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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: topazmay on Wednesday 19 January 11 22:09 GMT (UK)

Title: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: topazmay on Wednesday 19 January 11 22:09 GMT (UK)
hi  i have just joined, as i have recentley got some info on my family. My grandad was freddy penfold born in gurlings yeard battersea. born 6 july 1921. his dad frederick a flower seller  and marride mary ann  they had 6 children.
I have been told that boney born in 1869 in hounslow was a licencesed hawker. he was a fine wagon builder and built serveral Vardos (wagon) there is a story that after months of building the wagons were pulled out only for them to find they were to tall to fit under the arches  and had to take the wheels off!!
other family members are  Billy Bowls(william penfold) queen elizabeth better known as queenie charity  better known as bluey i wish i had known them they sound such great characters

Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: suzard on Wednesday 19 January 11 22:41 GMT (UK)
Hello and welcome to RootsChat

It's great when you hear stories about ancestors -through family history you do "get to know" them

Do you have information on your family or is there anything you would like looking up??

I had a little search -and is this your family?

Birth reg
Frederick H Penfold
mother's maiden name Anderson
Sept qtr 1921
Wandsworth reg dist
1d 892

Death reg
Frederick Henry Penfold
born 6 July 1921
death reg Nov 1984
age 63
Wandsworth reg dist
15 938

if this is your Frederick's birth and  death reg

then this could be his parents marriage

Parish Church of St Saviours Battersea Park London
marriage after Banns
16 Aug 1915
Frederick Penfold age 18 bachelor of Mills Yard Sheepcote lane occupation Flower seller father Frederick Penfold Occupation Flower Seller
married
Mary Ann Anderson age 21 of Mills Yard Sheepcote lane father Thomas Anderson occupation Flower Seller
Frederick and Mary Ann signes

witesses Robert penfold and Ida Penfold -both made their mark

Suz
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: topazmay on Thursday 20 January 11 10:30 GMT (UK)
thanks for that yes thats my family my grandad and my great grandad. I have some ghreat phots of the horse cart and flowers will add them on soon. How exciting!!!!!
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: t mo on Thursday 20 January 11 12:46 GMT (UK)
hello topazmay
and welcome to rootschat from me also .

will look forward to seeing your photos they sound like a rare bunch of characters i wonder how many blokes have built something and then found for one reason or another it,s too big to get out of some where  it,s a man thing you know !!!
trevor
ps no i haven,t done it YET  ;D but haven,t lost the chance !
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: micha54178 on Wednesday 23 February 11 22:29 GMT (UK)
This may be a long shot, but most the my tracing seems to be so far...
I have a Fredrick Penfold, marrying Priscilla Thompson - mainly in the Hampshire area,
Their son Henry was born 21st Aug 1911 in Hampshire, who the married Rhoda Hearn. I'm hoping that some of these names might connect with something?

Thanks
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Joanne19721972 on Sunday 02 February 20 22:10 GMT (UK)
Hi ya I just came across this post an I think maryann anderson was my grandad sister I know my grandad parents were joe anderson an rebecca botton would love to know more about them hope to hear bk from u x
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Sunday 02 February 20 23:02 GMT (UK)
Hi ya I just came across this post

I think maryann anderson was my grandad sister

I know my grandad parents were joe anderson an rebecca botton

would love to know more about them hope to hear bk from u x

Hello and welcome to Rootschat this thread was started in 2011 by topazmay who has not been active since then.

The Mary ann Anderson that married Frederick Penfold her father is named Thomas and she was born 1893

This is Mary with her parents on 1901 census

Piece:   441 Folio:   174 Page Number:   53
Thomas Anderson   32
Rebecca Anderson   29
Thomas Anderson   10
Mary A Anderson   8 Battersea, London


Parish Church of St Saviours Battersea Park London
marriage after Banns
16 Aug 1915
Frederick Penfold age 18 bachelor of Mills Yard Sheepcote lane occupation Flower seller father Frederick Penfold Occupation Flower Seller

married

Mary Ann Anderson age 21 of Mills Yard Sheepcote lane
father Thomas Anderson occupation Flower Seller
Frederick and Mary Ann signes

witesses Robert penfold and Ida Penfold -both made their mark


Do you have your Grandfather on any census with his parents and sister?

What is his name and when was he born?

Rootschat policy ask not post names of known living persons.

There’s this marriage

Thomas ANDERSON Age: 20 Hawker Mills Yard Sheepcote Lane
father Joseph Anderson occ hawker
Marriage 17 Mar 1890 St Saviour, Battersea, Wandsworth, England
Spouse:   Rebecca BOTTON 19 Wheelers Yard Sheepcote Lane
father Henry Botton occ hawker
Witnesses to marriage James BOTTON & Patience Wheeler

Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 03 February 20 13:39 GMT (UK)
Joanne19721972 - when you next visit Rootschat  please let us know if any of the details posted relate to your Anderson / Botton family and if you require any further help  :)

Free 1911 census available via familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5H-T97 show Thomas & Rebecca with 6 children

Thomas Anderson   Head 42   Wandsworth, London
Rebecca Anderson   Wife   40   Penge, Surrey
Thomas Anderson   Son   20   Battersea London, London
Mary Ann Anderson dau   18   Battersea London
Rebecca Anderson   Dau   11   Battersea London
Patience Anderson   Dau    8   Foots Cray, Kent
Joseph Anderson   Son    4   Battersea London, London
Caroline Anderson   Dau    2

GRO indexes give mother's maiden name - this is Mary's birth entry

Mary Ann ANDERSON mmn BOTTON
1893  M Quarter in WANDSWORTH  Volume 01D  Page 619

Mary Ann Anderson
Baptism 5 Feb 1893 Baptism Battersea St Saviour, Wandsworth
Father: Thomas Anderson, occ Hawker  Mother:   Rebecca abode Wheeler's Yard Sheepcote Lane

Here's the baptism of Thomas & Joseph

Thomas Anderson
Baptism 19 Apr 1891 Battersea St Saviour, Wandsworth
Father:   Thomas Anderson occ hawker Mother: Rebecca abode Mills Yard Sheepcote Lane

Joseph Anderson Born 8 Feb 1907
Baptism    24 Feb 1907 St Saviour, Battersea, Wandsworth
Father:   Thomas Anderson occ hawker  Mother: Rebecca, abode 80 Sheepcote Lane


Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Joanne19721972 on Monday 03 February 20 15:42 GMT (UK)
Hi yes I have censors with my grandad Joseph anderson an his sister maryann anderson an the others on it his father was thomas anderson an mother rebecca botton have u any more info on there children an the other brothers an sisters
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Joanne19721972 on Monday 03 February 20 15:51 GMT (UK)
And are there any pics of any of them
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 03 February 20 16:15 GMT (UK)
I think this is the birth entry of Rebecca BOTTON

Rebecca BOTTON mmn GUESS
Registration Quarter:   Sep 1871 London Volume:   1d Page:   588

Her mother’s bpt.

Frances GUESS
Baptism 19 Jun 1831 Tenterden, Kent
Father:   John Guess Mother:   Elizabeth

I think below is Rebecca Botton’s family born 1871, she would not appear on this census as it was taken before her birth , her brother James was a witness to her marriage to Thomas Anderson.

James BOTTON married in 1880 age 18 father Henry Botton both Licensed Hawkers one of the witnesses is Robert PENFOLD , the other is his married sister Priscilla GARLICK, she married in 1874.
These marriage details can be viewed on Anc*y  Do you have a subscription?
If not, I can give type up all the details from the marriages available on line just let me know

1871 census Piece:   732 Folio:   56 Page Number:   61
Old James St.,   Caravans
Henry BOTTON   42 Eltham Kent Licensed Hawker
Frances    40 Tenterden Kent
Priscilla    17 Ashbourne Derby
James    8 Holloway Middlesex
John    6 Lewisham
Caroline   4 Peckham
Edward    1 Forest Hill Surrey

Priscilla Botton
Baptism 27 Nov 1853 Holloway, Islington
Father:   Henry Botton, occ licensed hawker Mother: Francis, abode Lodging at the Crown

Edward Botton
Baptism    13 Jun 1869 East Dulwich St John the Evangelist, Southwark,
Father:   Henry Botton, occ hawker Mother:   Frances

Botton surname has been transcribed as Bottom/Bolton/Barton

This looks to be the marriage of Henry & Frances but his surname is BARTON, hers GASS
pretty certain these are the same persons as Henry BOTTON & Frances GUESS

Henry BARTON, Minor, occ Hawker father James, hawker
Marriage 24 Dec 1850 St Mary, Putney, Wandsworth
Spouse:   Frances GASS full age, father John, Hawker
Witnesses James & Mary Barton , all made their mark (x)

I haven't been able to locate Henry & Frances BOTTON with their children on 1851, 1861 or 1881 census but will keep looking possibly their surname may be incorrectly transcribed....

Will see what I can find on the Anderson children and get back to you
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 03 February 20 16:16 GMT (UK)
And are there any pics of any of them

Not that I've seen
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Joanne19721972 on Monday 03 February 20 16:33 GMT (UK)
Thank u it a lot to take in lol an to understand I have nothing of my great gran rebecca botton only what I have seen on here an yes would b grateful of any other info thanks
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 03 February 20 16:53 GMT (UK)
Thank u it a lot to take in lol an to understand I have nothing of my great gran rebecca botton only what I have seen on here an yes would b grateful of any other info thanks

Is this the death Thomas & Rebecca's son Joseph ?

Joseph Anderson age 57
Registration Quarter:   Jun 1964 Bromley Kent Volume:   5b Page:   181

Not online to view but it looks as if Thomas & Rebecca's dau Caroline
married in 1932 a J M CONNAL
(have not included his full name as I have not seen a death entry for him)

You can search here https://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl for the marriage entry and
also any births (CONNAL /ANDERSON)  female born in 1937

I'm going off line shortly but will take a look later and post any information I find

Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Joanne19721972 on Monday 03 February 20 16:57 GMT (UK)
Yes that my grandad Joseph an ok thank u
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Monday 03 February 20 23:20 GMT (UK)
Burial of Thomas & Rebecca Anderson’s married dau  Mary Ann

Mary Ann Penfold
Death 21 Feb 1950
Cemetery:   Wandsworth Cemetery
also her husband Frederick & dau Caroline - click link below
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/139546172




Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Tuesday 04 February 20 13:16 GMT (UK)
1911c brought forward from reply 7 (see reply 6 for details of 1901 census and marriage of Thomas & Rebecca)
Free 1911 census available via familysearch
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5H-T97
8 children 2 died by 1911
Thomas Anderson   Head 42   Wandsworth, London
Rebecca Anderson   Wife   40   Penge, Surrey
Thomas Anderson   Son   20   Battersea London, London
Mary Ann Anderson dau   18   Battersea London
Rebecca Anderson   Dau   11   Battersea London
Patience Anderson   Dau    8   Foots Cray, Kent
Joseph Anderson   Son    4   Battersea London, London
Caroline Anderson   Dau    2

Thomas ANDERSON
I don’t know if this is the son of Thomas & Rebecca here's a possible marriage/death
TA marriage  Bromley Kent 1920 to D RODNEY (See FreeBMD)
TA death Bromley Kent 1960 age 70
Three Anderson/Rodney children born 1921, 1929, 1934 (See FreeBMD) all births registered Bromley Kent

Mary Ann Anderson married Frederick PENFOLD - details of marriage confirm father’s name Thomas death (See reply 6)

Rebecca & Patience Anderson - no further details found on these daughters of Thomas & Rebecca

JOSEPH - you’ve confirmed he’s your grandfather and his death entry 1964 Bromley Kent - his baptism 24 Feb gives his dob 8 Feb 1907

Caroline Anderson possibly married in 1932 a J M Connal - you would need to confirm this is correct as no m/c available to view online, 1 child born 1937

From the marriage of Thomas Anderson to Rebecca Botton his father is named Joseph a hawker

Thomas Anderson can be found with his family on 1871 census in a Caravan in Croydon

Joseph ANDERSON 26 licenced Hawker Croydon Surrey
Mary A 28 Elton Kent, licensed hawker
James 3 Battersea (married age 20 on 8 August 1887, father Joseph)
THOMAS 1 Wandsworth (married Rebecca Botton)
Pariant 5 Croydon (her name is Patience married  age 18 on 19th Aug 1884 father Joseph Hawker)

This appears to be the marriage of Thomas’ parents Jospeh Anderson & Mary Ann

Joseph ANDERSON age 20 hawker, Wandsworth
father William Gess Anderson, hawker
Marriage    20 Feb 1865 St Mary, Battersea, Wandsworth
Spouse:   Mary Ann SMITH age 23 father Thomas, hawker

Reply 10 gives you details of Rebecca Botton (Thomas Anderson’s wife)

Hopefully all the information is of help with your family research - good luck  :)
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Joanne19721972 on Tuesday 04 February 20 15:11 GMT (UK)
Thank u so much to take in is there anything else on mary ann smith Joseph's wife she would be my g g gran x
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Ladyhawk on Wednesday 05 February 20 18:37 GMT (UK)
is there anything else on mary ann smith Joseph's wife she would be my g g gran

This is all I could find

When Mary Ann Smith age 23 married Joseph Anderson in 1865 address only given as Wandsworth

I can’t find Joseph & Mary Ann Anderson (nee Smith) & their family on 1881 census daughter Fanny Anderson was baptised 1880 in Wandsworth and their address Sheepcote Lane

They are on 1891 census address (Mills Yard) Caravan

Mary Ann Anderson wife   49 Wandsworth, Licenced Hawker
Joseph Head 46 Croydon occ dittoed            “
Charity dau 14 Battersea
Fanny dau 10 Hastings Sussex
Joseph son 5 Battersea

Fanny Anderson
Baptism 10 Nov 1880, born 18th Sept. Battersea St Paul, Wandsworth
Father:   Joseph Anderson, labourer.   Mother:   Mary Ann abode Sheepcote Lane Battersea

Joseph Anderson
Baptism    19 Dec 1886 Battersea St Saviour, Wandsworth
Father:   Joseph Anderson, occ hawker Mother:   Mary Ann abode Wheeler’s Yard
No father’s name on Patience baptism record

from 1871 census posted (see reply 16) this appears to be their daughter but Jospeh is not named on the baptism
record

Patience Anderson Birth 19 Nov 1865
Baptism 10 Dec 1865 Croydon, St John, Surrey
Mother:   Mary Ann Anderson

Here are Joseph & Mary Ann on 1911 census

Free to view 1911c  on family search
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XW5H-TS5
Mills Yard Sheepcote Lane Battersea
Joseph Anderson 77 Bromley Kent General Dealer (Hawker)
Mary Ann wife 67 Croydon
Francis Wheeler 11 grandchild

Mary Ann Smith’s was aged 23 when she married Joseph Anderson in 1865
so she would’ve been born c 1842, Mary Ann would be approx aged 9 when 1851 census was taken

There is this 1861 census entry BUT I  cannot confirm if these are your Mary Ann SMITH’s parents as the children are note named only ages given

Your Mary Ann had a father named Thomas whose occupation was a hawker so a possibility but nothing definite.........was hoping maybe to find a baptism to confirm but not found anything I'm afraid

Thomas Smith 42 occ Hawker married to Susan age 38, both born Westminster St John’s living at 31, St Anns Street, St John the Evangelist, Westminster, London

Thomas & Susan have three children
their ages given as
12 (born c 1849), (Might this be Mary Ann  ???)
5 (born c 1856) &
8 months (born c1860)

NO Christian names given, NO place of birth unknown, all the ages are written in the male column but it states sex unknown  :-\
1861 census Piece:   48 Folio:   153 Page Number:   10

There's this 1871 census (maybe same family as on 1861 census mentioned above)
New Peter Street, St John the Evangelist, St George Hanover Square, London & Middlesex
Thomas Smith 56 Westr Middlesex occ labourer
Susan 44 St Pancras Middlesex
George 14 (born c 1857) St Pancras Middlesex
Caroline 10 (born c 1860) Westr Middlesex
Ann 7 (born c1864) Westr Middlesex
Thomas 4 (born 1867) Battersea Surrey
RG10; Piece: 119; Folio: 75; Page: 37



Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Joanne19721972 on Wednesday 05 February 20 19:06 GMT (UK)
Thank u an I'm not sure either I will try to find out
Title: Re: penfolds gurlings yard
Post by: Laurab2020 on Friday 28 August 20 17:40 BST (UK)
Hi
I just came across this and finding it fascinating. 
I believe that Edward Botton, Rebecca's older brother, is my Great-Grandfather, and therefore Henry is my Great great grandfather. 
Desperate to find out more of this history and any pics would be amazing
Thank you for your knowledge!