RootsChat.Com

England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Worcestershire => Topic started by: wolves on Friday 31 December 10 11:56 GMT (UK)

Title: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Friday 31 December 10 11:56 GMT (UK)
Hi, i don't know if anyone can help but i want to look at Parish records and i want to know which is the best website to obtain information?
Regards Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: philheeks on Friday 31 December 10 14:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

Dont think that Im being sarcastic but the best place to look at parish registers is in a record office.  If you want to try it on the net you can look at Family Search, Free BMD, Free Reg, Ancestry at your local library as they may well have a subscription to it. there are stacks of web sites for diferent parts of the country but they all need checking as they can have some mistakes on them - this is why I said the best place is a record office

All the very best

Phil
Weston-super-Mare

Happy New Year to you
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Yegvard on Friday 31 December 10 15:02 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul,

I agree with Phil.  One or two commercial websites do provide images of the register pages, which is what you are after.  However, some only provide images for a particular time frame.  So you need to be on your toes about what you pay for.  Often you are browsing, rather than chasing a specific record.  Doing that, on pay-per-view, will be extremely expensive.  Many families use  only a limited set of first names, making research very difficult.

There are other problems.  How do you know if your family were, at some point, non-conformists?  I have a family, same parents, who used both the Methodist Church and the C of E church for baptisms.  The county record office will be able to tell you if a town had more than one place of worship.  It is not uncommon to find text that shouldn't be there and so does not appear in search engines.  For example some curates/vicars wrote exact dates of birth in to Baptism records.  The social state of some parishioners may also be enlightening!

There are a host of other reasons in favour of the record office and only one against.  That is an inability to travel there from the other side of the world.  There are a few ways to partially solve that.  Be very thorough with your approach to pre-research.  Use GENUKI, societies, sites like this one to ascertain exactly what records you are looking for and what else may be available and what is not.  The Church of Latter Day Saints will import, for a small fee, films they have taken of the registers.  CDs and on-line images may be available.

But to research items that are in the Parish Chest, and other documents that are not commercially available you either need a very good friend, or a relative with an interest to go and look for you.  Some societies, e.g. BMSGH provide a link scheme for members, but you do need to be very specific.  Otherwise it's hiring a private researcher.

Which Parish records were you after, and what time frame?

Regards

Mike

Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Ruskie on Friday 31 December 10 15:11 GMT (UK)
Just to add to Mike's useful information ... you can request lookups from local Rootschatters. Many of them frequent record offices.  ;)

You can also give names, dates etc of the people you are searching for and request help here. Many folks have CD's, transcripts etc which may contain the information you require.
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Friday 31 December 10 15:38 GMT (UK)
Thank's guys, i was looking for information on Richard Harrington b. abt 1786.
On the 1841 census he is living in Kidderminster age 55, with his wife Fraurag age 40, children Sarah 15, Elisabeth 15, Charles 12.
Basically i'm looking for the marriage of Richard and Fraulag and Fraulag's maiden name. also if possible Richards Parents.
Thank's for the help and advice.
 Regards Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Yegvard on Friday 31 December 10 18:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul,

Re: 1841:

I don't know if you are aware, but all over 15 years had their ages rounded down to a multiple of 5.  So Richard could be 59, 58, 57, 56, or 55.  Same applies to his wife and Sarah and Elisab (sic).

They were all born in Worcestershire.

I can't find a death for anything that looks like "Fraurag", on FreeBMD.  There is no "l" character in the middle of the name.  Looking at other census pages I'm tempted to say that the last letter of his wife's name was neither a "g" or a "y" when compared to writing on other pages.

Add that to the results from the new LDS FamilySearch site and there was a Charles HARRINGTON baptised 27th March 1829 in Kidderminster to a Richard and Sarah HARRINGTON.  Changing dates there, you will find other HARRINGTON children there too.  There also appears to be an 1818 baptism with a variant name of Elizabeth, making her approximately 20 in the 1841.  Perhaps she died or got married.

Malvern FHS have done the county baptism index, so you could try that for confirmation.  I've never used their service.

The LDS site doesn't seem to have the marriage, which just might be a second one for Richard, looking at his age.

The is a county Marriage Index, prepared by BMSGH.  The ONLY public access to the volumes is at Worcester Record Office.  There is an Internet enquiry service available http://bmsgh.org/search/Wo_marr_index.html  BMSGH members get a discount.  BMSGH (http://bmsgh.org/) members may visit their library in Birmingham on selected days.

Happy New Year

Mike
Branch Chairman Bromsgrove BMSGH
http://www.bromsgrovebmsgh.co.uk/
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Friday 31 December 10 21:28 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike, i did not know about rounding down the age, thats why i probably have had problems in the past finding ancestors.
Cheers Paul
Happy new year to all :)
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Friday 31 December 10 21:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike just looking back at some of my Records, found that Richard's wife is Frances b.1801, so bit confused with Fraurag from the 1841 census unless the writing on the census page is difficult to read?
cheers Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: jim1212 on Friday 31 December 10 22:02 GMT (UK)
I see from the 1841 census Richard was a Weaver, a lot of weavers left Kidderminster in the late 1840's for work elsewhere.
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 01 January 11 01:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Mike just looking back at some of my Records, found that Richard's wife is Frances b.1801, so bit confused with Fraurag from the 1841 census unless the writing on the census page is difficult to read?
cheers Paul

Writing is indistinct but does look like Frances with an elongated 's'.  :)
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Ruskie on Saturday 01 January 11 01:39 GMT (UK)
Add that to the results from the new LDS FamilySearch site and there was a Charles HARRINGTON baptised 27th March 1829 in Kidderminster to a Richard and Sarah HARRINGTON.  Changing dates there, you will find other HARRINGTON children there too.  There also appears to be an 1818 baptism with a variant name of Elizabeth, making her approximately 20 in the 1841.  Perhaps she died or got married.


There is also an 1824 Kidderminster baptism of a Sarah with parents Richard and Sarah ...  :-\ This is fairly close to the 15 year old Sarah in the 1841 census. Of course this may be a different Richard (cousin perhaps) who married Sarah hence the similarity of children's names and ages?  :-\
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Saturday 01 January 11 21:47 GMT (UK)
Hi, its such a simularity that the 1841 census shows:-
Richard    b.1786
Frances   b.1801
Sarah      b.1826
Elisabeth b.1826
Charles   b.1829

and the Latter day saints births and christenings shows:-
Richard    father
Sarah      mother
Sarah      b.1824
Elisabeth b.1826
Charles   b.1829

i'm confused are these 2 seperate families or the same ???
help Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: jim1212 on Saturday 01 January 11 22:29 GMT (UK)
Looks like the same family to me, perhaps he married Frances later.
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Ruskie on Sunday 02 January 11 00:16 GMT (UK)
Have any or all of them been located in the 1851 census?  :-\ Did they have more children after Charles?

Looks like the same family to me, perhaps he married Frances later.
Yes, there is a fair age gap between Richard and Frances ...

It all leads back to Paul's original question of wanting to find their marriage ... (or the one between Richard and Sarah ... )
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: jim1212 on Sunday 02 January 11 09:39 GMT (UK)
Marriages Sep 1840.
Bagley    James.        Kidderminster.    18.   379.   
CHALK    Eliza.         Kidderminster.    18.   379.    
HARRINGTON    Richard.         Kidderminster.    18   379.    
THOMPSON    Frances.         Kidderminster.    18   379.    
WHITE    Margaret   .      Kidderminster.    18.   379.    
WHITTALL    Samuel.         Kidderminster.    18.   379.
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: jim1212 on Sunday 02 January 11 09:42 GMT (UK)
Deaths Mar 1840.
HARRINGTON    Sarah.        Kidderminster.    18.   304.

Sarah Harrington.
Burial Date:    08 Mar 1840.
Burial Place:    Kidderminster, Worcester.
Age:    53.
Birth Date:    1787.
Indexing Project (Batch) Number:    B02906-3.
System Origin:    England-EASy.
Source Film Number:    367790.
Reference Number:    v 62.
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: jim1212 on Sunday 02 January 11 10:47 GMT (UK)
1861. Worcester St, Kidderminster.

Richard Harrington    72. Widow. Former painter and glazier. born Abbots Wood, Worcestershire.
   
Abbots Wood is by Kempsey in Worcestershire.
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: jim1212 on Sunday 02 January 11 10:54 GMT (UK)
A lot of people from Kidderminster married at Oldswinford, so a possible.

Extracted.
RICHARD HARRINGTON.
SARAH FOXALL.
Marriage, 22 OCT 1809. Old Swinford, Worcester.
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Sunday 02 January 11 18:05 GMT (UK)
Thank's that solves my question.
Thank's for your time and effort for helping me, you guys are Brilliant.
Happy new year
Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: philheeks on Thursday 06 January 11 10:37 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

Tell you what, as Im on Christmas/New Year holiday in the county of my birth, I will have a look at the Kidderminster registers the next time that I go to Worcester History Centre (11 JAN) to see if I can find the baptisms for the family members & if I get the time will also search for the marriage details

All the very best

Phil

Happy New Year to you
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Thursday 06 January 11 17:06 GMT (UK)
Hi Phil, thats very kind of you, i really appreciate that, but if you don't have time don't worry.
Best wishes Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: philheeks on Friday 14 January 11 10:12 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

This may not be exactly what you want (as I cant find Richard & Francis as parents) -
Kiddermnister St Mary's
14 JUN 1826 Eliza d/o Richard/Sarah Harrington (weaver) Worcester Street
7 JUN 1824 Sarah d/o       "        "          "               "               "             "
I was unable to find a BAP entry for Charles in this parish or St George 1826 - 1831

Also searched St mary's (I think I alsio did St George but dont have my notes books with me) 1780 - 1792 but couldnt find his BAP in Kidderminster.

In the marriage index books at Worcester History Centre there are 2 entries (in the volume I looked at) for Harrington MARs in WOR but neither would be any good for Richard as he would be a child when they both took place.

Sorry but thats the best that I could do in the time I had & beleive it or not this look up took over 2 hours to do with nothing much to show for it.

I hope that this helps you a bit

All the very best

Phil

ps there are other entries in Kidder for Harrington's but none of them are for a Richard - I have a few early BURs  but didnt send them as they may not fit in as yet
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Saturday 15 January 11 18:26 GMT (UK)
Hi Phil.
Thank's for the information.
I can believe it took 2 hours as when i have been searching the time just flies.
cheers.
Best wishes Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: philheeks on Thursday 20 January 11 10:17 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul

Glad that you know the feeling as well, the sickening part is that you nearly always find something that you would like to follow up when your research time is as good as up & you have to get ready go & catch the bus

All the very best

Phil
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: patriciap on Thursday 03 March 11 12:16 GMT (UK)
hi I'm new to this site so you'll have to bear with me as I don't know what information has come to light before BUT I can't see anything regarding Richard Harrington and Frances' Marriage Certificate which I have a copy of.  They were married at the Ebenezer Meeting House in Kidderminster on 24th July, 1840. Richard was a widower and Frances Thompson nee Maddocks a widow. His father was William Harrington, a butcher by trade and hers was John Maddocks, also a butcher.
Regarding the 1841 census. I think that the three children, John, William and Elizabeth, have a surname of Thompson and not Thorson as it looks on the census. The other three children, Sarah, Elizabeth and Charles are obviously Harringtons. I would imagine the mother is Sarah Foxall as mentioned on the forum.

regards Pat
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Thursday 03 March 11 21:15 GMT (UK)
Thank's Pat, i have sussed the the family out now.
Best wishes Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: patriciap on Saturday 05 March 11 04:52 GMT (UK)
Hi Paul, I think I've spoken to you before, but it's been a few years ago now. I would think that Richard and Sarah must have had more children who had left home before the 1841 census, do you know anything about them? There is a William, born 1811(named after Richard's father????)
on the 1841 census in Kidderminster.
regards
Pat
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Saturday 05 March 11 19:39 GMT (UK)
Hi Pat, the siblings i have of Richard Harrington and Sarah Foxall, Frances Thompson-2nd wife(children are down as thorson on 1841 census)  are Charles b.1830 Kidderminster, Sarah b. abt 1826, Elisabeth b. abt 1826.
cheers Paul
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: patriciap on Saturday 05 March 11 21:11 GMT (UK)
hi paul, I've found a tree  with five more children on.  William Harrington born in 1810 (this matches the one on an 1841 census), Elizabeth born in 1810, Phebe Ann born in 1816, Elizabeth born in 1818 and Mary Anne born in 1820. I'm not sure how they found these extra children because there's nothing to say where the information came from. There are baptism dates so perhaps they went out and found them on church records.  I do think it's probably right because Richard and Sarah were married in 1809 and Richards father was named William.
Pat
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Yegvard on Saturday 05 March 11 21:22 GMT (UK)
Hi Pat,

Can you give some more details on your MUGATROYD's please?

Mike
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: wolves on Sunday 06 March 11 15:56 GMT (UK)
Hi Pat, i have found the children of Richard and Sarah Harrington on the parish records all named harrington except as follows:-

Phebe Ann Harengton
Gender: Female
Baptism/Christening Date: 31 Jan 1816
Baptism/Christening Place: Parish of Kidderminster, Worcester Co., England

Father's Name: Richard Harengton
   
Mother's Name: Sarah Harengton
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: patriciap on Monday 07 March 11 14:22 GMT (UK)
hi Mike, the oldest murgatroyd I have is Robert born in 1793 in Forton, Lancashire. He's followed by Amos born 1830 in Wyresdale, Thomas born 1856 in Croston. My Gran Rose Murgatroyd was born in Ludlow, Shropshire. If you think it's the same Murgatroyds that you are interested in let me know, I do have more information than is here.
regards
Pat
Title: Re: Parish records
Post by: Yegvard on Monday 07 March 11 14:35 GMT (UK)
Hi Pat,

Sorry to say Henry MURGATROYD,  born 1851 Bradford, was fresh into Southport, from Bradford, being the son of William, 1830,  a Stone Mason.

Thanks anyway

Mike