the front but '3 Railway Cuttings' on the back!!
Anomalous or what? H1 - who usually lives here? No-one, it's a holiday home - so ... if no-one's there how are they going to fill in the form?
So then we come to the wonderful wording of H5 'If there is no-one usually living here (there are only visitors staying here) answer questions H7 to H11 on page 6 and then go to the back page (page 32) to answer the Visitor questions Ah, but what if there aren't any visitors either?
And H14 - how many cars are available? Well, mine ... and my husband's but he's abroad for more than 12 months; I use my daughters' cars occasionally but they don't live here; my cousin lives 3 street away, I use her car sometimes .... shall I go on?
In a previous life I worked for the Police - the answer to questions 35, 37, and 38 is always going to be 'Enforcement of law and order and prevention and detection of crime' - it's the Police for heaven's sake.
OK, OK, so it's the statistics they're after, but it does have the smack of 'statistics are used like a drunk uses a lamp-post ... for support rather than illumination'
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Well, 'in the old days' you used to hang on to old passports because they might contain a visa which didn't expire with the passport. One of my old passports contains a visa for the USA which had no expiry date and allowed me to stay in the US for up to 6 months at a time, if I recall correctly. Unfortunately they cancelled all of these after 9/11.
What other use is there for old passports, other than tracking the ravages of time on our faces ? :o :'(
Incidentally, you also need either a valid passport, or a photo drivers licence to board a plane travelling within the UK these days, again because of the Prevention of Terror regulations.
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Incidentally, you also need either a valid passport, or a photo drivers licence to board a plane travelling within the UK these days, again because of the Prevention of Terror regulations.
That's interesting Nick - thanks.
My passport expired a few years back- I HATE flying,but may have to oneday in the future :(
I only have one of those green paper driving licences too,so I'd be stuck having no photo ID wouldn't I ;D
Carol
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Well, 'in the old days' you used to hang on to old passports because they might contain a visa which didn't expire with the passport. One of my old passports contains a visa for the USA which had no expiry date and allowed me to stay in the US for up to 6 months at a time, if I recall correctly. Unfortunately they cancelled all of these after 9/11.
What other use is there for old passports, other than tracking the ravages of time on our faces ? :o :'(
Incidentally, you also need either a valid passport, or a photo drivers licence to board a plane travelling within the UK these days, again because of the Prevention of Terror regulations.
That's why we've never gone to visit my OH's relatives in the far north of Scotland ;D I'm blowed if I'm going to go to the expense of buying a passport just to travel within my own country!
Carole
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What other use is there for old passports, other than tracking the ravages of time on our faces ? :o :'(
They can be of use in proving identity and nationality when applying for something. Some places will accept them, others won't.
Nigel
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Out of interest - the question about what passport do you hold - which box do you put the cross in if you have had one but it has expired?
An expired passport is not a passport any more - it is only an interesting old document. If you don't have a current passport, you should not tick any boxes.
The notes at the following link indicate that you may enter an expired passport, provided you think you are entitled to renew it.
http://2011.census.gov.uk/en/index.php?content_id=1609
Nigel
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From those notes: You may enter an expired passport, as long as you think you are entitled to renew it.
That just makes it more confusing - could I renew a passport that is so out of date? I think I'll just put "no passport"!
Carole
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That just makes it more confusing - could I renew a passport that is so out of date? I think I'll just put "no passport"!
Carole
You can apply to renew your passport if you still have your last passport, it was a standard UK adult 10 year passport, it is undamaged and you do not need to change your name or national status for a new passport. The date the last passport expired is irrelevant (you should be able to renew a passport which expired in the 1990s).
Nigel
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within the UK[/b] these days, again because of the Prevention of Terror regulations.
So .... what you're saying is, when my friend's daughter moves to Scotland in couple of months, she'll have to either have a passport, which she doesn't currently hold (£77.50), or exchange her paper driving licence for a photo, which she has no need to do (£20) in order just to fly up to visit her daughter? But she can get a flight for only £50.
Question .... why don't 'they' issue all those of pensionable age with a free photo ID card?
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i was reading some of the FAQ's and i got myself in a muddle. i am at my mother in laws the 27th. do i fill my form out when i get back on the 28th? and does she have to add me to hers? doesnt that mean ill be on 2 census', thats gonna be confusing for people searching for me in 100 years time isnt it?
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Everyone living or staying in the household on census day must be included on your household questionnaire - even babies. You should also include any visitors staying with you overnight on census day.
If you are included as a visitor at one address, then you don't fill in another questionnaire at a different address.
Stan
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As this census can be completed on line,I presume it can be done before the 27th, otherwise the site will crash if everyone is trying to do it at the same time. I can see a lot of people will be entered twice if they complete it on line and then they spend census night elsewhere.
Someone has also said that you have to enter people who are usually there but are temporarily away from home ie students, those away for work etc. Does that mean they will be recorded twice?
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doesnt that mean ill be on 2 census', thats gonna be confusing for people searching for me in 100 years time isnt it?
That is the problem with any of past censuses- it is a snapshot of one day in time,not a record of where people normally lived. So many of us take it as being the address that nieces and nephews etc usually lived at,when all it is was where everyone was on one particular night.
I'm making sure I stay at home overnight on 27th March,simpler all round ;D
Carol
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these are the two questions i am refering to. they do seem to contracdict each other though.
obviously i will only make sure im entered on one, but it could get confusing for others who have read the same as me
11. What will happen if I'm not at home on 27 March 2011?
You should complete your questionnaire as soon as possible after 27 March 2011. Or do it before you go away if you've already received your questionnaire.
If everyone in the household is away on census day you should complete your questionnaire as soon as possible after your return. If the household is absent for more than six months after census day, you do not need to complete the questionnaire.
Anyone away from home for up to 12 months should still be included on your questionnaire.
20. Who should I include?
Everyone living or staying in the household on census day must be included on your household questionnaire - even babies. You should also include any visitors staying with you overnight on census day.
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It's not often we get to correct stanmapstone, but you DO have to fill out your home questionnaire even if you appear as a visitor elsewhere.
You must fill out your full details on the return for your HOME address even if you are not actually present there on census day. Visitors only have brief details (including usual home address) recorded on the form for the household they are actual present in on the day - in a separate section to prevent double counting in the statistics. So that means rachelralph will appear on 2 returns, but in different categories to avoid confusion.
Individual questions on pages 7-30 for every person who usually lives in this household.
Every person who has been, or intends to be, in the UK for 3 months or more should be included in these
questions at their usual UK address
• Visitor questions on the back page (page 32) for all other people staying overnight in this
household on 27 March 2011
It is important to include visitors staying overnight in this household to make sure no-one is missed. Visitors
who usually live elsewhere in the UK must also be included in a census questionnaire at their usual address.
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ahhhh i see, i think this may be a case of whatmy dad calls RTFQ (read the ..... question) on my part, i should have read all the QaA first before i asked lol ::) ::)
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It's not often we get to correct stanmapstone, but you DO have to fill out your home questionnaire even if you appear as a visitor elsewhere.
Thanks for pointing that out. There have been comments about people not understanding the 1911 census schedule, but it seems a model of simplicity compared to the 2011 one ;D
Stan
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I'm guessing if RootsChatters are questioning what should be filled in and why and are unsure of the correct way of doing it that a huge proportion of the population, who couldn't care less about the census and haven't the slightest interest in what future historians will make of it, will just see it as more State interference in their lives and a total waste of money and aren't going to be very careful or bothered about filling it in properly.
Carole
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i was looking through the questions wondering if my grandmothers estranged husband would even bother to fill it out. he is a 75 year old man, who never answers the front door, was brought up in a gypsy family, hates intrusion of any sort, and will get the census through the post look at it and then bin it!
could be fun for the enumerator to try and find him and get him to fill it in ;D
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I think there will be a lot of chasing up after this census.
Carole
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I had my classroom training session for the post of census collector 2 days ago, and it was mentioned that one of the London boroughs had a very low return rate for the 2001 census, and it is now considered one of the most underprivileged and under-funded areas in the country.
Coincidence ???
Incidentally, I was sat next to a young girl in the training whose father is interested in genealogy, and two other slightly older ladies, one of whom has taken the Pharos Irish course which I took a few weeks ago :)
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Anyone who has not returned it by a certain date should then be visited by a collector to remind them to do it - and if they don't fill it in they will come back again to remind them again.
Good that you fill one it at home even if you are away that night - that's one of the frustrating bits of missing info off the old census we look at. ;D
Happy collecting netgrrl
;D
Milly
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So .... what you're saying is, when my friend's daughter moves to Scotland in couple of months, she'll have to either have a passport, which she doesn't currently hold (£77.50), or exchange her paper driving licence for a photo, which she has no need to do (£20) in order just to fly up to visit her daughter? But she can get a flight for only £50.
Question .... why don't 'they' issue all those of pensionable age with a free photo ID card?
A lot is down to the discretion of the airlines, but most will only accept a photo driving licence or a passport, because these are the only IDs issued by the government. It's best to check with the airlines before you travel, and if you do need a passport or a new driving licence, it will take at least 10 days to get either by post.
I had a lot of problems renewing my passport, because the wretched photo machine in my local supermarket kept telling me that the photo it had just taken 'was not suitable for a passport application', but it didn't tell me why ! In the end, I went to a small post office which did a photo service, where the man took a photo with a Polaroid camera. It turns out that the new regulations say that the photo must show the entire eye, so your eyes must be fully open, but you must not stare - not easy ! ::) You should also not wear glasses for the photo, because the photo flash can reflect in the glasses and obscure the image of the eyes. When I'd filled in the forms and enclosed the photos, I used the Post Office 'Check and Send' service, and I'm glad I did, because I'd filled the forms in with a blue pen, and the authorities only accept black ink ! :o ::)
As for the free ID card idea - well, some would complain about their rights, which would play right into the hands of the government, who do not want to lose all the passport revenue ! :)
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Also your hair must not obscure your face/eyes. So my sister who wears glasses and has a fringe had to remove the glasses and pin back her fringe. Even her husband didn't recognise her. ;D ;D
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Takes off specs - pushes hair off face - gets passport photo taken - sends it off - receives passport - books holiday - takes luggage, children, husband and passport to airport and .... has very long chat with UK Border Agency since passport bears no relation to holder!! :)
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Haha Mogsmum ;D
My hubby has worn glasses since he was a child. No one recognises him without them on. Only me and that's cos I've woken up next to him for the past 38 years sans spectacles :o
He looks very different if he takes them off.Sort of sinister ;D
Good job I won't fly anywhere then !
Carol
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I wouldn't even recognise myself without my specs and my hair swept back ;D
Carole
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I had my classroom training session for the post of census collector 2 days ago
Good luck netgrrl, I was a collector in 2001, and met some really nice people, as well as some difficult ones, mine was a rural area near my home, and I discovered some really beautiful spots around here - that was a bonus.
We also had to check up on a number of people who had not returned their forms, and to help those who needed it to complete their forms.
Any problematic customers we just reported to our Team Leaders.
giraffe
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It's not a case of a UK Border Agency officer recognising you. It's a case of your the pattern of your iris being recognised by the camera that you look into when you enter the country. There is also data about you stored in a microchip retained in the passport which can be read from 15 feet away.
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I too was an Enumerator in 2001. Remember when your 'supervisor' would ring to let you know which forms had been returned? Mine told me of 2 - one a Church Hall with no accommodation, no-one living there and thus no form had been delivered. The other was called 'The Cottage' (which I suppose it had been ... once) - by 2001 it was derelict, no more than a pile of stones with a bit of corrugated sheeting over one corner to provide shelter for a load of pigs. I insisted she couldn't have received a form from it, she insisted she had. George Orwell's Napoleon was clearly alive and well!!
If the shambles my little patch encountered, was repeated just once in each of the others all over the country - gawd 'elp us.
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Hello Mogsmum,
Mine was very much a rural area, lots of big houses with electric entrance gates etc. Didn't I feel regal as I sailed through them in my little Fiat!
I did have to follow up several people, a few unable to read and write (!), one partially sighted man, a couple of premises where they simply refused to complete the form, and two who railed at me because they were eating their evening meal ! The worst parts were the farm premises where I had to disinfect my shoes - foot and mouth was rife at that time if you remember - very sad.
giraffe
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That's a big form. What will happen if people miss out some of the questions? Will they get a visit?
I didn't know new passport photos had to be without specs, etc. I shan't bother to renew my passport then.
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Just had a look on the Directgov website (direct.gov.uk) and found the following:
The photographs you supply with your [passport] application must:
# be taken with your eyes open and clearly visible (no sunglasses or tinted glasses and no hair across your eyes)
# be free from reflection or glare on your glasses, and the frames must not cover your eyes - the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) recommends that, if possible, you remove your glasses
# be professionally printed (photographs printed at home are not acceptable)
# show your full head, without any head covering, unless you wear one for religious beliefs or medical reasons
# be taken with nothing covering your face - you should make sure nothing covers the outline of your eyes, nose or mouth
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You don't have to pay to change an old driving licence to a photo one. Just get a form from the post office, get a passport type photo, someone has to sign the form to say they have known you for some time and send it off.
One of my sons old driving licence was so awful that it was illegible and, in any case, he'd changed addresses about 10 times (he flits from flats to flats) since it was first issued. We thought in those circumstances we would have to pay, so sent, not only an adoption certificate, but also proof of current address and a £20 cheque. He received his new driving licence and the cheque was returned.
I know when my OH and I moved, we "innocently" sent off our driving licences for change of address and got a form back telling us to get photos. We duly did that and just sent the whole lot back and got our new licences.
Just try it.
Lizzie
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Talking about passport photos, they also have to have a white background. My husband has white hair ::) You can imagine what his passport photo looks like.
Got our census form today, I've not looked at it yet.
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So passport photos should be "# be professionally printed (photographs printed at home are not acceptable)
"
I could produce a much better quality photo taken at home than one taken in a photo booth, which, I assume is where most people would have a photo taken - so do the passport service actually prefer a slightly dodgy booth produced one to a good image?
Carole
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I was looking forward to writing in ' where born'....but you just tick a box to say english/welsh/ etc etc ::) .....a real nightmare for anyone doing their family history in 100yrs time !!
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I was looking forward to writing in ' where born'....but you just tick a box to say english/welsh/ etc etc ::) .....a real nightmare for anyone doing their family history in 100yrs time !!
No one will need to do their family history in 100 years time,all babies will be born with a microchip like dogs have,with all their medical,genealogy etc details embedded in it ;D ;D ;D
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Knowing what a palaver I'm having just to try to find all my elderly maternal grandmother's siblings in the birth indexes (her maiden name was Thomas, her mother's maiden name was Jones and her parents didn't marry until 1912) - heaven help anyone researching her sister's descendants (she married a Williams, and one of her daughters married an Owen)!
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What will happen if people miss out some of the questions? Will they get a visit?
Someone who is currently working for the current Census may be able to answer that. In 2001 as Collectors we only had to visit if people had not returned their form for some reason, and offer help if they requested it. If they refused to complete the form they would have been visited by someone 'higher up'.
giraffe
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That's a big form. What will happen if people miss out some of the questions? Will they get a visit?
If you fill in your form online, you should be fine. I think the software will make sure you answer all the relevant questions (unless, of course, you accidentally forget to enter all the details of a family member, including their name).
If you return your questionnaire by post, they eventually make their way back to the enumerators who have to check them. If you post back your form and miss out a question, a census enumerator (it will be me if you live in a certain district in NE Scotland) will come knocking at your door to politely ask you to fill in the missing information.
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So passport photos should be "# be professionally printed (photographs printed at home are not acceptable)
"
I could produce a much better quality photo taken at home than one taken in a photo booth, which, I assume is where most people would have a photo taken - so do the passport service actually prefer a slightly dodgy booth produced one to a good image?
Carole
Carole, the photo has to be very high resolution, to capture patterns in the iris of the eye. At major airports you now have to put your face into a gadget which scans your eye patterns and looks for a match. They say they won't accept home-printed pictures, because many submitted would not be high enough resolution for the job. Also, as a security feature, all laser printers carry a code embedded into the pixels which can identify the printer serial number, should the printer be used for counterfeiting, and this security feature would also mess up the iris recognition, if a laser printer was used to print the picture.
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So a photo from a photo booth would be of higher quality? I find that hard to believe ???
All this this is all hypothetical as far as I'm concerned as I don't think I'll ever want a new passport unless they invent time travel, in which case I'll be first in the queue and they can microchip me/DNA test me/do whatever they want!
Carole
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Well, I said that home-produced photos could be of lower quality, and I suppose the authorities don't want to waste time sending photos back that are not up to scratch. As for microchipping...... well the new passports are chipped - it's rumoured that the data on your passport can be read from 50 feet away, with the right equipment :)
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It still won't help me get me back to 1780! ;D
Carole
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It still won't help me get me back to 1780! ;D
Carole
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
giraffe
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Well the moment of truth has arrived as our postie has handed me our census form just 2 minutes ago.
Carole
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We cannot finally complete it until Sunday 27th of march can we?
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What about students? May they be counted twice, if they are listed at home and at their university town?
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We cannot finally complete it until Sunday 27th of march can we?
No,incase your spouse walks out before then,great aunt Fanny turns up wanting a bed for the night,or your teenage daughter stays over at a pals overnight.
;D ;D ;D
Carol
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I dont think that this census will be a true picture, as I know at least 2 people who have received their census form and completed it on line already. What's to say that some of them wont be else where on the 27th and get included on another census form? Is anyone going to cross check all the forms?
Jan
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I have got two forms. Each one has got a different Internet access code.
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I have got two forms. Each one has got a different Internet access code.
You should only get one census pack. It is possible that:
1: Your current householed held two seperate dwellings in 2001.
2: Your house has accidentally been listed in two districts.
I would phone the helpline if I were you (unless you can think of a reason why two forms may have been delivered).
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I have got two forms. Each one has got a different Internet access code.
You should only get one census pack. It is possible that:
1: Your current householed held two seperate dwellings in 2001.
2: Your house has accidentally been listed in two districts.
I would phone the helpline if I were you (unless you can think of a reason why two forms may have been delivered).
I live in Wales. One form is in english and the other is in Welsh language and is Form H2W
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I have got two forms. Each one has got a different Internet access code.
You should only get one census pack. It is possible that:
1: Your current householed held two seperate dwellings in 2001.
2: Your house has accidentally been listed in two districts.
I would phone the helpline if I were you (unless you can think of a reason why two forms may have been delivered).
I live in Wales. One form is in english and the other is in Welsh language and is Form H2W
Oh right I see. I'm afraid I don't have an answer for that.
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I have got the option to use either one or the other, my preferred language, and just ignore the other form.
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Yes, that is correct procedure as per the collector training I have received... I can only assume the creators of the forms felt that Welsh nationalists would object to having to have English on 'their' form.
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Yes, that is correct procedure as per the collector training I have received... I can only assume the creators of the forms felt that Welsh nationalists would object to having to have English on 'their' form.
They should have put Welsh on the laminated language cards... :P
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Yes, that is correct procedure as per the collector training I have received... I can only assume the creators of the forms felt that Welsh nationalists would object to having to have English on 'their' form.
You misunderstand the "Welsh" question. History plays a part in the use of the Welsh language.
For many people in Wales Welsh is their first language.
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Yes, that is correct procedure as per the collector training I have received... I can only assume the creators of the forms felt that Welsh nationalists would object to having to have English on 'their' form.
You misunderstand the "Welsh" question. History plays a part in the use of the Welsh language.
For many people in Wales Welsh is their first language.
............. and it was the original language of Britain.
:)
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Yes, that is correct procedure as per the collector training I have received... I can only assume the creators of the forms felt that Welsh nationalists would object to having to have English on 'their' form.
You misunderstand the "Welsh" question. History plays a part in the use of the Welsh language.
For many people in Wales Welsh is their first language.
I'm not disputing that... I was raised in Wales and have lived here for most of my life - my point was that I would have thought it was cheaper for the ONS to produce one form with both Welsh and English on it.
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Yes, that is correct procedure as per the collector training I have received... I can only assume the creators of the forms felt that Welsh nationalists would object to having to have English on 'their' form.
You misunderstand the "Welsh" question. History plays a part in the use of the Welsh language.
For many people in Wales Welsh is their first language.
The form is 32 pages long.
I'm not disputing that... I was raised in Wales and have lived here for most of my life - my point was that I would have thought it was cheaper for the ONS to produce one form with both Welsh and English on it.
OOps The form is 32 pages long.
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Regarding this form.
George Orwell was a few years out 1981 make that 2011.
Welcome to Con,Dems Big Society.
How many rain forest's were cut down for the paper for this?
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Just received ours through today and am already having naughty thoughts about wether to make it as difficult for any future family historians looking for me and mine as my ancestors did for me OR doing the decent thing and filling it in to the best of my knowledge. ;D
Re passports
[ should be professionally printed (photographs printed at home are not acceptable]
I recently renewed our passports- my photo was taken in a photo booth but my husband, horrified by the price charged, asked me to find a 'home' one--this i did but it was a fraction smaller than officially required. I found a website that could alter the photo to the size required and both were accepted .
Out of interest--i did the postoffice 'check and send' service and when the chap behind the counter checked through mine he kept looking at me and then at the old passport photo and the new photo with a rather enquiring look [Apparently the photos are both meant to be recognizable as the same person ]and i had to explain that "Yes they are both of me but now i have acquired a lot of extra wrinkles in the last 10years!!! : :'( poli
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How many rain forest's were cut down for the paper for this?
That was partly the point I was attempting to make above - surely it would have been more ecologically viable to print a set of questionnaires with both Welsh and English (or Scots Gaelic and English, or Irish Gaelic and English) than to do separate ones.
Of course there is always the option to fill out the form online and recycle the paper version... I just wish I had access to some of the info for which the census is asking me about my ancestors.
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It is possible in some households that the Husband may want to fill in the Welsh version of the form, and the wife may want to complete the English form.
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No problem, get one of them to fill in the Household questionnaire and the other an Individual one.
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Regarding this form.
George Orwell was a few years out 1981 make that 2011.
Welcome to Con,Dems Big Society.
How many rain forest's were cut down for the paper for this?
There's always one isn't there ::)
The 2011 census was fully planned under the last Government, including the questions to be asked and the length of the questionnaire.
There was talk of abandoning the census post the election last year but too much planning had been done and too much money spent or contracted that they decided it was better to carry on with it
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As I mentioned earlier in this thread...
[...]it was mentioned that one of the London boroughs had a very low return rate for the 2001 census, and it is now considered one of the most underprivileged and under-funded areas in the country.
Coincidence ???
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That's a big form. What will happen if people miss out some of the questions? Will they get a visit?
If you fill in your form online, you should be fine. I think the software will make sure you answer all the relevant questions (unless, of course, you accidentally forget to enter all the details of a family member, including their name).
If you return your questionnaire by post, they eventually make their way back to the enumerators who have to check them. If you post back your form and miss out a question, a census enumerator (it will be me if you live in a certain district in NE Scotland) will come knocking at your door to politely ask you to fill in the missing information.
I checked this with my boss today ...and he said that the forms get scanned in, and if any boxes have been missed it gets highlighted and they get sent to a special central "checking missing questions" person, who has to go through and decide what to do with it. If they think those questions need answering they contact the householder - but it won't be the local enumerator who does it. Of course, that could be wrong.... it's taking a while to get to grips with all the ins and outs of the process ::) ::)
Milly ;D
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I used to spend a lot of time in Europe, and can't ever remember filling in a census form. I definitely didn't do the last two anyway, so I must have been out of the UK.
So is this a first, having to fill in the form if you weren't at home on census day?
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Will some students be counted twice? Once at their home address and again in the university town.
If they are crashed out at a party, may they be counted a third time as a visitor.
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Sloe Gin - I think you are getting a little confused - census forms are delivered to households, not indviduals, and it is the duty a responsible adult living at that address to fill in the forms. As far as I'm aware, it is not the responsibility of the owner of the property, unless they are living there on the census date. If there is no-one living in the property on census night, then no forms have to be filled.
ScouseBoy - I'm sure that some people will be counted twice. This happened on a regular basis on previous censuses, and I doubt whether this one will be any different.
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Sloe Gin - I think you are getting a little confused - census forms are delivered to households, not indviduals, and it is the duty a responsible adult living at that address to fill in the forms. As far as I'm aware, it is not the responsibility of the owner of the property, unless they are living there on the census date.
No, I understand all that. Perhaps I should have said
"Is this a first, having to supply your details if you weren't at home on census day?"
If there is no-one living in the property on census night, then no forms have to be filled.
That's not how I read it. It asks who normally lives in the property, and asks for the details of any such people even if they are away from the address.
Put it this way, if we all clear off to Dublin for a long weekend, and leave the house empty, will we still have to fill in the form and give our details? I think we do.
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Yes - you fill in the form as soon as you get back to say that is where you NORMALLY live. Fill the form in completely for all normal residents of the household.
You will also have been included as a visitor at the place where you were staying.
I don't remember this being done in the last census so I think it may be the first time we are counted twice. It is an improvement (family history-wise) as future generations won't be left wondering where Dad was on census night ;D
One odd thing is the case of boarding school children who, if they are at school, fill the form in themselves as part of a communal establishment even though really their normal address is at home with their parents.
Milly
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So really this census wont be a snap shot of where everyone was on the night of the 27th March, but will record where you were when you decide to complete it, which could be 3 weeks before census night. I can still see some people being recorded two or three times at different places - great fun for genealogists in a hundred years time. ;D ;D
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Yes - you fill in the form as soon as you get back to say that is where you NORMALLY live. Fill the form in completely for all normal residents of the household.
That's what I thought.
You will also have been included as a visitor at the place where you were staying.
Not if it's outside the UK, which is why I used Dublin as my example.
I don't remember this being done in the last census so I think it may be the first time we are counted twice.
No, neither do I. I don't think I've been counted at all for a while, as I was not in the country on the nights of the previous censuses - so this change means I would be recorded regardless of that fact.
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Yes - sorry - meant to say only if you are somewhere in UK.
Milly ;D
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I don't remember this being done in the last census so I think it may be the first time we are counted twice. It is an improvement (family history-wise) as future generations won't be left wondering where Dad was on census night ;D
You can see the 2001 form at http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/censusform.asp
See page 2.
Stan
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Ah, not a first then - thanks, Stan.
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there do seem to be little things that will make family search in the furture more difficult. the place of birth being the obvious one. my sister and my mother were both born in germany as we are a military family. it doesnt give you any place to say british subject. so those researching my sis will assume she is german maybe? that is until they find her birth certificate which is a british one, but still could prove a bit more tricky for future generations.
that said i think in the future family researh will be easier. our details and data iss everywhere nowadays. even just getting a catalogue you have to fill in an endless form.
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So really this census wont be a snap shot of where everyone was on the night of the 27th March, but will record where you were when you decide to complete it, which could be 3 weeks before census night. I can still see some people being recorded two or three times at different places - great fun for genealogists in a hundred years time. ;D ;D
Yes. Students could be counted twice. Once at home by their parents, and again by the University hall or their student shared house.
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You have to give your date of birth on this census which can be a substitute for our descendants for not being asked place of birth if a common name. May help a bit in finding the right birth cert.
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Well, I had a good read through and I don't think there's anything any more intrusive than on some of the other forms I've had to fill in insurance or mortgage! I am surprised at some of the questions, but I am more than happy to answer any of them as I'm sure if the government wanted to find out any of that stuff anyway, there are other ways and means. Don't forget to keep a copy of your form in your family history file!
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In respect to online form filling, i wonder whether there will be a website crash!!
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Wouldn't it be a lark if everyone went and stayed in somebody else's house overnight, just to be contrary ...... (http://bestsmileys.com/evil/10.gif)
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or went on a house crawl...visiting lots of different houses all through the night :o :o
Milly ;D
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So really this census wont be a snap shot of where everyone was on the night of the 27th March, but will record where you were when you decide to complete it, which could be 3 weeks before census night. I can still see some people being recorded two or three times at different places - great fun for genealogists in a hundred years time. ;D ;D
Yes. Students could be counted twice. Once at home by their parents, and again by the University hall or their student shared house.
... so the government can keep a track on their TV licences ;)
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So really this census wont be a snap shot of where everyone was on the night of the 27th March, but will record where you were when you decide to complete it, which could be 3 weeks before census night. I can still see some people being recorded two or three times at different places - great fun for genealogists in a hundred years time. ;D ;D
I think the art of genealogy will be either dead, or only in the hands of experts in a hundred years time. Too many people not bothering to get married, or divorcing several times and having lots of children with different partners. Lots of children names after pop stars and football players. Too difficult for your average amateur genealogist ;)
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As said I might doss in an old war bunker to avoid the census. I will feel like my ancestor who seemed to dodge the 1881 census yet was in the village in 1871 and in 1885.
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How about spending census night in a traffic jam on the M25? ;D ;D ;D How should that be enumerated? ::) ???
Nigel
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we won't be home but away in Wotton-Under-Edge- so will be a visitor ;) that will confuse both them + us ;D
Jane
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How about spending census night in a traffic jam on the M25? ;D ;D ;D How should that be enumerated? ::) ???
Nigel
Well lets hope it doesn't snow on 27th March like it did just before Xmas.
There may be people all over the floor at Heathrow airport and in traffic jams all round the country...........now wouldn't that be fun?
:o
Carol
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Having let OH fill in (in pencil) his bit (and then corrected his errors!!) , I was able to really look at the requirements.
.After entering that I had been educated, obtaining School Cert.(Don't ask!!) Then I almost had no life!!after that(Just a bit about my job)
Whist it is obviously geared to the Governments future planning ( I've filled in three NZ Census which were on the same lines)
It is disappointing for genealogists with regards to any answers which we would like to leave our descendants.Certainly some of the earlier census have been more informative than this will be.
Spring
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How about spending census night in a traffic jam on the M25? ;D ;D ;D How should that be enumerated? ::) ???
Nigel
Anyone temporarily away from home on census night would fill in the form giving their usual address.
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Has anyone tried phoning the Help Line yet?
I think they will be overwhelmed by the questions.
I predict chaos and confusion.
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ok no im confused again, i posted on this thread a few days ago as i am away on census night and the reply was you are a vistor on the census of the place you are staying and you fill out your own when you get home?!!
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How many non-domestic premises have received Household Forms?
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ok no im confused again, i posted on this thread a few days ago as i am away on census night and the reply was you are a vistor on the census of the place you are staying and you fill out your own when you get home?!!
Visitors are not entered in detail. Question H5 asks how many visitors were staying over night on 27th March, then on page 23 are Visitor Questions, where only their name and address, together with date of birth and sex are entered. Any visitor then has to fill in the complete form at their usual address, when they get home.
Stan
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Yes - all visitors (UK and international) are included with minimal details about them and details of their usual address. This helps where there are areas with lots of visitors (like holiday towns) to plan services for them.
If someone who is staying overnight has NO usual address - they are included as a member of your household and have to complete the full details as a member of the household. This is to make sure no one is missed out.
I think..
Milly ;D
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Have all mobile homes been sent a Form?
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Sorry, I gave some duff information out earlier, which I've now deleted. That'll teach me not to post until my eyes have woken up ! ::)
Anyway, there's lots of online help for the 2011 census at http://help.census.gov.uk/england/help/help-and-information/index.html
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Mobile homes will either get a normal household form (if they are the kind where people live all the time instead of a house)..or the manager of the park will get a communal form and lots of individual forms addressed to all the mobile homes which they are supposed to distrubute and collect to give the the Special Eumerator.
Milly
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Hi Jean
I have been researching Vayro and Varo for 28 years, only recently joined Rootschat.
I wondered where your Varo link came from
Rennison
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Hi Jean
I have been researching Vayro and Varo for 28 years, only recently joined Rootschat.
I wondered where your Varo link came from
Rennison
Have you posted this on the right thread? Do you mean the surname Vayro or Varo? After you have made two more posts you are able to send a private message to Jean.
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ScouseBoy,
Rennison has posted on the right thread. He is referring to reply #24 on this thread where bhaven has listed Varo as one of her name interests. Varo and Vayro are linked surnames.
As you say it would be best if Rennison made three posts on boards other than the common room boards and then he would be able to PM bhaven who may noy otherwise see his post
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ScouseBoy,
Rennison has posted on the right thread. He is referring to reply #24 on this thread where bhaven has listed Varo as one of her name interests. Varo and Vayro are linked surnames.
As you say it would be best if Rennison made three posts on boards other than the common room boards and then he would be able to PM bhaven who may noy otherwise see his post
Hi David and Scouse Boy
Yes indeed it was aimed at Jean #24 who has Varo as an interest
If I could get used to the system of replying to postings I may have more success. See my full posting on the beginners board
Rennison
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hi Rennison, welcome to rootschat ;D
You need three posts to be able to use the PM (Private Message) system...but posts in here don't count. So if you reply to a couple more on the thread you have going on the beginner's board you will soon have three and can then send Jean a PM.
Milly ;D
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Hi Milly
Thanks for your advice, as I said to Gilly I will eventually pick it all up
Rennison
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"First Name" - that's annoying for me, as I have two forenames and am always called by my second one. The first one is a closely guarded secret, except for official documents.
"What is your job?" - Well, I am retired now, but have had several very different jobs in the last 20 years with different employers. Where do I begin? Or do I simply put "retired"?
I clicked on a FAQ on the census helpline which didn't give me any enlightenment, though it did ask me if their reply had been of any help. I said no, so am waiting to see if anyone gets back to me to find out what the problem is.
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Gillg - your post immediately reminded me of my dad, who hated his first name, and never used it. And it seems that his parents didn't either, because they dropped it from the census too ! :)
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Ooh, Nick, do you think that I could do that too! It would certainly confuse any computer trying to match me up with other records, as I haven't been able to avoid the first name coming up in anything official. Actually my grandfather, full name Alfred, entered himself on the 1911 census as Fred. With much imagination he also called his son Fred, not Alfred, so there were two Freds in that family in 1911.
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And what about those names which can be given to both boys and girls, such as Hilary, Beverly, Ceri and several more. You could have a family all with the same first and second name.
And what about people with names such as Albert Hall, or Penny Lane.
Can you think of any more funny examples?
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And what about those names which can be given to both boys and girls, such as Hilary, Beverly, Ceri and several more. You could have a family all with the same first and second name.
And what about people with names such as Albert Hall, or Penny Lane.
Can you think of any more funny examples?
Christmas Day
Easter Day
Jack Frost
Harry A Long ;D
All real people found in the BMD indexes
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"First Name" - that's annoying for me, as I have two forenames and am always called by my second one. The first one is a closely guarded secret, except for official documents.
As it's supposed to be confidential, and only used for gathering statistics, is there any need for them to ask for names at all ::)
In your place, Gillg, I would just put the name I am known by.
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"First Name" - that's annoying for me, as I have two forenames and am always called by my second one. The first one is a closely guarded secret, except for official documents.
As it's supposed to be confidential, and only used for gathering statistics, is there any need for them to ask for names at all ::)
In your place, Gillg, I would just put the name I am known by.
Gillg - isn't the census an official document then? I am known as Katie but it says Kathryn on my birth certificate - so Kathryn is what goes down on the census. I know how hard it was trying to find my OH's grandmother's birth registrations as they were all known by their middle names on the census.
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It's a tradition in my family going back generations to give the child two names and then call him/her by the second one, so as you say finding relatives has been quite difficult. In my case I find my first name so awful that it has blighted my life. I was named after a rich childless aunt, probably in the hope that she would leave me some money ::). In the end she went a bit bonkers and crossed my brother out of her will and was on the point of crossing me out when she died. We shared what she left between us, something we had agreed between ourselves beforehand when we realised the way things were going!
My second forename has a shortened version which is used by all the family, but I wouldn't use that on a form, just the full second forename.
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As far as I'm aware, the name collecting is to make sure that they're able to sort out queries, in the case of non-filling of forms, or mistakes on forms. In any case, under English law, you can call yourself what you like, as long as you don't do it for the purposes of deception.
And..... the fact that something is confidential doesn't stop it being used internally by the government :)
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As far as I'm aware, the name collecting is to make sure that they're able to sort out queries, in the case of non-filling of forms, or mistakes on forms. In any case, under English law, you can call yourself what you like, as long as you don't do it for the purposes of deception.
And..... the fact that something is confidential doesn't stop it being used internally by the government :)
I believe that the ONS have given an assurance that any data collected will only be used for statistical purposes. In my opinion that equates to an assurance that individual names will not be disclosed to other government departments.
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As far as I'm aware, the name collecting is to make sure that they're able to sort out queries, in the case of non-filling of forms, or mistakes on forms.
maybe ..... but it's Not Really Necessary, is it?
especially if it's true that "any data collected will only be used for statistical purposes (and) individual names will not be disclosed to other government departments."
(http://bestsmileys.com/i_thought/23.gif)
Yeah, right.
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Incidentally, are we all filling in the form online but also filling in and keeping the paper form for future generations who might be interested in the family's history? Rumour has it that this could be the last census to be taken because so much information is held about us anyway.
Gillg
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In any case, under English law, you can call yourself what you like, as long as you don't do it for the purposes of deception.
???
Explain to me what exactly is English law[/u][? Under English law?
for goodness sake ! ::) This is a too common occurrence here .
Kind regards
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It should be Under English common law, a person may take a new surname, perfectly legally, without drawing up any formal record, provided that such action is not undertaken for the purpose of fraud of avoidance of obligation, etc. ;D
Stan
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It should be Under English common law, a person may take a new surname, perfectly legally, without drawing up any formal record, provided that such action is not undertaken for the purpose of fraud of avoidance of obligation, etc. ;D
Stan
Since the act of 1967, It is referred to the Laws of England and Wales (nice copy and paste by the way I always put a link under anything I have copied word to word to direct the reader to that piece, so not for them to think it is my own work/writings and they can investigate further)
Kind regards :)
;D
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Thanks for your comment. Sorry to have done that ;D I did not copy the whole of my original post which is
Under English common law, a person may take a new surname, perfectly legally, without drawing up any formal record, provided that such action is not undertaken for the purpose of fraud of avoidance of obligation, etc. So for people over over 16 years of age in England there is only one way to legally change your name and that is by using a new name. Deed Poll has never been required It always was, and still is, perfectly legal just to change one's name and notify all interested parties, provided there is no intent to defraud or other criminal intent . Deed Poll was usually used by those who considered possible inheritance difficulties in the future, so was more often used by the wealthier members of society. A notification in the local paper was sometimes used, and for every person who went to the trouble and expense of deed poll, there were numerous others who simply adopted a new name without formality. From 1914, all deeds poll enrolled in the Supreme Court had first to be advertised in the London Gazette
See http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/RdLeaflet.asp?sLeafletID=176
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,509013.msg3654568.html#msg3654568
Stan
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Since the act of 1967, It is referred to the Laws of England and Wales (nice copy and paste by the way I always put a link under anything I have copied word to word to direct the reader to that piece, so not for them to think it is my own work/writings and they can investigate further)
Kind regards :)
;D
Which 1967 Act? Can you give a Link just to have a look at.
Stan
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From "The Oxford Dictionary of Law" Oxford University Press, ISBN 0198607563
" A natural person (i.e. a human being) may change his or her surname simply by using a different name with sufficient consistency to become generally known by that name."
Stan
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I said "English Law" because I wasn't sure what the situation was in Scotland & Wales :)
Someone is getting a little picky here, aren't they ? ::)
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I said "English Law" because I wasn't sure what the situation was in Scotland & Wales :)
Someone is getting a little picky here, aren't they ? ::)
Mostly England and Wales have one legal system applicable to both countries.
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I said "English Law" because I wasn't sure what the situation was in Scotland & Wales :)
Someone is getting a little picky here, aren't they ? ::)
England and Wales have one legal system, and Scotland and Northern Ireland their own. The 1836 registration act is titled "An Act for Registering Births, Deaths, and Marriages in England" not "England and Wales" although it applies to Wales. Scotland did not have a Registration Act until 1854.
Stan
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All current certificates in Wales are bilingual.
The registrar in Wales will give informants a choice of which language they prefer to use.