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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Caernarvonshire => Wales => Caernarvonshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: lizholt on Monday 17 January 11 00:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I wonder if anyone is able to find an MI for John Jones, age 29, buried at Llanbeblig 17 Feb 1862, after being drowned at sea on the ship May Flower? He was my GG Grandfather. Not to be confused with another, older John Jones, the ship's captain was drowned at the same time.
Thanks
Alison
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Hi and welcome to Rootschat ;D
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Heather
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Hi
From Gwynedd Family History publication MIs Llanbeblig.
Ref. E057
In memory of John Jones, Carpenter, Carnarvon, who was drowned near Puffin Island January 14th 1862 aged 29, and was buried underneath February 17th 1862.
Nos oer ger Ynys Seiriol - a'i daliodd
Nad elai'n ddihangol:
Rhag ewyn moryn marwol
Nid oedd nawn un dydd yn ol.
Eben Fardd
Also John son of the above named by Jane his wife and grandson of Mr Evans, Chandler who died 30th January 1863 aged 5 years.
Er serchus gof am Jane Jones, gweddw yr uchod John Jones yr hon a anwyd Chwefror 24, 1834 ac a hunodd Rhagfyr 31, 1932.
"Yr hyn a allodd hon, hi a'i gwnaeth."
(The Welsh part re. Jane Jones says that she was the widow of John Jones, was born 24th February 1834 and died 31st December 1932.
Capt John Jones, of May Flower is buried a few graves from your John Jones.
EmyrBorth
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Soooo Sad :'(
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Hi
Thank you so much for looking up that information. It's lovely to know that John Jones' headstone is still there, and to have the other details about the family. I hadn't known that Jane's maiden name was Evans, I'd had her down as Williams, so that's going to be really helpful.
It was very sad that John died so young. We have an oil painting of him, painted from a daguerrotype taken just before his last voyage. We also have his Welsh dresser, and his writing desk, which he made himself. His wife, Jane, lived to a good age, and ran a successul tobacconist's shop in Caernarvon.
Thanks again,
Alison
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::) Hi, I'd really like to find out more about the 'Mr Evans, Chandler' mentioned in the above M.I., who was apparently the father of Jane, John Jones' widow.
I've looked through the census for 1861 and 1871, for district 3 in Llanbeblig, where the Jones family lived, and which seems to have had a lot of shops etc, but no Evans, Chandler found so far. ???
I'll keep looking in other district censuses, but if anyone is able to help I'd be really grateful. I assume he would have been born around 1804 - 1814, as Jane was born in 1834.
Thanks
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Hi
Information I've got today has confused me ! I'll get back to you when I've sorted it out.
Emyr
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::) Hi, I'd really like to find out more about the 'Mr Evans, Chandler' mentioned in the above M.I., who was apparently the father of Jane, John Jones' widow.
I've looked through the census for 1861 and 1871, for district 3 in Llanbeblig, where the Jones family lived, and which seems to have had a lot of shops etc, but no Evans, Chandler found so far. ???
I'll keep looking in other district censuses, but if anyone is able to help I'd be really grateful. I assume he would have been born around 1804 - 1814, as Jane was born in 1834.
Thanks
There is a John Evans, Tallow Chandler at Pool Street and various other addresses in the trade directories: http://www.carnarvontraders.com/tallow.html
Check this reference for 1861 census, could be the right John Evans.
RG9; Piece: 4343; Folio: 81; Page: 4;
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Hi
On gravestone it refers to a Mr Evans,Chandler. I assumed it meant Ship's Chandler. However in report in Welsh language newspaper on finding the body, it refers to John Evans, Canwyllyr, Heol y Llyn. Canwyllwr means Candle Maker, and Heol y Llyn translates to Lake/Pool Street. In a dictionary I've looked up, the term Chandler on its own is defined as, 'A dealer in candles, oil, soap, paint, groceries etc.'
This suggests that the entry referred to by Keith is the right one.
Still have a problem re surnames - no time today to sort that out.
Emyr
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Thanks so much, both of you!
I spent some time looking at censuses last night, and also came across John Evans, Tallow chandler, of Pool Street, who does seem to be the most likely candidate. I also recollect a family story about there having been a candlemaker in the Caernarvon family.
There were two John Evanses, Chandlers, in Llanbeblig, father and son, born abt 1801 and 1822. But neither seems to have had a daughter Jane born in 1834. Their Jane was born in 1824, whereas it now seems that my GG Grandmother Jane Evans was born 24 Feb 1834. (Incidentally, the birth and death dates written in the M.I. seem to suggest that she lived to be nearly 99 years old!)
I suppose the only way to find out is to go through the Llanbeblig Parish Records for a Jane Evans born 24 Feb 1834, and see if her parents are listed. One day I hope to travel to Caernarvon, or wherever the records are kept nowadays. I haven't been to North Wales since about 1988, when we took our children to Caernarvon castle!
Kind regards
Alison
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Alison,
I would be very careful of accepting any dates from the Llanbeblig MI's, they are notoriously inaccurate. It could well be that the actual date on the stone is 1824, but it would have to be checked to be certain. I see that in 1841 John Evans is living in Bangor Street, and daughter Jane is at home, aged 17, so it does appear that she was born in 1824.
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Thanks for that advice, Keith. It certainly looks like this is the right family, I'll try and check out the Parish Records asap.
Thanks again,
Alison
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::) Another complication! The Carnarvon Traders website, Llanbeblig Burial records, show
Jane Jones, of 46 Bangor Street - (Jane Jones' address in 1881, 91 and 1901, and the address of her tobacconist's shop) - buried 8 March 1910, aged 74.
It seems pretty likely that this is the same Jane Jones, nee Evans, because of the address details.
But surely the M.I. can't be THAT wrong!? ???
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Hi
I've mentioned in a PM that I've got a bit confused re the family members.
According to the gravestone, the subject of the topic, John, had a son John by Jane his wife, and that son was the grandson of Mr Evans, Chandler.
According to the report in the Herald Gymraeg at the time of finding the body, it says John Jones was the son of Mrs Evans, wife of Mr John Evans, Canwyllwr (Candlemaker), Heol y Llyn (Pool Street). This suggests that he was the son of Mrs Evans but not of Mr Evans.
I'd assumed after seeing MI that Mr Evans, Chandler, was the father of Jane, wife of John Jones. The newspaper report suggests otherwise.
Emyr
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Thanks Emyr
??? Curiouser and curiouser!
I'll try and get to the bottom of this via the parish records as soon as I can get up to see them. Perhaps they'll shed some light!
Thanks again
Alison
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Hi all!
In the last week I've found some more pieces of paper that my father has put together about his family. Jane Jones, 1834-1910, was his G Grandmother. It seems from a rough family tree that he's done, that Jane's parents were actually Benjamin and Jane Williams.
Dad's filled in one line of his cousins, descended from Jane's brother William Williams, born Llanbeblig 1840. He says that his mother told him all these details, and he knew these cousins well through his life (Dad's 84 now). So I'm sure he's got this right, and it confirms that Jane was born Jane Williams and was not related to the Evans family.
This Jane Jones, nee Williams, also had a sister Elizabeth, 1837-1924, who had a daughter Jane Annie. I've found this Williams family in both 1841 and 1851 censuses, living at Turkey Shore, Llanbeblig. All their ages match up with my father's and grandmother's notes, so this must be the Jane who married John Jones, my GG Grandfather.
;) However, the plot gets thicker, because Dad has also unearthed two bound copies of the diary of John Evans, Chandler (the younger)! These have been passed down through the family as well, and are in Welsh. My aunt had translated some pages before she sadly died a few years ago. It seems that this John Evans was not a family member, but a very close friend of John Jones.
The pages written about John Jones' death, found drowned from the May Flower in 1862, show that he was very upset.
Entry for 13 February 1862:
'A telegraph letter came to my father from John Jones, Diver, Bangor, with news that the body of John Jones, one of the unfortunate hands of the 'Mayflower' had been found. My father went to Bangor with the 1.15 train and telegraphed that the body was that of John Jones, Penllyn, the captain and he was taking him to the house of his wife Ellen Jones by 10 o clock tonight.'
Then the following day, 14th February:
'Examining the body and searching through his trousers they found his knife, hair comb, a 'ginger' and 3 shillings in his pocket. The dead is John Jones, Carpenter, Bangor Street, and he is in the house of Ellen Jones.
The body will be identified at 8 o clock tonight.
E.g.Powel Esq., coroner, examined the body of John Jones in the house of his brother, Hugh Jones, and it was taken to the house of his wife, Jane Jones, Bangor Street.'
17 February:
'Burial of John Jones, Carpenter, aged 29, Bangor Street, with a very large and respectful crowd in Llanbeblig. There were 20 flags carried by the seamen of the town. Ships in the harbour flew their colours at half mast. He was lowered into the grave by his brother Hugh Jones, his cousin Thomas Jones, Felinheli, John Williams, seaman, and John Evans, chandler, Greengate Street.'
I don't know here whether he was referring to his father John Evans chandler, or himself in the third person. It certainly sounds as though he was not related closely to John or Jane Jones, but knew them very well. It does seem as though these were two separate families who were close.
We know that this is the John Evans Chandler, because he talks a lot about making candles, and his father going to Liverpool to buy wax for the candles.
My only explanation for the odd M.I. on John Jones' son's grave is that it may actually say 'John Jones, Godson of Mr Evans, Chandler.'?