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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: bonnie dundee on Sunday 09 January 11 20:18 GMT (UK)
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I wonder if anyone knows where irish linen weavers who settled in dundee around the 1840s and 1850s originated from? I am searching for Kellys who lived in the Brook Street/Scouringburn area of Dundee.
I have searched the 1851 census which sometimes gives the county of origin, but no luck. Other census years only specify Ireland as birthplace.
My great grandfather was John Kelly who married Catherine Mackay in Dundee at St Andrew's Cathedral in 1859. The address for both is Scouringburn. The 1861 census shows them both having been born in Ireland.
A bit of a tall order, I know - there must be thousands of John Kellys! Any thoughts would be much appreciated.
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hi Bonnie Dundee
welcome to rootschat :)
bit of history here -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/legacies/immig_emig/scotland/perth_tayside/article_1.shtml
ev
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Thanks, Ev - fascinating, a great result.
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does the marriage cert. provide parents names for john and catherine ?
ev
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Yes, it does but there is some confusion here. The names of the mothers of both are, in one instance illegible, and in the other different from the names of the mothers on both John and Catherine's death certificates.
On the marriage certificate John's parents are given as John Kelly and what looks like Mary something. Catherine's parents are given as Patrick Mackay and Margaret Smith. However, on John's death certificate his mother's name is given as Ann Madden-same name as before for father. On Catherine's death certificate her mother's name is given as Margaret McAndrew and, again, same name as before for her father.
I have tried LDS for a match up of all of the above but no luck. However, LDS was able to provide the names and dates of birth for all of John & Catherine's children which was brilliant. However, only my grandfather and one of his brothers survived. All of the other children died either in infancy or in their teens. Tragic.
Hope this isn't a case of giving you "too much information". Don't wish to bore you.
Best wishes.
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no such thing as "too much information"
and you can't bore me with family history ;D
just wondered if the parents were also in dundee to give us another chance
for an irish county ?
ev
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Glad about that, thanks.
Yes, I've been unable to confirm if their parents had also come to Dundee, particulary since I can't be certain of their names. At the time of the marriage, all the parents are "deceased" apart from John Kelly's mother.
I notice you also have Kellys and Huttons in your list of surnames. My Granny Kelly was a Hutton from Arbroath before her marriage.
Best wishes
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A little more reading:
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0dtd/
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http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,134417.0.html
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Thank you for that. It all helps to narrow the search while adding to the social history aspect. Really interesting.
Best wishes
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:)
just to confirm it look like Bonnie Dundee and me are related
not through the kelly's
but through the angus Huttons
cousins 7x removed
really nice to get a contact out of nothing
ev
ps now Bonnie Dundee can bore me with the family history because it my
family history :D
now to remember all the work on the Hutton tree... 1996 at least...that was a good year...
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Also it may be worth checking the Howff burials - I've found the county of birth given for some of my possible ancestors, who came to Dundee from County Offaly ('King's County') and from Drogheda. Not all mine were weavers, there are also various labourers. My Dundee-Irish names were Lynch, Conolly, Cranley, Cassidy.
Michael Lynch seems to have arrived early in the 1820s, and died in 1834 of fever. The others of mine appear in the 1830s and 40s records.
The Howff site is at http://www.fdca.org.uk/FDCAHowffInfo.html
Jenny
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Hi Jenny,
Thank you for your e-mail. Sorry for the delay in responding but I was away.
I was aware of the Howff Burial records and there are some Kellys appearing there. However, its hard to know if they are related to me. Its possible.
King's County does seem a possibility as a birth county and I have also discovered that female spinners from Drogheda went to Dundee around the time my family came from Ireland.
Anyway, good to hear from you. Thanks once again.
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Hi there,
my ancestors came to Dundee from Armagh at this time. They were from a linen-weaving area there so coming for the weaving would be natural. They also lived in Scouringburn. The names were ORR, Barnes, Nairn and Leys. They were protestants or, at least, not catholic.
regards,
Elaine
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Hi Elaine,
Armagh is a possibility. Thanks for that.
Best wishes
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Ev, can I sneak in a Hutton query? On one of my distant Dundee sideshoots, I note an Elizabeth Hutton 1838 to 1900 (she was married to a Robert Farquhar), parents noted on death cert as a John Hutton and Elizabeth Fagger. Have note in my file that surname sometimes recorded as Huttoneli. Seeing as you had a good Hutton year in 1996 ;D, Ev, just wondered if this group of names rang any bells?
Bonnie, on the Irish weavers in Dundee, one of my lines (Flinn/Flynn), seems to have originated from the County Cavan area, so another one to add to your list.
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hi scotmum :)
the IGI/family search has elizabeth hutton born 6th july 1838 , baptised 18th july 1838 perth perth , parents john hutton and elizabeth JAGGER
ev
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Thanks, ev......has been ages since I last looked at this family, so either missed seeing that last time I did, or it has been added to familysearch since then. Will go have a look/see now. She married in Dundee, hence why I was asking if you had come across her in your Dundee research.
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there is also a marriage that may match(john and elizabeth) 13th nov. 1822 perth perth on here -
https://www.familysearch.org/
my hutton's were born redgorton perthshire to david hutton and margaret huoy , the children then seemed to move to angus
my john hutton would seem to be too young to be your john hutton but there
may be a link further back :-\
ev
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Hi Scotmum,
Thanks for your Cavan link. Sorry for not replying sooner.
Best wishes
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hi scotmum :)
the IGI/family search has elizabeth hutton born 6th july 1838 , baptised 18th july 1838 perth perth , parents john hutton and elizabeth JAGGER
and
there is also a marriage that may match(john and elizabeth) 13th nov. 1822 perth perth on here
ev
Long time coming, but thought you might like an update on how your help panned out, ev.
The marriage and birth would seem to be correct and I have now placed Elizabeth and her widowed dad John in Dundee in 1861 (she married in Dundee in 1870). Her dad, it seems, was minister of http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/176570/details/dundee+dudhope+crescent+road+catholic+apostolic+church/ and as well as being listed as a minister in the 1861, I also now have him likewise listed on an 1872 directory for Dundee too as Minister of Catholic Apostolic Church and address as Dudhope Crescent. Elizabeth's son married a side shoot of a sibling in one of my lines, so whilst not directly linked to me, as always, it was interesting to follow through and discover more about all those little off-shoots from branches.
ps looks like John decided to remarry in his later years as he appears on 1871 with a wife, Jessie.
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Scotsmum - glad to hear you have made progress with that. :)
ev