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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: tmlees on Monday 17 January 11 21:00 GMT (UK)
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I need help. I have a Jane Lees born to Adam Lees in 1730 at Craigie (confirmed by SP). In 1749 she married a William Wilson (again according to SP). My problem is that according to Family Search and SP there was a Jane Lees marring a William Wilson in Tarbolton and a Jean Lees marrying a William Wilson in Ayr. According to SP the children born in Tarbolton only list their father, William Wilson, on the birth document and all the children born in Ayr list both Jean Lees and William Wilson as parents. Is there any way to verify which is mine?
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat :)
Both couples seem to have a son called Adam :-\
William's father was William (deceased)
If they used the traditional naming convention, then Adam should be the second son and William the first ~
Tarbolton
1750 William
1754 John
1755 Adam
..........
Ayr
1754 William
1756 John
1759 Adam
so...............................
The couple married in Ayr and at that time Adam Lees was deceased.
My vote would be for them to be the Ayr couple but you'd need to do further checks-
Other children of Adam who might be worth chasing for any hints ~
1732 John
1734 William
1736 Elisabeth
Also, have you checked the MIs for Craigie, Tarbolton and Ayr and looked at the marriage/banns for the Tarbolton couple*?
I only have the MIs for the Carrick area of Ayrshire
JL
* I don't see the marriage/Banns of the Tarbolton couple on SP - can you give more info on them, please?
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Thank you for your quick reply. It is greatly appreciated. Here is the marriage document I got from SP. It clearly shows Jane Lees and mentions her father Adam (dec) from coylzean (I think)
Some of the children born to the Tarbolton couple were born in Coylzean (only the father William is mentioned.
The children born to the Ayr couple lists both William and Jean
The problem is that on the birth doc of Lees it is Jane (not Jean) daughter of Adam.
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Sorry I forgot to attach the file. Here it is. Also I can not find a marriage document for Jane and William in Tarbolton
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Hi
I have already downloaded that one to check up on her father but I couldn't find the Tarbolton one - can you remember where you found it :-\
The birth has her father as John on the index but Adam in the record. It's very difficult as the names of the children of both couples are so similar.
Jean and Jane are used interchangeably. My Jean ancestors became Jane south of the border
JL
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Hi JL
I found the error in the SP Index and I notified the SP about the error a year or so ago and they agreed that it was an error and would correct it. I guess they are still correcting it.
I have NOT been able to find any record anywhere about a marriage between William Wilson and Jane (Jean) Lees taking place in Tarbolton - only Ayr.
I KNOW that most of my direct ancestors came from Tarbolton (actually they were on the Millburn Farm just outside Tarbolton).
I have searched for a Jean Lees born in Ayr and have not found any records.
The information that I have been using - so far - has been
1- Family Search (data for both possibility's)
2- Scotlandspeople (data for both possibility's)
3- Rootsweb -
4- Ayrshireroots - found "Descendants of William Wilson -1675" (here is listed all the children born in Tarbolton.
I doubt that all these children (23 in total) could have been from the same couple but born in Ayr and Tarbolton.
I have done the reseach on all the Tarbolton children and have found descendants on two (John 1757 & Robert -1769) and their children are all from Tarbolton.
I'm still confused. I guess I'll try and research the children from Ayr and maybe something will show up to help select the correct family of mine.
Any other suggestions - anything will be a help
Tom
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Hi Tom
I'll have to have a think about it all as I've checked out wills but not MIs.
Can you talk me back through your ancestors to William Wilson and Jean/Jane Lees.
There might be a few clues by looking at the line in detail.
JL
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Hi JL
My direct line starts with a John Lees (b:abt 1680) and was originally researched by an ancestry research company in Edinburgh, some time ago. They found:
- He had 4 sons - Joseph, John (my direct line - 5th great grandfather), Adam and Samuel.
- Adam is my 5th great grand uncle who had a daughter Jean (1st cousins 6 times removed - my problem at the moment).
My direct ancestors follows the John Lees's until 1907 when my father Thomas was born. In 1912 he came to Canada with his parents and siblings.
All of the John Lees's farmed at Milburn Farm as far back as late 1700 (John Lees Portioner of Millburn)
I have many documents from SP, etc verifying a great deal of my research. Except for a few areas of uncertainty (namely this Jean and William Wilson problem) I'm quite confident of my findings.
I hope this info helps and any info. you can find to solve my Jean/Jane - William Wilson dilemma is appreciated
Tom
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Hi Tom
I meant going back from maybe your (say) 3 x great grandparents to William and Jean rather than the other way.
JL
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Hi JL
Let’s try this
*John Lees – 3rd great grandfather
Born 1764, Park Tarbolton
Died 1850, Tarbolton
Married Grizal Wallace 1796, Tarbolton
*John Lees – 4th great grandfather
Born 1731, Tarbolton
Died 1824, Tarbolton
Married unknown
Children:
*James born 1757, Overtown, Tarbolton
*Mary born 1758, Overtown, Tarbolton
*Janet born 1760 Park, Tarbolton
*John born 1764 Park, Tarbolton
*Margaret born 1767 Park, Tarbolton
*Mary born 1769 Park, Tarbolton
*Jean born 1773 Park, Tarbolton
*David born 1775 Park, Tarbolton
*John Lees – 5th great grandfather
Born about 1700, Drumley, Tarbolton
Married Margaret Dunlop 1729, Craigie
Children:
*Mary born 1729, Craigie
*John born 1732, Barnwell, Craigie
*Adam born 1734, Barnwell, Craigie
*Mary born 1737, Craigie
*David born 1738, Drumley, Tarbolton
Samuel born 1741, Drumley, Tarbolton
John Lees – 6th great grandfather
Born about 1680
Married unknown
Children:
Joseph born about 1700, Dowra, Tarbolton; married 1733
Children:
*James born 1733, Dowra, Tarbolton
*Elizabeth born 1735, Lochliehill, Tarbolton
*Mary born 1735, Lochliehill, Tarbolton (Twin of Mary)
*Jane born 1737, Lochliehill, Tarbolton
*Janet born, Lochliehill, Tarbolton
*John (above)
*Adam born about 1700, Craigie; married Jane 1728, Craigie
Children:
*Jane born 1730, Craigie, married William Wilson 1749, Ayr
*John born 1732, Craigie, married Elizabeth 1758, Ayr
*William born 1734, Craigie, married Janet Goldie 1754, Ayr
*Elizabeth born 1736, Craigie
*Anna born 1738, Tarbolton
*Janet born 1742, Braehead, Tarbolton.
The names with an * indicate I have SP documentation.
Well JL, I hope this will help you (me) in a decision.
Cheers
Tom
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Hi Tom
I've had a good look at all the baptisms to the two couples.
I think that there are maybe 3 William Wilsons in the Tarbolton list so it's difficult to sort them out. However, I don't see any proof that any of them married your Jane in 1849 so that leaves the Ayr couple as the most likely.
Reason - Adam was married to a Jane
Adam born about 1700, Craigie; married Jane 1728, Craigie
so that there should be at least a Jane/Jean and an Adam to the Tarbolton couple. There is an Adam ( 1755) and a Jean (1762) but they were to different Williams (based on the residence pattern and dates)
The Ayr couple's first daughter was a Jane (1750). They also had an Adam (1759). I'm now trying to discover whether William's mother was an Isobel (variations) ::)
Wilsons are not much fun at all. I have them :-\
JL
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Hi JL
Good luck with your research (for me). I look forward with baited breath for any results. I'm also continuing to narrow down which one (Ayr or Tarbolton) is mine.
I have several Wilson in my tree and YES they are a difficult group.
Once again JL, thanks for your quick replies and much appreciated assistance. :)
Tom
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Hi JL
I found an item titled "Descendants of William Wilson"
In it there are is a number listed in front of each name. Do you have any idea what it refers to
Example:
William WILSON #479 b. 15 MAR 1718, AYR, Ayrshire, 16 MAR 1718, AYR, Ayrshire (Presbyterian), occupation Farmer, m. 25 JAN 1749, in AYR, Ayrshire (Presbyterian), Jean (Jane) LEES #480, b. 1730, CRAIGIE BY KILMARNOCK, Ayrshire, 14 JAN 1730, CRAIGIE BY KILMARNOCK, Ayrshire, (daughter of John LEES #7437 and Unknown (Mrs) LEES #7438) buried: aft 1772
Children are also listed: One example is:
A. Mary WILSON #2001 b. 1749, TARBOLTON, Ayrshire, 3 OCT 1749, TARBOLTON, Ayrshire, d. cir 1755, TARBOLTON, Ayrshire, buried: cir 1755, TARBOLTON, Ayrshire
Tom
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Hi Tom :)
It very much depends where you found it but it looks as if it's a listing of people in someone's tree - #479 would possibly mean that William Wilson was the 479th person entered into that person's tree.
I also note that they have not looked at the OPR for Jean's baptism and relied on the erroneous index (father wrongly entered as John lees by SP)
On the Mary baptism, William was of Milnburn - ? Millburn!
Just wondering if they picked up odds and ends without doing a thorough check.
JL
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my family the bells from Blantyre have this family in my family tree lees and wilson