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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Luzzu on Thursday 13 January 11 15:57 GMT (UK)
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Hi,
I am looking for any information on Adelaide Dillon nee Gough/Goff:-
So far I know she married Henry Dillon ca 1857 (according to the 1911 census they had been married for 54 years). She was aged 69 in 1911. She died in 1915 in Chorlton, Manchester.
I have her in 1891 - RG12/3172/80 p4 and in 1901 - RG13/3685/92 p 1 as well as 1911. She was born between 1842-1846 in Malta.
Henry and Adelaide's known children are:-
Henry George born 24 Mar 1860 at Thorncliffe, Kent (male Dillon Elham 2a 751);
Michael John born 26 Sep 1862 Montreal, Canada and bapt 12 Oct 1862 at the Church of St Patrick, Montreal;
Mary Anne born ca 1864 in Canada and bapt at St John’s Cathedral, Quebec;
George born ca 1872 in Malta;
Priscilla born ca 1874 in Italy (no record after appearing on 1891 census in Manchester);
Alexander James born ca 1878 in Malta;
Mary R born ca 1882 in Malta;
Henry died in 1888 (buried in Phillips Park, Cemetery, Manchester) and Adelaide was recorded in Manchester living at 52 Elizabeth Street, Gorton. In 1901 they were still in Elizabeth Street, Adelaide at number 52 with eldest son, Henry George and his family at number 48. Adelaide died in 1915 in Chorlton, Manchester.
Eldest son Henry George Dillon married Carmella Darmanin In Malta ca 1893 who was Maltese and second son, Michael John married Mary Buck in 1916. Alexander James married Amy Parker in 1906 and he served in WW1. I have found his service record on Ancestry.
I have Henry's service record but it is very difficult to read. He was born 23 Nov 1830 in Ireland (possibly Kiltulagh near Galway). He joined the army 23 Oct 1848 (98731) at the age of 17 years and 11 months. He served in 47th Regiment of Foot as a Private from 23 Dec 1848 and transferred to Royal Canadian Rifles 13 Apr 1863. He was discharged 11 Jan 1870, aged 29, after 21 years of service, with the intention to live in Liverpool (don't think he ever went there though). He died 28 Mar 1888, aged 57, in the Chorlton Union (Withington) Workhouse, Manchester and was buried in Phillips Park Cemetery 3 Apr 1888 grave no RC F 572.
I would really like to find a marriage for Henry and Adelaide.
As always any help is much appreciated.
Luzzu
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It seems he was in the army at the time of the marraige, and he certainly moved around the world!
Have you tried the overseas marriages (available I think on line at FindMyPast, otherwise I am not sure where now - used to be in big books at the Family Record Centre and before that at ST Catherines House, but both now closed)
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Thanks for your reply. Have checked the overseas marriages but just can't see anything. Its a real puzzle and I really need the marriage to go any further because I have no idea who their fathers were.
Luzzu
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Hi Luzzu
There is a possible death for an early born son showing on http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
James Dillon, aged 3, buried on 28 January 1861 in Dover, England - parents Henry (Hy.) and Adelaide Dillon.
Monica
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That looks very promising. I can see the reference for his death on FreeBMD but not his birth so it is looking likely to be an overseas birth. Knowing his birth was ca1858 narrows down the marriage date a lot and if I can find out in which country James was born, maybe they married in the same country.
At least I can see a way forward now.
Thank you.
Luzzu
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Hi Luzzu
If Henry was in the 47th foot around 1857 , can you find where they were stationed? When I Googled "47th Foot" I found a reference to the regiment being in Malta in 1857, and then returning to England. I guess this needs checking
Does anyone know where to check?
Barbara
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A little bit here on the regiment's movements (seems to fit with most of the children's birth places) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/47th_%28Lancashire%29_Regiment_of_Foot Less clear on the movements through the 1870s when some of the children show as born back in Malta, and one in Italy.
The Armed Forces board here on RC will hopefully be able to provide further details :)
Monica
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And my info came from this web page
http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/page3f-CorporalJohnMcDermondVC47thFoot.html
Barbara
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Its a bit of a slog, but if you go through the online newspaper archives you can find lists of the various regiments' postings.
If you search on "47th Foot" then scroll down the list of results (about 400 for period 1856-1860!) looking for the headline "Stations of the British Army" or something like, you gets lists of where they all are.
For example
3 May 1856 (thats the date of the newspaper) 47th foot in Crimea; depot at Templemore - for Malta.
6 Mar 1857: 47th Foot in Malta, depot at Fermoy
1 Nov 1858: 47th Foot in Aldershot, depot at Cork
2 May 1859: 47th Foot in Aldershot, depot at Cork
there are more than that! But you get the picture.. I've done this looking for a birth (didn't find it :'( but at least got a picture of the parents whereabouts)
Avoid the London Gazette reports for this purpose, they tend to be promotions of individual officers.
Good luck!
:) Barbara
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Thanks for all your excellent suggestions. Will certainly follow them. To me it makes sense that they got married in Malta looking at the where the regiment was but so far haven't found anything. I have been browsing through the overseas births and marriages indexes this afternoon and don't seem to be getting anywhere. I did this a while ago but thought I would have another trawl through in case I had missed anything especially as baby James is new information. I understand that not all overseas bmd's got registered and it depended on the efficiency of the individuals who were responsible at the time. Also Adelaide was born in Malta according to the census so again that makes sense that she would have got married here.
Barbara - which newspapers do I need to look at? I can access The Times and the Guardian/Observer and also Gale Newspaper Vault but never had much success with that one.
He was discharged from the army in 1870 and it is possible (according to family stories) that he was employed by the Malta Police - that's another problem - there don't seem to be any records surviving. Also he would have been a civilian when he travelled back to Manchester and so far I haven't found the family on any passenger lists.
Thanks for helping me.
Luzzu
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Barbara - which newspapers do I need to look at? I can access The Times and the Guardian/Observer and also Gale Newspaper Vault but never had much success with that one.
I was looking in the Gale archive via Lancashire library online access. The lists I've quoted below were from the Morning Chronicle, a London paper. The format is the headline 'Stations of the British Army' and the list always starts with the sentence "Where two places are mentioned, the last-named is that as which the Depot of the Regiment is stationed"
I've just tried the search again (search term "47th foot" in Morning Chronicle, between 1857-1861 and got 73 hits, but not all of them are the lists. Its all very hit & miss!
The same search in the Times produced 41 hits including
Thursday, Jul 08, 1858; pg. 5; Issue 23040; col C
Military And Naval Intelligence
Category: Official Appointments and Notices
"... the 47th Foot, under the command of Col O'Grady Haly CB, received unexpected orders yesterday afternoon to vacate their quarters at Portsmouth and move to Aldershott [sic] on Saturday...but it is probable that the court-martial now sitting on two officers of the 47th may delay the movement a few days"
Very much looking as if the 47th were in England for at least the 2nd half of 1858 ???
:) Barbara
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Thanks Barbara. I will have a look through. It will be a break from Overseas BMD indexes ::).
Luzzu
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Barbara, I think you can also get to some of the info you were finding with this google search - "47th foot" +1857 brought up this link - Distribution of the British Army 5 September 1857 http://carl.army.mil/nafziger/857IAA.pdf
Changing years, e.g. 1858, brings up Distribution of the British Army, 3 July 1858 http://carl.army.mil/nafziger/858GAA.pdf
Monica
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Thanks Monica. That really does back up Barbara's findings that they were in England in 1858. In fact it looks like the 47th didn't go anywhere for a while after returning from Gibralter in Sep 1857, the page for 1859 still has them in Aldershot.
???
Luzzu
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Wonder if Adelaide went back to/stayed in Malta for birth of her first child?
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Certainly possible Barbara especially if her parents were here. I would have expected him to be registered as an army birth though. He could have been registered in Malta but its not possible to search indexes here and the Public Registry will only help with an exact date >:(. If they married in Malta the marriage could have been registered in Malta and again I've got the same problem.
Luzzu
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I did once apply to the Public Registry for one of Henry and Adelaide's grandchildren and gave a name and my best guess for a date and they sent me a certificate for one of their other grandchildren that I didn't know existed because he died young so may be I will give it a go. They only charge 2.33 euros and refund if they don't issue a certificate so it's not a gamble really.
Just got to work out some best guesses for their marriage and baby James' birth as I think they seach 6 months either side of the date given.
:D
Luzzu
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>:( >:( >:(
Just checked the website and they only keep records back to 1863, prior to that they are in the Church archives, so you have to apply to the relevant parish.
Another plan foiled.
Luzzu
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Barbara - which newspapers do I need to look at? I can access The Times and the Guardian/Observer and also Gale Newspaper Vault but never had much success with that one.
I was looking in the Gale archive via Lancashire library online access. The lists I've quoted below were from the Morning Chronicle, a London paper. The format is the headline 'Stations of the British Army' and the list always starts with the sentence "Where two places are mentioned, the last-named is that as which the Depot of the Regiment is stationed"
I've just tried the search again (search term "47th foot" in Morning Chronicle, between 1857-1861 and got 73 hits, but not all of them are the lists. Its all very hit & miss!
The same search in the Times produced 41 hits including
Thursday, Jul 08, 1858; pg. 5; Issue 23040; col C
Military And Naval Intelligence
Category: Official Appointments and Notices
"... the 47th Foot, under the command of Col O'Grady Haly CB, received unexpected orders yesterday afternoon to vacate their quarters at Portsmouth and move to Aldershott [sic] on Saturday...but it is probable that the court-martial now sitting on two officers of the 47th may delay the movement a few days"
Very much looking as if the 47th were in England for at least the 2nd half of 1858 ???
:) Barbara
In June 1858 The 47th Foot were at Cambridge Barracks Portsmouth when my 2nd great grandfather Sgt Henry Bishop got married.
Regards Keith
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Thanks Keith,
I think the most likely place for the marriage was Malta between 3 April 1856 and 3 April 1857. The 47th left Malta in May 1857, I think they went to Gibraltar next but am not sure. On the 1911 census Adelaide (even though she was a widow) said she had been married for 54 complete years. Adelaide was born in Malta too so I would say this would point towards a marriage in Malta.
Luzzu
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Hi Luzzu
I have the following for the movements of the 47th regiment. hope it helps.
Distribution of the British Army
3 February 1849, Limerick
Arrived Corfu Feb 1851
Distribution of the British Army
26 June 1852 Vido, just off the mouth of Corfu city port.
Malta.
47th (Lancashire) Regiment. Arrived 30th March 1853, Anna Maria Freight ship, 7 Officers, 9 Sergeants, 2 Drummers, 183 Rank and File, 14 Women, 28 Children, from Corfu
Verdella barracks on April 11 1854
Arrived Turkey 16 April 1854 on the Sultan or the Apollo towed by the sultan on th 18th April.
Distribution of the British Army
30 September 1854 Turkey
Varna bay, Bulgaria. Sept 4th 1854 Ship No 91 The Melbourn
September 5, Allies embark at Varna for the Crimea.
September 14, Allies land unopposed at Kalamata Bay, north of Sevastopol.
September 19, Allies encounter Russians at the River Bulganek.
September 20, the Battle of the River Alma.
The 47th landed with the rest of the British at the ominous sounding Calamity Bay. The British and their French allies then began the journey to the important Russian naval base of Sevastopol. On the 20 September the regiment, as part of the 2nd Division, was involved in the Battle of Alma, a battle that was bloody, especially at the 'Great Redoubt', a Russian earthwork.
On 5 November the regiment took part in the Inkerman. The numerically superior Russians had attempted to break the Siege of Sevastopol, besieged since 19 September, and attacked British and French forces on the heights of Mount Inkerman. The battle was brutal, chaotic hand-to-hand fighting prevalent during parts of the battle. The Russians were repelled but at a heavy price. Over 8,000 causalties were sustained by the British and the Russians over 11,000. The regiment was part of the force besieging Sevastopol, a long siege that lasted from September 1854 to September 1855 when it was captured by the British.
Returned to Malta July 1856
47th (Lancashire) Regiment. Left 25th May 1857, Adelaide, left 27th May 1857, HMS Vulture, both to Gibraltar
George’s records state that he was in Gibralta for 3 months before returning to England in August 1857
Distribution of the British Army
5 September 1857, Portsmouth
Distribution of the British Army
3 July 1858, Portsmouth
Arrived Aldrshot 25th November 1858
Distribution of the British Army
3 September 1859, Aldershot
Arrived Shorncliffe 25th August 1859
Distribution of the British Army
31 March 1860, Shorncliffe
Arrived Dover 25th April 1860
Arrived Dublin 6th April 1861
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This is great, thank you for posting. I have identified a marriage for them here in Malta on 10 May 1857 but I am still looking for the birth of their first child circa 1858. He died at Hougham and was buried in Dover in January 1861. The next known child (I still have two children to find and there could have been one in between) was born at Shorncliffe in March 1860.
Luzzu :D
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Hi Luzzu
Sounds like things are slowly falling in to place.
I also have the following.
Aldershot 25th November 1858
Shorncliffe Folkstone Kent 25th August 1859
Dover 25th April 1860
Dublin 6th April 1861
Montreal Canada 5th July 1861
Kingston Canada 7th May 1863
London Canada 9th June 1864
Hamilton Canada 21st September 1864
Toronto Canada 25th April 1865
Halifax Nova Scotia 25th July 1866
Trinidad, West Indies 13th January 1869
Dublin 13th July 1870
? 1st October 1970
Fleetwood 25th September 1871
Preston 13th September 1873
Aldershot 4th July 1874
Jersey 3rd July 1876
Athlone 16 June 1877
Dublin 15th April 1878
I believe they sailed from Dover to Dublin passing through Liverpool on April 6th 1861 before sailing to Canada.
Best of luck with your search.
Mosschops.
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Thanks :D
Luzzu
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This is great, thank you for posting. I have identified a marriage for them here in Malta on 10 May 1857 but I am still looking for the birth of their first child circa 1858. He died at Hougham and was buried in Dover in January 1861. The next known child (I still have two children to find and there could have been one in between) was born at Shorncliffe in March 1860.
Luzzu :D
Luzzu, Not sure if it helps but my GG grand father was born in 1859 In aldershot Barracks, His father was in the 47th. His birth was not recorded in the Army births but at the General Register Office.
Regards
KB
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Thank you. The child who was born at Shorncliffe in 1860 was on the GRO births and not the Army births.
Luzzu :)