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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Sussex => England => Sussex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Wozza on Monday 10 January 11 03:38 GMT (UK)

Title: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Monday 10 January 11 03:38 GMT (UK)
I hope I'm on the right board this time, having a bad time navigating.

Regarding a previous posting on James Isted & Mary ? I have been looking at a possible link with them.

In 1802 & 1803 there are two listings for the marriages of a Mary Bysh & Mary Betts LDS
IGI ( old version ) to a James Isted. ( Mary Betts is not mentioned in the new version ).

Between them there are some 9 children born between 1803 & 1818. Problem is, how to
know, who belongs to who. I have a gut feeling that James & Mary Bysh are the ones I'm
looking for, but of course, no guarentees. On behalf of my wife, I'm hoping that some
all knowing Chatter has a trick or two up there sleeve.

Regards, Wozza


Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: omega 1 on Monday 10 January 11 07:38 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

Welcome to Rootschat  :)

On the Sussex Marriage Index

11th Apr 1802 James Isted & Mary Betts married at East Grinstead.

Extra info,James was from West Hoathly

29th May 1803,James Isted & Mary Bysh married at East Grinstead

Hope this helps

Kind regards

omega
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Monday 10 January 11 22:23 GMT (UK)
G'day omega 1. Many thank's for your reply to my enquiry. I was somewhat remiss in
neglecting to mention the two marriages were in East Grinstead.

Specifically, I am trying to find out how to identify which of the afforementioned 9 children
belonged to who, since the mothers maiden surname is never shown for some inane reason. I'm afraid I'm all out of ideas.

Best wishes, Wozza.
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Jane Masri on Wednesday 12 January 11 16:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza,
Are you thinking that these are two different James Isted's or do you think he was widowed & married another Mary shortly after his first wife's death?
I had a look at burials for West Hoathly & although the name Isted appears in 1802 & 1803 for a Thomas in his seventies & an infant, William, no sign of a Mary.  But they might have remained in East Grinstead.
http://www.westhoathly.org.uk/Burials/Burials.html

Jane
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Jane Masri on Wednesday 12 January 11 17:34 GMT (UK)
Wozza, I've just found a members tree on Ancestry for James Isted married to Mary Bysh.  This James was born about 1776 the son of Edward & Sarah & is a farmer at Butlers Farm, East Grinstead.  It looks well researched so if you're not a member of Ancestry & want to contact the tree owner I can do that on your behalf.  The owner is Lisa Lynn Henry in case you already know about it  ;)

Jane
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Wednesday 12 January 11 23:46 GMT (UK)
G'day Jane. Thank you kindly for replying.

Regarding your first reply, no, I did not consider the two as being the one James. Always
a possibility though, and something to remember.

Reply two: The James Isted that I feel may be linked, was. chr. on February 25 1780, at
East Grinstead, Sussex, ( LDS - IGI ). His parents were William Isted,1746 & Sarah Histed and his parents were Henry Isted & Mary ?

All of this, has of course to be still confirmed, ( somehow ).

Kind regards, Wozza
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: omega 1 on Thursday 13 January 11 07:19 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

I took a look at the 1841 census

Living at Butler Farm

James 60
Mary 57
Sarah 30
Frances 11
Henry 8

Forgot to write it down but James & Mary were still at Butler Farm on 1851.

Living at Killicks

James 65
Mary 60
William
John 12

Kind regards

omega
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: omega 1 on Thursday 13 January 11 07:21 GMT (UK)
Oooops

William 15

omega
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Jane Masri on Thursday 13 January 11 15:16 GMT (UK)
This is complicated as there are more than one James Isted baptised in the area at about the same time period & you really need some kind of clue to sort the wheat from the chaff, which I know was your original quest  :)
I would suggest you get in touch with the Ancestry tree owner as she seems to have done extensive research & might just have some information which might help you.
I don't know if the public trees are available to none Ancestry members but you could have a go & have a look.  Just put in James Isted's details & it should come up. If you decide to contact her then just ask & I'll put that in motion. This extended family in & around East Grinstead all seem to be landowners/farmers so there should be documentation out there which could help.  Also they all seemed to enjoy giving their children the same names  ::)
In the meantime this is the marriage of Henry to Mary by licence. 


 Archdeaconry of Chichester Marriage Licence,   21 Nov 1726:
Henry ISTED, hus Worth
 Mary LINDFIELD, Ringfield Sry
 Sponsors ss: IH; Arthur CARTER hus Worth

 
 Horsham, West Sussex,  24 Nov 1726:
Henry ISTED
 Mary LINFEILD, sp

If your not sure what the abbreviations are just shout  :)

Jane
 
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Thursday 13 January 11 22:41 GMT (UK)
Well! Thank you Omega & thank you Jane for your time & input dealing with my quest.

Struth! it just does't get any easier does it ? Omega, I note the age differences of James
& Mary in the 1841 & 1851 census. Surely not the same couple, even with the rounding
up or down of ages. Verrrrrrry confusing methinks.

Jane, If you don't mind I will take up your Ancestry contact offer. Nothing ventured,.
nothing gained they say.

Thanks again for the help, Wozza.
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: omega 1 on Friday 14 January 11 09:23 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

Taken another look at the 1841 & 1851 regarding James & Mary living at Butlers Farm.Both have daughter Frances on them.Ages not to far out.

Something for the back burner

James Isted baptised 19 Mar 1773,son of Henry & Hannah,Hannah`s MN Hasselden,as from SMI  1760

James,10 Dec 1775,son of Edward & Sarah,Sarah`s MN  WOOD,as from SMI 1765

James 26 Feb 1780,son of William & Sarah,Sarah`s MN Histed,as from
SMI 1773
All East Grinstead

Hope this helps in someway

Kind Regards

Omega


Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: janan on Friday 14 January 11 10:18 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

Welcome to Rootschat :D

If it will help I can take a look at the East Grinstead and West Hoathly registers when I next go to the West Sussex RO - the original entires may have extra info to distinguish between the two families, then at least you would have 2 sets of children which would be a start :D

Jan ;)
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Jane Masri on Friday 14 January 11 15:14 GMT (UK)
Wozza, I've sent you a PM.
If you Google, 'Isted Sussex' you'll get some good hits concerning the family plus a couple of good websites,

Jane
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Saturday 15 January 11 10:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

Taken another look at the 1841 & 1851 regarding James & Mary living at Butlers Farm.Both have daughter Frances on them.Ages not to far out.

Something for the back burner

James Isted baptised 19 Mar 1773,son of Henry & Hannah,Hannah`s MN Hasselden,as from SMI  1760

James,10 Dec 1775,son of Edward & Sarah,Sarah`s MN  WOOD,as from SMI 1765

James 26 Feb 1780,son of William & Sarah,Sarah`s MN Histed,as from
SMI 1773
All East Grinstead

Hope this helps in someway

Kind Regards

Omega



   Sadly Omega, These Isteds don't seem to fit the bill, at least as far as I can figure.

However James 1775 could be a chance.

Regards, Wozza.
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Saturday 15 January 11 10:10 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

Welcome to Rootschat :D

If it will help I can take a look at the East Grinstead and West Hoathly registers when I next go to the West Sussex RO - the original entires may have extra info to distinguish between the two families, then at least you would have 2 sets of children which would be a start :D

Jan ;)
  Thank you Janan. Any assistance is greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: swebby on Saturday 15 January 11 10:36 GMT (UK)
There is a will for a Henry Isted of West Hoathly for 1841 and another for Henry Isted of East Grinstead for 1779 that might contain some clues.
You can find them at DocumentsOnline.
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Saturday 15 January 11 12:11 GMT (UK)
Great stuff swebby, I'll check it out tomorrow. It' way past my bed time, but far too
hot for sleeping.

Regards, Wozza
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: janan on Wednesday 19 January 11 15:40 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

Here is the info from the West Sussex Record Office

First the marriages: both James Isted's are bachelors on marriages; the one who married Mary Betts is of West Hoathly, the one who married Mary Bysh is of East Grinstead; interestingly a Mary Bysh witnessed the Isted/Betts marriage, makes me wonder if the two James are related in some way.

Of the baptisms for children of James and Mary in East Grinstead/West Hoathly between 1803 and 1830 only these contain any extra information:

West Hoathly
28 April 1822 Edward Isted son of James and Mary, Labourer of West Hoathly
East Grinstead
11 April 1813 Mary Isted daughter of James and Mary, Farmer of East Grinstead
25 Oct 1818 John Isted son of James and Mary, Farmer of East Grinstead
14 feb 1830 Frances Isted daughter of James and Mary, Farmer of Butlers Farm

Also found these burials
West Hoathly  8 Jul 1846 James Isted 75 of West Hoathly

East Grinstead Dec 30 1858 James Isted 81 Workhouse
East Grinstead Jan 15 1866 Mary Isted 81 East Grinstead

Hope this is of some help in your mission to sort out the two familes :D

Jan ;)
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Thursday 20 January 11 02:33 GMT (UK)
You have obviously put in some time & effort with this Jan, So thank you very much for the same :D.

This morning after receiving your reply, I did two things: one was to go into the old LDS
igi search field and downloaded 23 James Isted's chr.data from 1770  - 1806. The only
helpful one was for James chr. 25 Feb. 1780. East Grintead. Secondly, I did a Google search for Isted Sussex. In all of those links, there was one called " Weald " which is the family tree that this James is shown. Since he is one of the James involved, I thought, what a great way to eliminate some of the children. Sadly :'( There are only three Shown in his line, Sarah 1803, William 1808 And Frances 1830. ( what a massive jump ) all were
chr. in East Grinstead. There was also a Sarah chr. in 1810 ( LDS igi ) I wonder if she is
another line or, replacing the earlier Sarah who may have died infant?

To me it seems that there are children missing, though I may well be quite wrong.

Now back to the now 22 James Isted's, which I have narrowed down to five.

There were five chr. in Horsted Keynes: Sophia 1813, Harriet 1816, Hannah 1819,
William 1825, and John 1828.

( Mary Istead, born 29 Jan.1829
( Mary Istead, chr. 09 Feb. 1829     West Hoathly

( Ann Istead, born 06 June 1810     West Hoathly
( Ann chr. 29 July 1810

Edward Isted, chr. 28 April 1822      West Hoathly


Mary Isted, chr. 1840              Worth
Elizabeth, chr. 1848                Worth

This last group I believe could be in my wifes line

James Isted chr. 06 Oct.1806
Mary           chr. 11 April 1813
George       chr.  04 June 1815 the earliest proven ancestor
John            chr. 25 Oct. 1818


When I look at my wifes line of descent, there is no comparison with all of the others,
( namewise ).

Looks like I have a cold case on my hands Jan. :(

Best wishes,

Wozza :D





Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: janan on Thursday 20 January 11 09:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Wozza

I agree that there appear to be missing children in the two families, suggesting some were born elsewhere. But I take it your feeling is that neither family is the right one? or am I misunderstanding something? Whatever the case it would be best to go back to the earliest proven ancestor you name - George baptised 4 June 1815 and start again, he's the one baptised in Dallington right? This is unfortunately in East Sussex so I can't check the registers for you, it is also quite a distance from East Grinstead (in English terms!) so quite likely to be a different family. The other 3 you list in the same group as George - James 1806, Mary 1813 and  John 1818 are they also from Dallington?

I will give it some more thought
Jan ;)

I've found your George thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,503928.msg3606921.html#msg3606921

So will post anymore thoughts I have there as reading through it I think the East grinstead/West Hoathly family can be discounted, which is something :)
Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: Wozza on Thursday 20 January 11 10:53 GMT (UK)
G'day again Jan. No, James, Mary and John were all chr. in East Grinstead.

If you don't mind I'll list the family Members ( confirmed ) that I have to date.

They are, George, son of James & Mary, Thomas James 1859, Charles Henry 1861, sons of
George & Mary ( nee Morley ). George William 1883, Harry 1887, Tom 1889, Fred 1893,
Charlie 1897. All Reg. at Battle, except Charlie, ( Reg. Steyning ) Sons of Thomas James
and Catherine ( nee Turner ). Elsie M, 1912, George F,1916, Dorothy B, 1920 children of
George William & Edith Susan ( nee Saunders ). Charles Henry,1880, died 1906, George
William,1884, Mary, 1886, James, 1889, Frederick John,1893, Kate, 1896, Alfred Thomas,
1900, children of Charles Henry & Mary ( Polly) ( nee Champion ). George William, b1884
married Katherine Murphy in 1909 and came out to Australia in 1910, followed in 1912, by
his brothers James, Fred' John & Alfred Thomas. In 1921 their parents Charles Henry and
Mary came out as well. The rest of the afforementioned remained in Sussex.

Surprisingly, there are other Isted families out here that are non related.

Anyway, you can see what I meant about the naming pattern.


Best wishes, Jan.

Wozza






Title: Re: James Isted & wife Mary x 2 Who's who?
Post by: janan on Thursday 20 January 11 11:09 GMT (UK)
OK just checked back through my notes and see theat John 25 Oct. 1818 and Mary 11 April 1813 are two of the confirmed baptisms for children of the James and Mary of Butlers Farm East Grinstead and this James and Mary are still in East Grinstead in 1861.  Given that your George remains in Dallington/Ashburnam and Swebby found burials for a James and Mary in Ashburnam who are of an age to be George's parents I don't see that the two families can be connected.

I would definitely go back to your East Sussex thread on the Ashburnam/Dallington families and explore them more and leave the East Grinstead/West Hoathly lot on the back-burner - pretty sure they are just adding to the general confusion :D

Jan ;)