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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => US Lookup Requests => Topic started by: fo55ie on Saturday 08 January 11 07:35 GMT (UK)
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Dear Rootschat
Please could I request assistance in finding Walter William Winchester and Eva Winchester (nee Jones), after 1920
They were married at Grosse Pointe Wayne County Michigan USA on 5th Feb 1919
On the 1920 USA Census there are recorded as living in Wayne County Michigan
Walter was born in Marske, Yorkshire England in 1874 but had we believed that he maybe have been "younger" when he married Eva Jones
Eva was born in about 1896 Llandyssil Montgomeryshire Wales and emigrated to USA with her family (Sisters Elsie & May, Parents Richard & Alice) in the early 1900's
Any help to find Walter & Eva after 1920's would be greatly appreciated
Thanks in advance
Regards
Chris
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I cannot find them after 1920. Just to state facts (in case it helps locate them after 1920):
Border Crossing from Canada to the U.S., arriving September 1916, Walter Winchester, age 41, St Car Motorman, born Marske. Final destination: Detroit, Michigan.
I'll have another look later tonight.
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Were there two Walters?
1920 Detroit Ward 21, Wayne Co., Michigan
Walter W Winchester, age 37, born England, immigrated 1905, Foreman, Ascel or Axel Co.
Eva, wife, age 24, born England, immigrated 1913
740 Drexel Avenue
WWI Draft Card
Walter Winchester, born October 7(?), 1874
Address: 182 Glover Avenue, Detroit; Declared Alien, British
Mrs. Lillian Winchester, wife
General Foreman, Maxwell Motor Car Co.
Medium height, medium build, blue eyes, dark hair
September 12, 1918
There are no deaths on the social security index for a Walter Winchester, born October 7 (between 1873 and 1885). I do not see a Lillian or Eva, born prior to 1899.
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Someone on another site posted the WWI information. They also added that he was born Walter William Winchester Vicborn. He apparently died in 1963 in New York/Canada.
I cannot find him either as a Winchester or as a Vicborn, I'm sorry.
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Reply 1 mentions a Border Crossing in 1916 - it says Walter had been in the USA in 1910 arriving on the Baltic - Looks like he was going to St Johns University. Detroit. Occupation Street Car Motorman. Also mention the relative from country whence came as wife - Lillian- 330/5 ??? Atlantic Avenue. Winnipeg. Manitoba. Place of birth Marske.
The 1910 New York Passenger List - Walter William Winchester. (In Transit) Born about 1875 York. England. Aged 35 years. Port of departuire :- Liverpool Arriving New York 11 April 1910 on SS Baltic. Occupation engine fitter. Brother Mr A Winchester. 91 Albert Road. West Woolwich. Final destination Madoc. Quebec ??? He was going to join Lilian Winchester (sister) ???
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1911 census 334 Atlantic Ave. Manitoba
Walter Winchester 36 Born England. August. Inspector. Anglican. NA
Lillian Edminster 24 Born England. May. Anglican
Added The Proudfoot family are above them on this Census
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1916 Census of Winnpeg. Mantioba - 335 Attautin
Thomas Proudfoot 61 Head. Born England. Immigrated 1906
Margaret Winchester 62 Wife. Born England. Immigrated 1910
Lillian Winchester (Proudfoot) 29 Born England, Immigrated 911
Albert Winchester 3 Born Manitoba
Albert Proudfoot 28 Roomer
George Topping 31 Roomer
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Thank you for looking for them in Canada, Sandra. I didn't try that. ;)
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Albert Winchester, died October 25, 1949, age 36, place: Vancouver, British Columbia.
http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-3AD55C4/search
I wonder if this was Lillian's son?
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Canadian Passenger Lists - for Thomas Proudfoot. Born about 1855 Age: 53
Liverpool. England to Halifax, Nova Scotia and St John, New Brunswick. Date of Arrival: 28 Mar 1908
on SS Corsican.
and Margt Proudfoot. Born about 1855 Aged 54 years
Travelling from Liverpool to Halifax. Nova Scotia - Date of Arrival: 27 Apr 1909 on SS Victorian.
Also travelling Sidney Proudfoot aged 16 years.
Not sure on this one but its the only Lillian Winchester I came across ??? : Lillian Winchester. Born about 1882 Aged 28 years.
Travelling Liverpool to St Johns, New Brunswick. Date of Arrival: 19 Feb 1910 on SS Empress of Ireland. Going to Fort William. Ontario. Occupation:- Nurse.
1901 UK - Proudfoot family in Crook. Durham where Lillian was born
Address 86 High Hope
Thomas Proudfoot 46 (Coke Yard - Labourer) Margaret Proudfoot 46
Fred Proudfoot 23 - Betsey Proudfoot 17 - Lilian Proudfoot 14 - Albert Proudfoot 12 - Sidney Proudfoot 8
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Albert was married to Lorna Doone Berry. Albert born 7th July 1913. Parents Walter Winchester and Lillian Proudfoot.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b81/
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Another link for the death of Albert Winchester
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0b82/
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I understand "forgetting" one's year of birth, but I wonder why someone stated he was born in August? (1911 census)
Unless, he wasn't actually born in October (as was stated on his WWI card)?
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Looking at a family tree which has him under Walter William Winchester Vicborn he also has 3 other wives - ??? The UK BMD Record is Q4 so Oct - Nov Dec 1874 9d 472 - makes the October one look correct ???
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I just closed the sites, but I believe (in 1911) Walter stated he was born August 1882, immigrated 1906.
Also living in Winnipeg was an Albert Winchester, born August 1882, England, immigrated 1906. It looks like he was married to Lilly E Winchester.
:-\
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Looks like the parents Walter Winchester and Isbaella Vicborn married June 1875 Guisborough. Yorkshire - 9d 791. Walter (1874) lives with the Grandparents - Fred Vicborn and Henriette in 1881 and does'nt appear to live with the parents in 1891 or 1901 either.
The brothers or step-brothers were Alfred and Arthur on those census. Alfred died in WW1 and his widow goes on to marry Arthur Winchester. ;)
Could'nt see either brother/step-brother on passenger lists. Looks as if Arthur died in England. :(
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Wow
Dear *Sandra* and Lisa in California
Thank you so much for your help - just amazing - so much to take in
Walter was a Lunatic Asylum Nurse in London before emigrating on the Baltic in April 1910 - Lillian may have worked with Walter before emigrating with her family.
From his "marriage" to Eva Winchester nee Jones, we have come to terms with Walter using numerous dates of birth
To our knowledge we believe that Walter Winchester was the only one from this side of the family to emigrate - The Vicborns are another story :)
If Lillian arrived in February 1910 at Ontario Canada and Walter arrived in April 1910 in USA - and from 1911 Census it shows that they are already married - prearranged or whirlwind romance
Are you able to confirm when and where Lillian and Walter were married - assume Canada
Also, is there any records for Lillian Winchester death
Arthur died in 1943 Romford Essex England
Thanks again
Chris
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Hello Chris,
Your most welcome. Pleased to have been able to unravel a little more. It is strange that on the April 10 Passenger List when Walter lands in New York (written faintly) is what looks like going to sister Lillian Winchester but his marital status is single. Have'nt seen any references to a marriage in Canada but that does'nt mean to say there isn't one.
Unfortunately the privacy laws in Canada are quite strict so it is difficult to find further information. Also Lillian could have remarried and be under a different name when she died. Sorry could'nt be more helpful along those lines.
Regards
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
Do you think that I could order the appropriate Canadian marriage or death certificate/s for Lillian and Walter, if they are not available on line
Thanks, again
Regards
Chris
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Hello Chris,
Think we need to find out if there is a marriage first and where that marriage was. Perhaps an enquiry on the Canada Board cross-referencing this thread would help with that. It may also throw up some further information on the son as well.
Regards
Sandra
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Hi Sandra
Found that Walter William Winchester married Lilian Proudfoot in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada on 5th May 1911
They had a son Albert Winchester born 7th July 1913, who passed away on 25th October 1949 in Vancouver Island, British Columbia, Canada
It seems that each Canadian province has their own rules, as access in viewing vital records - Do you know if this is correct
Also finding it hard to purchase a copy of Walter & Lilian marriage cert on line
Kind regards
Chris
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Hello Chris,
That is good news, it also confirms the birth of Albert who was on the 1916 Census in reply 6 and his death in reply 10.
Canada has very strict privacy laws - Manitoba I believe has the following restrictions applying for certain records:
Births less than 100 years ago - Marriages less than 80 years ago - Deaths less than 70 years ago
One site I came across was $25 for a copy for genealogy purposes but I am not sure if they have restrictions on who can apply for these copies. I will ask a friend in Canada and they will advise you better than I can of the cheapest way to get a copy of the marriage if that is possible. The birth certificate for Albert you would'nt be able to get under the 100 year rule.
Regards
Sandra
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Hi
Re: Reply #20
I am assuming you found the marriage on the Manitoba Vital Events website. Anything on that database can be purchased with no restrictions and I believe the cost is $12 Cdn if they do not have to perform any searches. Just follow the instructions on that page (locate, add to cart, print out form and fax or mail it to Vital Statistics). Having said that, the site is performing miserably for me at the moment....very slow and then I get an error message. They may be doing some maintenance at the moment or having some technical difficulty. Keep trying as I know it works.
http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/Query.php
I can do the lookup of the death in BC of Albert Winchester and give you a transcription of the death registration. I am planning to go to my local FHS library next week so should be able to do it then.
You are correct in your observation that there are no central registries/indexes in Canada for BMDs. As Sandra said, Canada has very strict privacy laws and each province imposes its own even further. Additionally, some provinces are more research friendly than others so researching in Canada can be challenging.
Continued good luck.
Susan
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Hello Susan,
Grateful thanks for checking that out it is very much appreciated - think I understand about the fees now. ;)
Regards
Sandra
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Dear Susan and Sandra
Problem is shipping, as I am UK based :(
I need to get a "quote" for it to be sent to England - as they do not sell them and issue soft copies - do not have facilities to contact them direct by phone
Thanks Susan for your offer - I think I have found Albert Death Cert on a Vancouver vital web-site
I would love to find Albert Winchester marriage certificate to Lorna Doona Berry - but I think they may have married in a different provience and consequently this record not yet available due to it privcy laws
Kind regards
Chris
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Hi Chris
I'm putting a link to the actual "Request for Copy of Genealogy Record" page from the Manitoba Vital Stats site. There is no mention of shipping and handling costs and I'm wondering if they have that factored into the $12 fee. On the page, there is all the contact information....address, telephone number, fax number and email address for inquiries. While you cannot order online, you could send them an email asking if there was an additional cost to mail to the UK and find out how much it is. It doesn't cost much to post one sheet of paper to England and I'm sure that over the years they have sent hundreds to international addresses.
http://vitalstats.gov.mb.ca/GenealogyRequest.php
With regard to Albert's death registration, were you referring to the BC Archives site or the pilot family search site? You will not find any images on either of those sites for BC deaths....they are both indexes. If you order from the BC Archives, it could cost you up to $30 (I think) to get a copy. I can look up the same microfilm at my Family History Society library and give you a transcription for free. The BC death registrations contain a lot of information that most researchers find very useful.
http://search.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/sn-50EEE3F/gbsearch
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1538285
The offer still stands.
You're correct that Albert's marriage registration (assuming that he married in a province where you can find the record) won't be available for a few years given his age.
Susan
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Link to Canada Thread:-
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,507406.0.html
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Interesting to see this. One of my relatives Lily Parkin from Crook, Durham emigrated from England to Canada in 1920. She lists Mr or Mrs Proudfoot address 325 Atlantic Ave Winnipeg as cousins that she was going to live with.
Does anyone have info on the Proudfoot family?
Kind regards,
James