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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Suffolk => England => Suffolk Lookup Requests => Topic started by: liverpool5 on Friday 14 January 11 13:53 GMT (UK)
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Hi, I am trying to find the birth of William Edward Elliston born Lavenham between 1800 and 1807. Anyone got any ideas?
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Hi
I have found one born 1803/1804 on the 1861 census (hes living in Newington St Mary at that point and no job is listed) so that might help to pin it down a bit more... On the 1851 hes living in Lavenham still with his wife Mary Ann and working as a Labourer and has 7 children (!!!!). If its the same one hes moved back to Suffolk to Polstead and married an Elizabeth and is back to being an Agricultural Labourer. Possibly one of his children and definitely a grandson live them... Still with us 1881 in same place but on his own.. It says farmer occupying (I wonder if it was tied cottage and the farmer was letting him stay). Not on the 1891. There are two deaths for just william both in 1895. One in June (Sudbury Parish which includes both Polstead and Lavenham) and the other in September (Cosford Parish which also includes P & L) Hes not on the 1841 either... I think that Elizabeth and William got married in 1864 but that is only tenuous from looking at different marriage registrations in that year so it may not be them...
Dee
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Hi, My W E Elliston was proprietor of Horseshoe & Magpie, Fetter Lane, London in 1851 with partner Ann (nee Lock). I know this to be my man as I have the birth certificate of his son, my gt gt grandfather. He died in Stratford, E London in 1879. Thanks for your assistance.
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Good luck with finding out more...
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Having checked out notes from the orignal Lavenham Parish Registers, we don't have a baptism for a William Edward Elliston at that time so it looks unlikey he was baptised in Lavenham even if he was born there.
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Have checked Acton, Bildeston, Boxford, Brent Eleigh, Brettenham, Chelsworth, Edwardstone, Hitcham, Monks Eleigh, Lavenham, Long Melford, Preston St Mary and Gt and Lt Waldingfield on the Cosford-Database and although there are many Elliston/Ellistone families I was not able to find a William in your time period who left the village.
There are a great many Elliston/Ellistone families in Sudbury.
Pat ...
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Might be worth checking with the original parish records.
An Edward Elliston married Sarah Mills 13/1/1805 Lavenham - they had a large number of children between 1806 and 1826.
More often than not for those times the 1st child appeared shortly after the marriage and there is almost a 2 year gap between the marriage 13/1/1805 and baptism of 1st child (John Thomas) on 14/11/1806. Unusual for the time so wonder whether William Edward Elliston was born 1805 and belongs to them. Also, 2nd. and 3rd. children shown as baptised East Bergholt before family returned to Lavenham so baptism could be there perhaps.
Annette
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Thanks guys.
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Elliston(e) and Alliston(e) are rather common in the south Suffolk and north Essex region, I know since it took us years to find out who exactly our Joseph Elliston from Acton actually belonged to since his baptism was missing but ultimately he was mentioned in his father's Will and there was no other Joseph in the area that it could be!
It wasn't unusual for a two year gap between the marriage and first child, not all had them 9 months after the wedding night. There is also no baptism in Lavenham of a child to Sarah before she married since that had crossed my mind and perhaps he had taken his step father's surname. May be worth double checking this in other surrounding parishes just in case. There were earlier Ellistons in East Bergholt but at present I can't remember whether Edward in Lavenham was one of their descendents or one of the other associated lines.
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I might have some information to help. William Edward Elliston is also my gt gt grandfather and I have been gathering info on him and his son Charles Edward Elliston, also our shared relative. We could only find his birth as possible 1807. Didn't seem to be registered in Lavenham where his parents were at the time so bit of a head scratcher. We also couldn't find his death, but you have found it as 1879, so that's useful to me. Did you know he became a Freeman of the City of London whilst at Fetter Lane? Have all the info on that. Also, he moved to run a pub in Stratford after the Horseshoe and Magpie. Have some details on that. Let me know if interested. Also a couple of interesting newspaper articles about court cases in which he and his son were involved.
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Hi! Apologies for delayed reply. I have seen the Freedom of the City Papers for our ancestor but would be interested in the newspaper articles. I am aware of W E Elliston's time at Horseshoe & Magpie and Engineers Arms. I haven't actually got his death certificate but when he died in 1879 his age was 76 (making him born 1803) and recorded at West Ham which Stratford would have come under. Apart from the children listed in the 1851 census I found a birth in June Qtr 1853 of Frederick William Elliston (mothers maiden name Lock, Elliston spelt erroneously as Elleston) Poor Frederick died in the same Quarter and buried in Fetter Lane Ground. I am descended from William Edward Lion Elliston born 1847 who had an adult baptism in 1884 as Robert William Lyon Elliston. Seems you are descended from his brother Charles Edward Elliston. I am curious as to why he began putting himself down as British Subject born Spain!
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I haven't actually got his death certificate but when he died in 1879 his age was 76 (making him born 1803) and recorded at West Ham which Stratford would have come under.
We also couldn't find his death, but you have found it as 1879, so that's useful to me.
Welcome to Rootschat Sussex22 :)
liverpool5 - is this the death entry you refer to?
ELLISTON, WILLIAM 76
GRO Reference: 1879 D Quarter in WEST HAM UNION Volume 04A Page 19
For info. in case you didn't know
The above death entry from GRO indexes is available as a digital image cost £3.00 and is available instantly once payment is completed, a link to the image is provided on the order confirmation screen
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Yes that looks to be the one. I admit I found it years ago when you had to pay for an actual copy of the certificate and hadn't revisited until now.
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Thank you that. Well we are quite closely related! I have extracted the texts of the Newspaper archives from the British Newspaper Archives:
Morning Advertiser, Saturday 22 January 1848
GUILDHALL. Mr. Elliston, of Fetter-lane, was before Mr. Alderman Gibbs, for refusing to repay to the parish of St. Dunstan the rewards which had been paid by the church wardens to certain engineers, for bringing their engines in good order to extinguish a fire which happened in the chimney of his house the 4th inst. Elleman, the Beadle, stated that the Common Council had sanctioned the payment of the rewards, reduced to 2/., and the defendant refused to repay the amount. John Wilson, of the fire brigade, said he was called to the fire. He found there had been explosion of gas in the shop, but no part of the premises was set fire to except the chimney. That was on fire as high he could see, and a second chimney, which communicated with it, was also on fire. was not able to leave satisfied that all was safe till he had been there half hour. The chimney, and only the chimney, was on fire, beyond all question. Mr. Alderman Gibbs asked the defendant why he objected to pay? Mr. Elliston said he objected, because the fire did not originate in the chimney. There was momentary explosion of gas, which burnt his face and damaged his property, without setting-fire to any part of the premises. The violent concuss on shook some soot down the chimney into a good fire in the grate, and thus fired the little soot in the chimney. But there was no ground for alarm, and his chimneys had been lately rebuilt. Mr. Alderman Gibbs asked when his chimneys were last swept. Mr. Elliston said a fortnight before the accident. Mr. Alderman Gibbs said the intention of the law was to punish those who, by their negligence in any way, set chimneys on fire. There was no doubt in this case, that the fire began in the house, not in the chimney. He thought it was a case in which the payment of the rewards must fall on the parish instead the householder; and dismissed the summons.
Morning Advertiser, Thursday 9 May 1850
POTMAN, or POTMAN and WAITER, respectable, single, young Man, aged with excellent character. Direct to T. H., Mr. Elliston's, Horseshoe and Magpie, Fetter-lane, Fleet-street.
Morning Advertiser, Thursday 3 October 1850
AS POTMAN, WAITER and POTMAN, respectable young Man, in a respectable House of Business, with an excellent character from his last situation. Direct to T. H., at Mr. Elliston's, the Horseshoe and Magpie, Fetter-lane. City.
Morning Advertiser - Friday 20 June 1851
Licence Victuallers’ School, Kennington Lane, Lambeth. The forty-fifth anniversary dinner of this institution will take place at Highbury Tavern, Islington on Thursday 3rd of July next. Tickets 7s 6d each may be had of The Stewards, viz (long list including) Mr Elliston, Fetter-lane.
Morning Advertiser, Thursday 6 December 1855
As Potman or Waiter and Potman, a respectable young Man, with a good character-has been used to the out-door trade, and to serve factories and wharves. Direct to T. H, at Mr. Elliston's, the Horseshoe and Magpie, Fetter-lane.
Then next appears as proprietor of a pub in Stratford: Proprietor of The Engineers Arms, 8 Angel Place, Stratford, London, Petty Sessions Sept 1872 and in 1874 Kelly’s Directory
Had left by 1877 per Kelly’s Directory.
I wonder where William Edward Elliston was between The Horseshoe and Magpie which he seems to have left around 1860 and doesn't seem to be anywhere until 1872 at the Engineers Arms. Yes, why did his other son, Charles Edward, my gt grandfather claim he was born in Madrid, Spain? Weird one that.
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Hi! Thank you for the newspaper articles. I found W E Elliston on Land Tax records in 1865 and 1866 living in Castle Street, City of London which my Victorian map tells me ran parallel with Fetter Lane. Also this may be him in 1861 living with Arthur Lawson & family at 39 Lorrimore Street, St Mary Newington, Lambeth. No occupation is listed for him and says he's unmarried, but Ann had died by then and I've yet to find a marriage for them anyway! Says he was born 1804 at Lavenham.
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Helpful and interesting. More to think about. There is a Land Tax record also in 1854 for a William Edwd Elliston at 5 Little Shire Lane, St Clements but I can't find anything more about that as yet. I suspect from the licencee details for the Horseshoe and Magpie he owned it, or at least the lease, as there are a succession of licence changes whilst he owned the business, but never him. I presume you know there is a line drawing of it with his name proudly displayed above the door?
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Looks like we have more work to do 😅 These ancestors keep us busy, some more than others! Yes I have a copy of the drawing of H & M proudly framed and displayed in our dining room. If I go for the death certificate I'll be sure to share details with you.
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I am descended from William Edward Lion Elliston born 1847 who had an adult baptism in 1884 as Robert William Lyon Elliston.
These 2 were brothers and definitely 2 separate individuals!!
Robert William Lyon Elston, mmn Lock, birth Mar.qtr.1846 West London
William Edward Lion Elliston, mmn Lock, birth Jun.1847 West London
Charles Edward Elliston, mmn Lock, birth Sept.1849 West London.
In 1851 the 3 brothers were visitors residing in Cheshunt.
Robert William Lyon Elliston baptised 1884 as an adult was surely the eldest of these 3 brothers and not William Edward Lion Elliston as you are stating? i.e. you descend from Robert not William. I can find no trace of William after 1851 so don't know what became of him.
Annette
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Hi Annette! What you say makes perfect sense. I was given the information some years ago by an uncle who received the information from a cousin who had allegedly employed the services of a genealogist. This would have been back in the days of huge ledgers and not so easy as today where you can try out all manner of spellings at a click. I guess I'm guilty of being lazy and not checking it out myself! Thank you for opening my eyes to what was obvious all along 🤗