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Research in Other Countries => New Zealand => New Zealand Completed Requests => Topic started by: ajf25 on Monday 10 January 11 04:40 GMT (UK)
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Would it be normal practice for a war death to have a BDM index entry?
Thomas Gray Ranger, b. 1906 NZ died aged 37, 1942 ref 1942/25763
I don't know if he served during WW2 or whether it was a civilian death.
Being new to NZ research, I can't find any online databases on those who served in the military. Am I just not looking hard enough? I am aware that digitised service records don't seem to be available to the online public.
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Alison ???
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Hi ajf25,
I think the answer to your first question is no, but I'm not sure.
If you go to the NZ Resources page http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,493443.0.html you will see a link to the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. Have a look for him there for starters.
Spades
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Hello...he's not in CWGC which is promising
http://www.cwgc.org/debt_of_honour.asp?menuid=14
The Burial Locator CD lists him as buried at Warkworth Anglican cemetery. If no-one else offers I may be able to look up his memorial inscription later in the week.
Archives NZ mentions him as well.
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/
Regards
Beg
Ooops...sorry Spades :-(
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No sign of him on Cenotaph database either
http://muse.aucklandmuseum.com/databases/cenotaph/locations.aspx
John B
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199015 Ranger, Thomas Gray, Labourer, care of Post -office, Leigh.
this was a ballot OCT 2 1940 that was in NZ Gazette
called up for service in territorials
so may not have gone to war
would pay to email army site, they are very helpful.
Bye
Althea
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The Burial Locator CD lists him as buried at Warkworth Anglican cemetery. If no-one else offers I may be able to look up his memorial inscription later in the week.
Regards
Beg
Thanks Beg, that would be great, but please only at your convenience. The Auckland Council website has an online cemetery database, including for Warkworth, but I'm not bringing up any results.
Thanks also to Spades, John B and Althea for your help.
Alison :D
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Hi Alison,
He is in the Anglican Church Cemetery,not the public cemetery
Cheers Janette
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Hi Alison,
There is a divorce for him at Auckland Archives
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=19134946
I can look at that for you some time this week if you would like ;D
Cheers Janette
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Would it be normal practice for a war death to have a BDM index entry?
Hello Alison,
Out of curiosity, and in response to your initial question, I went to Papers Past (old NZ newspapers website) and chose a few random issues of the Evening Post from the 1939-45 period.
Looking through the Roll of Honour I made a note of a few of the names of our deceased servicemen. I entered these names into the NZ BDM Historical website and, with the help of the "search from" and "search to" boxes, every single serviceman's death came back as "Died on 31st Dec 1945" and "No record of birth date or of age at death".
I then entered a few common surnames (Smith, Jones, Wilson, Brown) as dying on 31 Dec 1945 and got several hundred hits, all listed as having no record of birth date or age at death.
I've no proof but I think this is how the BDM Historical website lists our servicemen who died in WW2. For what reason, I don't know. And I wouldn't be surprised if someone very quickly disproves me.
The BDM Historical website lists Thomas Gray RANGER as having died on the 4th of July 1942 aged 37 so I'm guessing he wasn't killed on active duty. More than happy to be proven wrong :-)
Regards
Beg
PS Will try and get the M/I from the cemetery microfiche later in the week
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Hi beg
I think you are onto something
looking at BMD site under timeline, 1945 they started entries
1945 Recording of Second World War plus any future Service personnel death e.g. Korean, Vietnam.
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/Timeline/
Bye
althea
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He is in the Anglican Church Cemetery,not the public cemetery
That explains why I couldn't find him ::)
There is a divorce for him at Auckland Archives
http://archway.archives.govt.nz/ViewFullItem.do?code=19134946
I can look at that for you some time this week if you would like ;D
That would be great Janette, but as with Beg, please only if you have time.
Beg and Althea, it's amazing the other questions that can come from an initial inquiry. The reason I asked was because I've come across a couple of deaths in the NSW bdm that actually have an overseas death place.
Thanks for your help,
Alison :D
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Don't forget Sooty's pages, a lot of information on soldiers there.
Well done Sooty :)
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Here is the link to Sooty's page
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~sooty/
Cheers Janette
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Thanks Janette for the link to Sooty.
I've just found Thomas' mother's (Roseland) arrival in NZ.
Lots of other parts of the site for me to explore too.
Alison ;D
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Hi Alison
I see on BDM's his mother has different spellings
1893 Ranger Mary Ann Rose Robert Franklyn
1894 Ranger Charles Hirau Rosalind Robert Franklyn
1899 Ranger Robert George Rose Robert Franklyn
1905 Ranger Robert Frederick Roseland Robert Franklyn
1906 Ranger Thomas Gray Rosalind Thomas Franklin
1907 Ranger William Rosalind Robert Franklyn
1909 Ranger James Mason Roseland Robert Franklin
1910 Ranger Ivy Rosalind Robert Franklyn
maybe his father was Robert and not Thomas
Cheers Janette
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Hi Alison,
This looks like his parents marriage
1892 Rose Hawker to Robert Franklyn Ranger
Cheers Janette
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Hello Alison....I've managed to get the headstone inscription but it's a bit of an anti-climax sorry.
It reads simply "Thomas Gray RANGER, 4 July 1942 aged 37"
If you want, I have a scan from the fiche of the cemetery layout which roughly shows the position of his plot (which for the record is Lower Ground, Row 13, Plot 106) Even a rough map might come in handy should you ever decide to visit the grave or request a photo of his headstone.
PM me an email address if you'd like a copy.
Regards
Beg
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Hi Alison
I see on BDM's his mother has different spellings
1893 Ranger Mary Ann Rose Robert Franklyn
1894 Ranger Charles Hirau Rosalind Robert Franklyn
1899 Ranger Robert George Rose Robert Franklyn
1905 Ranger Robert Frederick Roseland Robert Franklyn
1906 Ranger Thomas Gray Rosalind Thomas Franklin
1907 Ranger William Rosalind Robert Franklyn
1909 Ranger James Mason Roseland Robert Franklin
1910 Ranger Ivy Rosalind Robert Franklyn
maybe his father was Robert and not Thomas
Cheers Janette
I think the Thomas is a transcription error, either originally or on the online index. I think the chance of 2 Rose(i)land marrying a .........Frankly(i)n Ranger are extremely remote.
If you want, I have a scan from the fiche of the cemetery layout which roughly shows the position of his plot (which for the record is Lower Ground, Row 13, Plot 106) Even a rough map might come in handy should you ever decide to visit the grave or request a photo of his headstone.
PM me an email address if you'd like a copy.
Regards
Beg
Will do Beg, and thanks. A visit to NZ is on my to do list....one day. Have to get the kids through uni first.
Cheers,
Alison :D
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1911 electoral roll
Electorate Avon supp
Surname RANGER Given Names Roseland
Place of Residence 73 Barbour Street Linwood
Occupation married
no others in Avon electorate same surname
Bye
Althea
Different electorate
Source 1911 Electoral Roll
Electorate Riccarton
Surname RANGER Given Names Robert Franklyn
Place of Residence 177 Webbs Road Fendalton
Occupation gardener
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Thanks Althea. As a newbie to the NZ records, I'm realising you can't find any locality information from the BDM. So it's great to have an address. Most of the family seems to have stayed around the Christchurch area though. I've found a number of the males in the Archives, probate lists, with their location listed.
Roseland's last babe, Ivy who died 2 days after her birth, was born in 1910.
Roseland's death is recorded under Ranger. I imagine the strain of a baby dying would be enough to end many relationships.
Alison
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Here is Robert Franklin Ranger's cemetery entry
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/interment.asp?id=92482
and son William who died aged 17 months
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/interment.asp?id=23958
and baby Ivy
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/interment.asp?id=132567
Cheers Janette
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Hello Alison...
Cemetery layout map sent. Let me know if it's not okay.
Regards
Beg
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There are RANGER newspaper entries here
http://homepages.ihug.co.nz/~ashleigh/
As a newbie to the NZ records, I'm realising you can't find any locality information from the BDM.
You can find where a birth and death are registered but need to look at the fiche and then the registration keys at most NZ and Aus libraries
Bye
Akthea
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Cemetery layout map sent. Let me know if it's not okay.
Thanks Beg, worked perfectly :D
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Thanks Althea,
I think a lot of the information is out there; it's just knowing where to look
Alison
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Here is Robert Franklin Ranger's cemetery entry
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/interment.asp?id=92482
and son William who died aged 17 months
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/interment.asp?id=23958
and baby Ivy
http://librarydata.christchurch.org.nz/Cemeteries/interment.asp?id=132567
Cheers Janette
Thanks Janette, I missed your post when I checked before. Sorry for the late reply.
Alison
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Hi Alison,
I have the divorce file for you,could you please PM your email addy,
Cheers Janette
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Hi Alison,
Files emailed ;D
Cheers Janette
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Thank you Janette,
Interesting reading especially the bit about petitioning him for maintenance when he's the injured party.
Alison :-\
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1906 Ranger Thomas Gray Rosalind Thomas Franklin
maybe his father was Robert and not Thomas
Cheers Janette
I think the Thomas is a transcription error, either originally or on the online index. I think the chance of 2 Rose(i)land marrying a .........Frankly(i)n Ranger are extremely remote.
The marriage cert of Thomas and Letitia proves that his parents were Robert and Roseland.
Alison.
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Thank you very much,
You NZ RCers are certainly extremely helpful. ;D
I now know I have Kiwi rellies (as of a couple of days ago), which is all really exciting, and I know a lot more about them than I would have found on my own.
Cheers,
Alison ;D ;D ;D
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hi, im searching for the children of Robert Franklyn Ranger and Roseland Ranger (nee Hawker) , So far i think i have got, Ivy Ranger, Fredrick robert Ranger, (my Grandfather) and Thomas Gray Ranger?, is there any more ? as i am searching for there childrens history. if any?
Thanks Luke
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Hi Luke,
According to my calculations, your grandfather was my half 2nd cousin twice removed!!!
Children of Roseland Hawker-Robert Ranger:
1. Mary Ann b.1893 #1893/4176 m.Thomas Charles Hudson 1913 #1913/483
2. Charles Hiram b.1894 #1894/14110 d.1966 #1966/36295 m.Eva Leeson 1924 #1924/9448
3. Robert George b.1899 #1899/1499 died at 48hours #1899/1428
4. Robert Frederick b.25 Nov 1904 #1904/11198 d.1974 #1974/39155
5. Thomas Gray b.1906 #1906/7997 d. 4 July 1942 #1942/25763 m. Letitia Eurydice Emily Blackwell 1929 #1929/1018-divorced between 1937-9
6. William b. 1907 #1907/23381 d.31 Jan 1909 Bass St, Woolston, Canterbury NZ, buried 2 Feb 1909 Linwood Cem, Canterbury - block 21, plot 160
7. James Mason b. 1909 #1909/5536 d. 1946 #1946/29274
8. Ivy b. 1910 #1910/23582 died at 2 days #1910/5562
Hope that helps.
I'd love any family history that you would like to share.
Cheers,
Alison
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Hi Alison, thanks for the information ,its great to search our history as my father, (*), does not know much about his grandfather, who I think died while training a horse at addington track, I am interested to know what happened to Rosland Hawker ? Is she burried in NewZealand.
Also I have alot of very early photos from my nanas family, Kathleen Mary Ranger Died 7/9/91( nee Broad) and we are unsure of who they are? I live in Tauranga, new zealand maybe i could email you some photos and see if you could help.
Thanks Luke
(*) Moderator Comment:
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Hi Luke,
Roseland died in NZ (she's on the BDM site), but I don't know where she's buried. Her husband is buried at Bromley Cemetery, Canterbury, block 36, plot 139, so perhaps she is buried either in the same plot or at least at the same cemetery. I won't be able to help with photos as I don't have direct connections with the family. I'm related through Roseland and live in Australia. Her father Daniel's half brother, Solomon is my gg grandfather.
After you make one more post, you can send me a PM, which you can access by clicking on the green scroll under my details on the left of the screen.
regards,
Alison
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HI Alison,
Also do you know the name of the father of Robert Franklyn? birth date and death? and maybe wifes name?
I have a 1948 copy of Fredrick Robert Rangers birth certificate with parents Roseland and Robert, dated 1905, if you are interested in a copy.
Thanks Luke
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Hi Luke,
I found the following information on the NZ online BDM site:
https://www.bdmhistoricalrecords.dia.govt.nz/home/
Robert Franklyn's birth was registered in 1866 #1866/6181. His name is spelt Franklin though. No parents are listed on the index. To find out any more information you would need to order a copy of the certificate, which you can do on that site. Then of course how much information will be dictated by how much there is on the certificate.
I'd love a copy of Frederick's birth certificate. You now have enough posts up to contact me via the PM system. I'll send you my email through that as we're not allowed to show them through the public forum.
Alison ;D
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Thank you very much,
You NZ RCers are certainly extremely helpful. ;D
I now know I have Kiwi rellies (as of a couple of days ago), which is all really exciting, and I know a lot more about them than I would have found on my own.
Cheers,
Alison ;D ;D ;D
Hi, I noticed your interest in Thomas Gray Ranger. I am from NZ on holiday with my nephew at the moment. Thomas was my husbands father so I am interested in your comments! It is interesting to know YOU are enquiring about him. I would be thrilled if you would contact me.
I am from UK originally and married a Kiwi. Frank Ranger, the son of Thomas Gray. Here's hoping????
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Hi AMT,
Welcome to RootsChat ;D
I'd love any information you have of the family. I don't have a great deal on the Rangers, but am happy to share what I have.
Once you've had one more post, you can you the personal message (pm) system. If you just say something like "ok" on a post, your 3 posts will allow you to access it. You just click on the scroll under my profile info on the left hand side.
We can exchange emails there if you have any information you'd like to share.
DON'T put it here; the moderators will remove it.
If my calculations are correct, your husband is my half 3rd cousin once removed. ;D ;D
Cheers,
Alison
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I am new to this game Alison but will share what I have as you suggested. Do you know anything about the parents of Thomas Henry? I have all details of him in NZ and in Australia that you may be interested in.
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Hi Pomkee,
Do you know anything about the parents of Thomas Henry? I have all details of him in NZ and in Australia that you may be interested in.
Do you mean Thomas Grey Ranger ???
I'll send you a pm.
Alison
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I married the son of Thomas Gray Ranger. I have info should ajf25 want more info. ajf may have info for me. Here's hoping.
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Hi Pomkwi,
I'd love any information you have discovered since our last communications. I hope you received the email with the information I've gathered, that I sent you in April 2012. If not, let me know and I'll resend. I haven't found any further information since then.
Cheers,
Alison :)
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I am the daughter in law of Thomas Gray Ranger (deceased) as I married his son Franklyn. Very interested in this subject and have info I would like to share. Thank you.
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Thomas Gray Ranger was the father of my husband (franklyn Charles nelson ranger) I have records of this family if you would like to contact me. He did not serve in the army at all. Rev J Ranger
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I'd love wherever information you have. I'll send you a pm with my email address.
Thanks :D