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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ayashi on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:02 GMT (UK)

Title: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:02 GMT (UK)
I recently obtained my g-g-grandfather's death certificate, but he's got a cause of death that even after googling I'm still none the wiser... It seems the first one especially can't be explained without more medical terminology...

He died aged 74 (in 1927) of
1) Senile Endarteritis Obliterans
2) Pseudo Bulbar Paralysis

It also says that there wasn't a PM, so how would they have known what he died of?

I was hoping that someone could explain in Language for Idiots what my rellie actually died of lol

Thanks :)
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: FosseWay on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:15 GMT (UK)
How clear is the handwriting? 'Endarteritis' looks as though it might be garbled. If you do a Google search on 'obliterans' only, it comes up with various terms in front of it, though I can't make any of them look like 'endarteritis' in handwriting.

For the bulbar paralysis, see here (http://www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/thomas/paralysis-bulb.html), for example. I can't explain 'pseudo' -- again, is this in clear handwriting, or could it be something else?
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:17 GMT (UK)
Just doing a bit of googling ...  :)

Senile endarteritis is artheriosclerosis (not sure about ththat last word ... )
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: maidmarianoops on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:19 GMT (UK)
hello i have been checking on google images,and i think we are better off not knowing

yuk


sylvia
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:20 GMT (UK)
endarteritis ob·lit·er·ans

endarteritis in which the intimal tissue proliferates and ultimately plugs the lumen of an affected artery -- called also obliterating endarteritis

I imagine the "senile" bit was because he was elderly and the condition was due to his old age?
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:20 GMT (UK)
hello i have been checking on google images,and i think we are better off not knowing

yuk


sylvia

You must never google image medical conditions.  ;D
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:22 GMT (UK)
Thanks :) Now I'll have to google "intimal" and "lumen" lol

Edit-
"Intimal" = inside lining of the vein/artery
"Lumen" = the inside space of the vein/artery

Sounds nice, doesn't it?  :-\ Not sure how they would have known it had done that unless it was an ongoing thing diagnosed some time before, poor chap.

I found pseudobulbar (one word) paralysis relating to the mouth and tongue?
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: maidmarianoops on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:28 GMT (UK)
i agree



sylvia
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: maidmarianoops on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:36 GMT (UK)
NameWalter C Hillier
Death 1927
Age 78
Reg Easthampstead
Berkshire
Volume 2c
Page 505


is this the same man

i had a walter hillier in my extended family

sylvia
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 05 January 11 13:47 GMT (UK)
Sorry, no, this is my William BRADY in Northumberland :)
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: LizzieW on Wednesday 05 January 11 14:05 GMT (UK)
Senile Endarteritis Obliterans - if that could be artherosclerosis, it is what laymen used to call hardening of the arteries.

For bulbar paralysis, go to www.henriettesherbal.com/eclectic/thomas/paralysis-bulb.html.  It does state near to the bottom of the page

Quote
Diagnosis.—This is generally quite easy, the above symptoms being so striking and characteristic that no one need make a mistake in the diagnosis

which might explain why a PM wasn't required.
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 05 January 11 14:07 GMT (UK)
Thank you :)

I was more thinking about the first cause of death in relation to the Post Mortem :)
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: LizzieW on Wednesday 05 January 11 14:15 GMT (UK)
My uncle died late 1950s or thereabouts   oops it was June 1970, from artheroclerosis, but there wasn't a PM for him.  I think to a doctor the symptoms are pretty obvious, so a PM wouldn't have been required.

Quote
Symptoms

A blockage in the arteries can occur anywhere in the body although the most common site is the arteries of the legs, either high in their course in the pelvis, or further down in the calf. Once blockage becomes severe, exertion of the muscles which receive blood supply from the affected artery causes pain due to insufficient blood. This is known as intermittent claudication and often causes an aching pain in the muscle which is relieved by rest and worsened by resumed physical activity. If pain is present even at rest, the problem is serious and unless treated, could necessitate amputation of the limb.

In the advanced stages, the limb becomes cold, pale, discoloured, and sores form on the skin from gangrene to the area involved. Infection may set in, and ultimately the leg must be amputated to save the life of the patient./quote]

Lizzie
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Wednesday 05 January 11 14:24 GMT (UK)
I feel awful for this poor chap :(

<-- He seems like one of those neat, strong, in control kind of man and I can imagine what an amazing indignity it must have been for him to be reduced to someone who can't move, speak and who might well have been drooling at the end. At least his family was there with him, there are many who are alone in these times. Life can be a terrible thing.
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Jeuel on Wednesday 05 January 11 17:37 GMT (UK)
My great-grandmother died of arteritis obliterans and gangrene.  My Dad remembered the smell when he visited her in hospital, he was only 7. 

A horrible end, but she did live to be 83.  All my other gt grandmothers were dead before 40!
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ruskie on Wednesday 05 January 11 23:42 GMT (UK)
With fairly obvious causes of death in an 'older' person I wouldn't expect them to do a Post Mortem. Surely it would only be if there was something unexplained or suspicicous or a person was young that this would be done. I wouldn't expect it to be routine.
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: dobfarm on Thursday 06 January 11 05:46 GMT (UK)
http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=xco9aJ_Y9XIC&pg=PA102&dq=Endarteritis+Obliterans&hl=en&ei=WVUlTdOSNIHKhAfrh_2AAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Endarteritis%20Obliterans&f=false

http://www.google.co.uk/search?tbs=bks%3A1&tbo=1&q=+Endarteritis+Obliterans+&btnG=Search+Books

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=eBisTLKIZbsC&pg=PA104&dq=Pseudobulbar+Paralysis&hl=en&ei=kFYlTf6ME8OHhQf7qICiAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=Pseudobulbar%20Paralysis&f=false
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Thursday 06 January 11 13:37 GMT (UK)
I had one death cert that says "probably old age" on it. "Hey, he was 94 years old, who cares what he died of, it was probably old age!" lol
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: LizzieW on Friday 07 January 11 15:35 GMT (UK)
Ayashi - I've got quite a few death certs which just state "Old Age".  Seems a good enough explanation to me.
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Friday 07 January 11 23:18 GMT (UK)
Yeah, so have I, it was just the "probably" bit that got me lol
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: dobfarm on Saturday 08 January 11 04:13 GMT (UK)
I've a few death certs with 'natural decay' on! for reason of death! but one was uncertified  ?
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 08 January 11 11:26 GMT (UK)
My elderly pocket medical dictionary from nursing days says:
Endarteritis is inflammation of the inner coat of an artery
Obliteration (for obliterans) complete closure of a lumen
Lumen is the space inside of a tube.
So his artery (whichever one) was clogged up inside, a frequent problem as we age.  These days the docs put you on low dose aspirin to thin the blood but in 1927 they wouldn't have known about this (don't think they even knew about aspirin!)
 Bulbar paralysis is symmetrical paralysis of the muscles of the tongue, throat, face, and sometimes of the larynx, due to degenerative changes in the motor nuclei of the medulla oblongata. But Pseudo bulbar paralysis has its own definition - symmetrical disease of both cerebral hemispheres....causes voluntary paralysis of swallowing, articulation, and chewing movements.
Sounds like he had a stroke
Dawn M.
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Saturday 08 January 11 14:32 GMT (UK)
Thanks, someone else said "stroke" which is a bit worrying since this would be the fourth stroke I've got in the first few generations from me.

Possibly the endarteritis affected the veins in his brain?

I know this bloke was the hardest to find in the family yet, gave me a lot of trouble, but I wouldn't have wished this on him even if I did threaten a few times to create a time machine in order to go back and punch him for being tricky  :P
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: dobfarm on Saturday 08 January 11 20:30 GMT (UK)
If he had a Gravestone -I would think it said!


 R. I. P. !             at the bottom.
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Billyblue on Saturday 08 January 11 22:57 GMT (UK)
Well Ayashi, strokes / heart disease / diabetes do tend to 'run' in families.

Both my parents died as result of what we call a 'stroke' - the general medical shorthand is CVA for cerebral vascular accident (not to be confused with MVA for motor vehicle accident  ;D)
This covers different kinds of vascular problems which affect the brain, and can be caused by either a blockage or a haemorrhage.
When my Dad started having mini-strokes or TIAs, my doc put me on low dose aspirin with the comment "With your family history I'm not taking chances"
Dawn M
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Ayashi on Sunday 09 January 11 15:25 GMT (UK)
My g-g-grandparents both had different types of stroke and their son, my g-grandfather had a different kind of stroke again on mum's dad's side. Mum is still alive and her father died in a car crash (MVA, ha ha) so we wouldn't have known what he would have died of otherwise. I've also got four cancers in the first few generations too, and a few bits of heart disease, although it might be hard to say how much could be attributed to things like smoking, which I've never done.

At least if it does run in families, these days we have better ways of coping with them.
Title: Re: Cause of death
Post by: Billyblue on Monday 10 January 11 00:15 GMT (UK)
I might add...
My mum was nearly 88 when she died, and my dad was 101!
People say I should live till I'm 90.  I've only got 20 years left  :'(
Dawn M