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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Billyblue on Wednesday 05 January 11 03:22 GMT (UK)
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How does one go about finding out details of a caveat on real property? Does anyone know?
We are told we can apply to NSW Lands Dept and they'll 'have a look' for $25.
Specifically we are looking at why a caveat was put on property at Taylor Street, Annandale (Sydney) from 1924 to 1936, and who requested it. Certificate of Title gives registered proprietors and joint tenants for that period as Roland Grant of Annandale Carter and Rose Bryant wife of Alfred Bryant
of Annandale Master Butcher (this pair - Roland and Rose - were siblings)
Dawn M
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Hello
Years ago when we were first married, it was a policy of the mining firm my husband worked for, to allow the employees to take out low interest loans. But the company put a caveat on the property till the loan was paid.
Also joint tenants sometimes caveat were put on to protect themselves ,one could not sell the property without the others knowledge or take out a loan against the property without the others permission.
So there was not a name of who placed the Caveat? Could it have been a bank or other lending institution?
Years later when we were selling the house we found the caveat was still on the house it had not been taken off when the loan had been repaid. You can imagine we were not happy. Luckily the company was still around and it was sorted out. >:(
Looking at the costs of getting things from WA lands department. $25 is cheap does that cover a photo copy because my fried was told she had to pay $75 for a photocopy of her own title here in WA.
Regards Pam
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Hi
There is no name on the C/T as to who put the caveat on. We are still waiting for the relevant dept. to send my cousin the necessary form for her to send in (she's in the country of NSW) to see if we can find out. If they don't find the details on their first search, she said, they quoted $100 for the next look!!
I never thought of one joint tenant putting a caveat on to stop the other selling or mortgaging - thought with joint tenants both had to agree, as distinct from tenants in common where one could sell his/her share to someone else. Puts a new slant on things!
Thanks
Dawn M
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Hi,
It was quite common for executors of estates or the Public Trustee to put a caveat on the property of a deceased person while the estate was being sorted out. This was especially so in the case of disputes over the estate or for missing beneficiaries. It was usually only a temporary measure to stop any illegal dealings with the property of a deceased person and the caveats were usually lifted by whomever put them on once the estate was finalised. I have read quite a few caveat documents and they don't usually contain much information to advance family history. Having said that there is always the odd one that does ;D ;D ;D
Was there a death or divorce in the family at the time of the caveat?
Andcarred
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Thanks Ancarred
The property was transferred to the first person on the C/T in 1884; it was part of land originally granted to Capt. George Johnston of First Flee. The transferee died 1893. His widow remarried 1909. In 1913 title was transferred to her and a few months later from her to one Thomas Roland Grant. T.R.Grant died 1924 [date unknown, NSW reg # 6844/1924] land the property was transferred to his daughter Rose and one of his sons (Roland) as joint tenants in November 1924. On the same day a caveat was placed on the property (this caveat is the particular one we are trying to get details on).
In April 1936 the property was transferred to Rose's three adult children as joint tenants (two daughters and one son); in June 1936 the caveat was removed. In 1938 the son in this threesome died but it was not till 1961, after their mother had died, that the two surviving daughters were registered as 'surviving joint tenants'. A week later it was registered with the name of just one of these women.
So, the deaths of people concerned were in 1893, 1924, 1938 and 1961; the caveat was from 1924 to 1936.
The only thing that stands out from this is that the caveat appeared soon after T.R.Grant died, and I think maybe there was something in his Will. But would a Will have been acted upon so quickly, in those days?
Tied in with all this is a foster child who is my cousin's mother (now dead) who was adopted by Rose when she turned 15 and the caveat was lifted! We are trying to find out whether the two events are connected or just coincidental. My cousin and her mother have been trying to find out about this, including who was the child's mother, for about 20 years. She advertised in a Sydney paper a few months ago and my brother picked it up because of an unusual christian name and an address where my father's family used to live.
I don't need to read mystery novels - I have enough of them in my FH ;)
Dawn
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Hello, I am Roland Grant's great grandson and I might be able to shed some light, but also make things more confusing at the same time..
Roland like many of the Grants loved horses but rather than training or racing them he bet all his money on them, and consistently lost all his money..
Thomas Roland Grant gave a house to each of his sons, my grandmother (Roland's daughter of course) told me Thomas didn't want to give a house to Roland fearing he would gamble it away. But he did, Roland got a house on Gibbens st in Camperdown. Roland never sold it, even when he moved out and went off with another woman, Roland was a particularly selfish man sadly so it's odd he didn't sell it, chances are there was a caveat put on the house by Thomas Roland Grant preventing him from doing so.
So what's with the Taylor St house? Maybe in them days Thomas didn't trust a woman with the house so he tacked on Roland along with a caveat preventing the gambler from selling it, but why he tacked on the family gambler and not one of the other brothers I don't know.
The other strange bit of info is that Roland's wife was born and raised at 76 Taylor st Annandale.
It is a mystery!
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Oh one more thing. My father is going to ring Roland's eldest daughter and see what she knows. Quite possibly the last person alive who might know something!
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Hi Paul
It sure is a mystery! But from what you say it would appear that the caveat was put on, to stop Roland gambling away and trying to sell his half or mortgaging it without consulting his sister.
So glad you have seen this post.
I've PM'd you with contact details.
My cousins will be surprised that you've found us!
Cheers
Dawn M
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BTW, my cousin hasn't had much joy from the Lands Dept.
She said all they told her about the caveat was the information she sent them!
She's waiting for an update.
Dawn M