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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Antrim => Topic started by: Nick_Scott on Wednesday 22 December 10 18:12 GMT (UK)
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Now that the 1901 is online, I was able to quickly track down my relatives. I was told they lived in Belfast, but never had any luck searching the microfiche at the FHS.
Looks like the problem was they lived JUST OUTSIDE belfast. However, I'm not exactly sure where. You can see the piece of the census below.
I see both the locations "Belfast" and "Lisburn" listed, plus Ballygomartin, Suffolk, and Shankill, which do not mean as much. But "Dunmurry" is the one that seems the most relevent?
Plus no street address. Does this mean my GGGrandfather, James Scott, lived outside the village, in Dunmurry? By trade he was a Beetler, which would have been a common job in Dunmurry.
According to this website: http://www.lisburn.com/books/dunmurry-changing/dunmurry-1.html The linen trade was the main employer in town.
But now I'm stuck. I can not find any geneological information about Dunmurry except the site above. SHould I focus on Belfast or Lisburn?
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Here's the household of James Scott-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballygomartin/Suffolk/988967
The place is Suffolk (only cities and towns will have had street/road names), Ballygomartin is the D.E.D. (district electoral division)- see list of 1901 households here-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Ballygomartin/Suffolk
I've removed that image of the top of the page from your post as it was stretching the screen but here's a link to it- The headings at the top of the page are fairly straight-forward (Lisburn is the constabulary district and Dunmurray is the sub-district)-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000357995
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The place is Suffolk (only cities and towns will have had street/road names),
The thing that I was confused by was that both "Suffolk", "Ballygomartin", "Shankill", and "Dunmurry" are all seperate places today.
Clearly in the past, some were subsets of others, while some overlapped because they were denoting a different type of historical regions.
Just trying to track down the physical location. ie Where exactly was Suffolk?
(sorry about the long image. Here is a smaller version)
(http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/data/500/scott1901a.jpg)
I also have the 1888 marriage certificate, but its nearly impossible to read a location. It might say "Suffolk" as his location? Looks like the wife was from Lisburn?
(http://www.mcarterbrown.com/gallery/data/500/scottmarriagea.jpg)
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If you look at GoogleMaps (type in Suffolk, Belfast) it takes you to present Suffolk Rd. - you can see that the village of Dunmurray isn't far away.
Think you are getting confused since all the different catagories on the census form are also the names of places in the area (i.e. the city of Lisburn is not the same as the constabulary district of Lisburn, etc.)
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Hi,
This looks like the family in 1911
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__Anne_s_Ward/French_Park_Street/160698/
Regards
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Fortunetly, "French Park St" is much easier to locate on a map! ;)
Originally I got stuck because Frenchpark street, and the whole neighborhood did not exist before 1905. It was an empty field. Then from 1905-1915 they lived there, then moved to Boston.
Now I have them at Suffolk in 1901. "James Scott" should be real easy to find in the village directories online, but the only "James Scott" I can find is at:
Hillside Terrace, Ballysillian (Ligoniel) and Knockbraken.
Neither of which is anywhere near Dunmurry. Though the Ligoniel address is in Ballygomartin, so that might be it?
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James Scott's occupation was beetler and it may be that he won't be listed in any directories or that the family moved fairly often- don't forget the census only shows a location for the census date.
There are quite a few online directories for that period- sometimes better to search by both name and address to find a person.
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369534.0.html
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Finally figured out the exact location of Suffolk village.
I just discovered a fantastic website: http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=nameSearch
It has the entire 1862 Ireland ordanance map, overlayed onto a modern google map. It then has the entire Griffiths Valuation database entered, and linked to the map. Only takes seconds to find the exactly location of ancestors, then you can view it from a satelite and see how it has changed.
Moderator's Note: copyright image removed. Please see here:
www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=placeSearch
Still can not find him on the directories, but the Griffiths Valuation has a James Scott in nearby Malone Upper.
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My GGgrandfather has been a dead end.
I have a fair number of records for him, but have not been able to track down any parents beyond the name "JAMES".
On the 1911 Census: (135 French Park st, Belfast)
James Scott, Church of Ireland, Age 59, Beetler, married 22 years, born c antrim
(Married to Margaret Lown, Age 48)
On the 1901 Census: (Suffolk townland)
James Scott, Church of England, Age 51, Beetler, born c antrim
(Married to Margaret Lown, Age 39)
Marriage Certificate: (Married 5/5/1888 at Lisburn Cathedral)
James Scott, Church of Ireland, Engineman, Englishtown, Age 35, Widower,
Father: James Scott (Bleacher)
Margaret Lown, Church of Ireland, ,Low Road, Age 28, Spinster
Father: Edward Lown (Gardener)
I have the name "James Scott" (senior), but it is a very common name. I have not been able to locate a birth certificate for "James Scott" (junior). There is a discepency in the ages above, but appears to have been born between 1851 and 1853.
Neither Ancestryireland, rootsireland, familysearch, or ancestry.com have anything listed for the "James Scott" born 51-53 in Antrim, Father James Scott.
Emerald Ancestors does have a close match, but that "James Scott" is Roman Catholic. Mine is Church of Ireland.
Clearly it must exist, and its probobly what I need to find in order to start tracking down "James Scott" (senior).
Speaking of religion. I noticed that on the 1901 census, he lists "Church of England" instead of "Church of Ireland". Does that mean his father came from Scotland? or England?
Thanks, Nicholas Scott
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Hi,
Unfortunately there will be no birth certificate as civil registration of births did not start until 1864. Before that you need to depend on church records. The census forms should list Country of Birth of outside Irelane or County if in Ireland.
Regards
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I think I might try an alternate approach.
He is listed as "widower" when he married in 1888 at age 35.
So his previous marriage must have occurred between 1870 and 1887
Both AncestryIreland and RootsIreland show about 10 marriage records within that timeframe for "James Scott" born in Antrim, with a father "James Scott".
I'll probobly get those records, then hopefully only one will fall within the age range. However, it might not actually add any few information other then the previous wifes name, but still interesting.
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Irish marriage certificates usually do not list age of bride or groom unless, sometimes, if underage. Not sure if either AncestryIreland and RootsIreland will even show if 'full age.' Also, marriage records do not show place of birth.
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I picked up the 10 records- Surprisingly, most had the age listed.
Out of the 10 records, 9 either had the wrong age, or wrong religion.
The last one left showed "Dunmurry" as the address.
With a population as small as Dunmurry, odds are they only had the one "James Scott". Not much else is gained, other then I know where he lived in 1874, as well as the name of a previous wife, that died.
Now I can look for her death certificate. That might have some new info:
"Isabella Dickson" of Bovolgan.
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Wonder if this helps-
Alice Scott born 1 Aug.1879 Englishtown, Co.Antrim, parents- James Scott & Isabella Dickson (International Genealogical Index)
William Scott born 28 Oct.1883 Englistown Northern Ireland, died 4 Oct.1963 Windsor, Ontario, married Mary Agnes Armstrong. Parents- James Scott & Isabella Dickson (Pedigree Resource File)
See www.familysearch.org
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I had a hard time getting the same results.
Ever since familysearch revised its entire website, and its search system, Its been a challenge.
But working backwards, I see the "Alice Scott" record.
I also see a "George Scott", 02 May 1877, Suffolk, Antrim, Ireland
parents: James Scott, Isabella Scott Dickson
I believe Englishtown is part of Suffolk? or the other way around? On a map they look like street corners part of Dunmurry.
Thanks a bunch!
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My great grandmother was called Mary Frances Scott and she was from Dunmurray. She married my great grandfather called William Evans in Derriaghy Church of Ireland in 11 June 1914. My great grandmother had a sister called Sarah. My great grandparents moved to Belfast and lived in Cosgrove Street. My great grandmother died in 1937. Most of my great grandfather's people were of the farming community. :) :)
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It might be the same Scott family.
I see a bunch in the area, including
Black Mountain (1)
Suffolk (1)
Dunmurry town (2)
Dunmurry village (2)
Malone, Upper (1)
Lots of similar first names which would imply that had related family groups, following the naming patters of the time. But then maybe not.