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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => London and Middlesex => England => London & Middlesex Lookup Requests => Topic started by: astral14 on Wednesday 29 December 10 21:20 GMT (UK)
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If so, I would love to know who was living at 30 Rutland Street, Mile End in 1861, please.
Thanks :)
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I have done a search on Rutland Street but it gives choices of Shoreditch or St Pancras :-\
I think Mile End came under Stepney
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Thanks - I would be looking for a Susan C and children - Walter, Edmond and maybe, Joel...
Don't know the surname...her maiden name was Smith but she is probably not using this!
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The vargaries of Search Parameters. Just put the exact same search details in and Mile End came up ::)
But none of those names there. If you give some dates of births if you have any I can see what I can find.
Have just quickly tried Walter in Mile End but only one Walter came up and wasn't with any of the other names mentioned.
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Walter 1858 Middlesex
Edmond 1858 Bow, Middlesex
Joel 1861 Mile End
Susan C 1823 (varies a bit though) -Saffron Walden
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Sorry!! there isn't anything coming up with all of them :-\
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:( Thanks, though
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Just out of interest where have you got them altogether.
There is a possibility that Joel was born after the census.
I have found a possible with just Susan and Walter no sign of Edmund :-\
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Just out of interest where have you got them altogether.
There is a possibility that Joel was born after the census.
I have found a possible with just Susan and Walter no sign of Edmund :-\
They appear with the surname Crocker in the 1871 Census (RG10; Piece: 554; Folio: 152; Page: 30).
Nigel
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Hi, Rutland Street Mile End is listed as missing on the 1861 census street index.
Jennifer
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It came up just the once when I searched and saw two families at no 30 but it isn't coming up again :-\
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Just out of interest where have you got them altogether.
There is a possibility that Joel was born after the census.
I have found a possible with just Susan and Walter no sign of Edmund :-\
Where are they, please?
Sorry - I did a long post thanking everyone and it has disappeared. The Crockers appear on 'My elusive Crockers' thread and they do indeed appear in 1871 with the father, Samuel C Crocker, who never appears again. My gggrandfather was Maurice Crocker but there is no birth record or other data. Samuel has no other data and irritatingly, Maurice lists his father on his marriage certificate, which arrived today, as Edward Crocker. The 1871 census is the only one in which Samuel appears - he was a chronometer/ watchmaker - as was William Henry Crocker who only disappears in the 1871 census. He also seems to have married Susan's neice! (Susan was Susan Caroline Smith b abt 1823 Saffron Walden. Her sister, Mary Smith married Joshua Cornell/ Carnall and I think it was their daughter, Sarah, who married William Henry Crocker, who was a lot older.
My thought, with the help of kind Rootchatters is that Susan was never married and that the children assumed the name of Crocker but would have been listed as something else in 1861. In 1851 Susan is an unmarried servant but I do not know who she was working fro. Maybe she used their name!...
Any thoughts?
Thanks again :)
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There is an earlier thread regarding Samuel Crocker:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,478875.0.html
Nigel
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1861
morrison family
deady family
living at
30 rutland st
haggerston west shoreditch
do these names ring bells
sylvia
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Hi
Rutland Street Mile End Old Town as Jennifer says is missing from the 1861 census as are lots of other streets and whole areas in London - the census returns for these streets/areas are lost.
http://yourarchives.nationalarchives.gov.uk/index.php?title=Place:Mile_End_Old_Town_Registration_District,_1861_Census_Street_Index_P-R
Regards
Valda
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Thanks, Maidmarianoops - unfortunately, no, they don't ring bells!
Thanks for all of this. I suppose if the census details are lost, they could have been there, even under the name of Crocker but the details do not remain!
Many thanks to all, tough :)
have a great New Year! ;D
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Sorry - 'tough', should read 'though'!!!
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Sometimes you need a bit of clarity....especially for slow people like me!
You are looking for this lot in any form prior to 1871 is that correct?
1881 census
7, Caves Terrace, Hammersmith, Fulham, Middlesex
Susan C Crocker...Wife...55..Chronometer Makers Wife....Saffron Walden, Essex
Walter J......".........Son...23.Comedian Unemployed Stepney, Middx
Edmond......".........Son...21...Draughtsman (Litho) Unemployed Mile End, Middlesex
Marie.........."........Daur...18...Chronometer Makers Daur...Mile End, Middlesex
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1871 census
Rutland St, Stepney, Mile End Old Town, Stepney, London, Middlesex
Samul C Crocker.....Head....60....watchmaker..................Mitford, Herts
Susan C........."........Wife....48.........................................Saffron Walden, Essex
Walter............"........Son.....16..electric telegraph student...Mile End, Middlesex
Edmund.........."........Son.....13.............................................Mile End, Middlesex Mary..............."........Daur....11.............................................Mile End, Middlesex Joel................".........Son.....10..............................................Mile End, Middlesex Morris.............".........Son......8...............................................Mile End, Middlesex
Mary Cornell....Wife's Sister..45.wid..................................Saffron Walden, Essex
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1851 census
Wills Alley, Saffron Walden, Essex
William Cornell........Head....22...........Ag Labr.....................Ashdon, Essex
Mary Ann...."...........Wife.....25............................................Ashdon, Essex
John Smith..............Son.......5..............................................Ashdon, Essex
Josiah Cornell...........Son.....2..............................................Ashdon, Essex
Alfred Cornell............Son.....1 week.....................................Walden, Essex
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Bryant
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Thanks for that. I am really looking for the family in 1861 as they 'disappear' but it seems that they were using that really useful name 'Smith'!!
Thanks :)
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Let me play 8)
It doesn't look like Susan Caroline/Caroline Susan Smith ever married anyone, least not using a combination of Susan Caroline.....so if she did marry she probably just used Susan Smith?
1891 census
16 Brooklyn Road, Hammersmith, Fulham, London
Susan Caroline Crocker......Head...66 Widow.........Saffron Walden, Essex
Edmond................."............Son.....30 Lithographic Artist...Stepney, London
Mary......................"............Daur....25................................Stepney, London
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Bryant
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No, I don't think she did! Some other kinds Rootschatter has found birth registrations for Walter Crocker Smith, Edmond Crocker Smith and Mary Crocker Smith in the right places and times!
What I would be interested in is the family that she worked for in 1851 to see if there is a link to ?? Crocker the watchmaker/ jeweller...
1851
HO107 1505 50 11
Susan C Smith unm servant bn Saffron Walden
in a house in Hackney
Would it be possible to see that for me, please?
The only place she is missing is in 1861 and some of the Mile End census records are missing for that year! Meh :(
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No, I don't think she did! Some other kinds Rootschatter has found birth registrations for Walter Crocker Smith, Edmond Crocker Smith and Mary Crocker Smith in the right places and times!
Have you ordered any of these birth certificates to see who, if anyone, is named as the father?
Have you looked at any street / trade directories for the 1860s as an alternative to the 1861 Census (they won't locate children but you find an address for a relevant Crocker, watchmaker)?
Do you know whether there was a Samuel Crocker baptised in Hampshire around 1811?
Nigel
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Not yet - I only found out a few hours ago! However, yes - they will be next on the list - I thought I would try Walter first and then Edmond or try to do both together...
Could you look Susan up for me in 1851, please if poss so I can see the family she is a servant for? I would be grateful - details are in the previous message.
Thanks again.
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1851 Census
HO107; Piece: 1505; Folio: 50; Page: 11
5 Church Street, Hackney
Philip R Steer Head Mar 37 Chemist & Druggist Devon, Devonport
Catharine C Steer Wife Mar 37 Middx, London
Philip W Steer Son 9 Scholar Middx, Marylebone
Catharine M Steer Dau 7 Scholar @ home Surrey, Newington
Thomas R Steer Son 6 Scholar @ home Middx, Marylebone
Walter F Steer Son 4 Scholar @ home Middx, Marylebone
Annie Steer Dau 3 Middx, Hackney
Margaret B Steer Dau 1 Middx, Hackney
Susan C Smith Serv 26 House servant Essex, Saffron Walden
Nigel
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Thanks, Nigel :)
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Samuel Crocker appears to have been born Milford, Hampshire :-[ if my translation is correct (1871 census) if that is correct he should be findable....and if I had a pound for everytime I said that!
;D
Bryant
Walter Crocker Smith born Sep qtr 1855 Stepney R.D
Edmund Crocker Smith born Sep qtr 1857 Stepney R.D
Mary Crocker Smith born Dec qtr 1859 Mile End R.D
John Crocker Smith born Mar qtr 1867 Lymington R.D (Hants)...Milford is within that R.D
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Yes, except I don't think Samuel Crocker actually existed - I think he was an alias for William Henry Crocker.
I think the place is actually Milford (on Sea), Hampshire (Hants) - which is where William Henry was also born! WH was also a chronometer/ watchmaker/ jeweller with a string of shops. He also appears to have had a string of women, lol!
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Samuel Crocker appears to have been born Mitford, Herts if my translation is correct and not Hants (1871 census) if that is correct he should be findable....and if I had a pound for everytime I said that!
;D
It looks more like Milford, Hants to me. If you look at earlier censuses you will find a number of Crockers from Milford and Millbrook, Hampshire (not from Mitford, Herts).
Nigel
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I changed it on finding John's birth but I wasn't quick enough by the look of it >:( see reply 25
Bryant
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Yes, except I don't think Samuel Crocker actually existed - I think he was an alias for William Henry Crocker.
I think the place is actually Milford (on Sea), Hampshire (Hants) - which is where William Henry was also born! WH was also a chronometer/ watchmaker/ jeweller with a string of shops. He also appears to have had a string of women, lol!
I agree that this is a possible scenario and which is why I enquired in my earlier post as to whether you had looked for a baptism of a Samuel Crocker around 1811 in Hampshire (eg looked at the parish registers for Milford at the Hampshire R.O.). If there is no baptism then it helps to support the theory.
Nigel
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Worth investigating?
William Crocker Smith born June qtr 1861 Yeovil R.D
Bryant
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Maybe but I think they are quite far away - Crocker is a (fairlyish) well-known West Country name and there are some Crocker Smiths born in wedlock to Crocker Smith parents in that area. It is food for thought though - thanks.
Nigel - yes - that would be a good idea. It may have to wait a while though as I am carless at the moment! I shall have a look at the certificates first. My grandfather's family history sheet does not name his grandfather (either Samuel/ WH or Edward) and also suggests that his wife was Elizabeth. This is clearly all wrong as census records even in 1901 give her name as Susan and all the correct names of all the other children. What he does say though, is that this mak worked as a clock and watchmaker for Sir John Bennett - that narrows it down a little and the British Horological Institute say that there is no record of a Samuel but plenty of references to William Henry...
As William Henry also seems to have married Susan Caroline's neice, I'd say the odds seem pretty high that he is one and the same lothario!
Thanks for all the info :)
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I am also wondering whether this could be a child of Susannah :-\:
Birth:
Susan Smith CROCKER - 1b 82 St Pancras Jun 1854 qtr
Death:
Susan Smith CROCKER - 1b ? St Pancras Dec 1854 qtr
Burial was at St James The Less, Bethnal Green on 29 Oct 1854 (child aged 8 weeks)
Nigel
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How sad - possibly!
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Cholera was rife in 1854.
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So you think this is the culprit and I think that his wife definitely knows whats going on!
Susannah declares she is a wife but doesn't put mar (married) in the condition section and as an afterthought a large W is then inputted in that section by someone, probably the enumerator?....Susannah is no fool.........
1871 census
Alie Street, Great, St Mary Whitechapel, London, Middx
Susannah Crocker......Wife.......60 W......................Bucklesbury, Berkshire
Robert............"...........Son........29...watchmaker.......................Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Ferris David Porter...Boarder.....16....clerk c......................Whitechapel, Middlesex
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1861 census
34 Great Alie Street, Whitechapel, London, Middlesex
William H Crocker....Head....52...Chronometer Maker....Milford, Hampshire
Susannah......."........Wife....52.......................................Bucklebury, Berkshire
Robert............".........Son.....21....Watch Maker..............St Luke, Middlesex
Frederick........".........Son.....20...Clerk Stationer............Whitechapel, Middlesex
Ferris? Porter.............Visitor....7.......................................Stepney, Middlesex
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1851 census
58 Mansell Street, Saint Mary Whitechapel, Tower Hamlets, London, Middx
William Hen Crocker....Head....50....Chronometer Maker........Hants
Susannah.........".........Wife......43...........................................Bucklesbury
William Henry....".........Son.......14........Scholar.......................Trinity Minoris
Robert...............".........Son.......11........Scholar.......................St Lukes
Frederick...........".........Son.......10........Scholar.......................Whitechapel
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Bryant
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1841 census
Alie Street, Great, St Mary Whitechapel, Tower HamletsLondon, Middx
William Crocker.......36.........chronometer maker.............no
Susannah..."...........36.....................................................no
William........".............5.....................................................Middlesex
Robert........"............18 months........................................Middlesex
Fredrick.......".............7 months........................................Middlesex
James........."............20.......chronometer maker J............no
Ebenezer...."............15...........Ass/Aps?..........................no
Ass/Aps = assistant/apprentice
plus other people not of the name
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Bryant
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Could be some connection, Frederick was bapt. Frederick Joel in 1841 .
Jennifer
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"William Henry Crocker is recorded as having a business between 1838 and 1867:-
41 Rahere Street, Clerkenwell between 1838 and 1849
34 Great Alice Street 1841 – 1845 and also 1856 – 1867
70 Leman Street 1847 – 1849
106 Leman Street in 1851
He is described as a watch, clock and chronometer maker and clearly had a fairly extensive business." (Info from Antiquarian Horological Society).
If he had 2 other sons - one aged 20 in 1841 - that puts his birth to about 1804-5 and he would have had his son aged about 16!! He started young then.
There is a marriage of William Henry Crocker to Susanna Bedding at St George's, Hanover in 1833. This seems likely, although not for James and Ebenezer!
Thanks for all this!
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And the plot still thickens. IGI records a birth of Ebenezer Crocker in 1825 to a William and Henrietta in Holborn (right place).
There is a marriage of a William Crocker to a Henrietta Collins on 27 Oct 1816 at St Anne's, Soho but he would have been very young!!!
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I also found years ago a reference to another James Crocker born 1800 in Milford on Sea, another watchmaker.
He does have a son, James born about 1820 born Hornsey, Middx or Milford according to various censuses who is also a watchmaker/ thermometer (I think they mean chromoneter) maker. He has a brother, Edward, born 1825, also a watchmaker. They seem to be the Crocker Brothers of Brook Street, Kingston. There is also a son, Samuel and others.
I think that the James, 1800, is probably William Henry's brother but it is pure speculation!
I must order some birth certificates!
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As stated before...
1875
William Henry Cornell marries Sarah Cornell (daughter of Susan Caroline Smith's sister) in the Sep qtr 1875 Marylebone...I wonder if the witnesses were the "ex wives" ::)
I gather this is he and not his son....one being too young and the other too old! .......in 1851 he states he is 50 years old, 30 years later he is 60
I don't think I would have been inclined to buy one of his watches
1881 census
24, Charlotte St, St Marylebone, London, Middlesex
William H Crocker...Head....60...Chronometer Maker.....Milford, Hampshire
Sarah............"........Wife.....36.......................................Ashdown, Essex
Harry R.........."........Son........5.......................................Marylebone, Middlesex
Richard R......."........Son........3.......................................Marylebone, Middlesex
Maud R..........".......Daur........1......................................Marylebone, Middlesex
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So you think this is the culprit and I think that his wife definitely knows whats going on!
Susannah declares she is a wife but doesn't put mar (married) in the condition section and as an afterthought a large W is then inputted in that section by someone, probably the enumerator?....Susannah is no fool.........
1871 census
Alie Street, Great, St Mary Whitechapel, London, Middx
Susannah Crocker......Wife.......60 W......................Bucklesbury, Berkshire
Robert............"...........Son........29...watchmaker.......................Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Ferris David Porter...Boarder.....16....clerk c......................Whitechapel, Middlesex
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1861 census
34 Great Alie Street, Whitechapel, London, Middlesex
William H Crocker....Head....52...Chronometer Maker....Milford, Hampshire
Susannah......."........Wife....52.......................................Bucklebury, Berkshire
Robert............".........Son.....21....Watch Maker..............St Luke, Middlesex
Frederick........".........Son.....20...Clerk Stationer............Whitechapel, Middlesex
Ferris? Porter.............Visitor....7.......................................Stepney, Middlesex
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1851 census
58 Mansell Street, Saint Mary Whitechapel, Tower Hamlets, London, Middx
William Hen Crocker....Head....50....Chronometer Maker........Hants
Susannah.........".........Wife......43...........................................Bucklesbury
William Henry....".........Son.......14........Scholar.......................Trinity Minoris
Robert...............".........Son.......11........Scholar.......................St Lukes
Frederick...........".........Son.......10........Scholar.......................Whitechapel
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Bryant
1841 census
Alie Street, Great, St Mary Whitechapel, Tower HamletsLondon, Middx
William Crocker.......36.........chronometer maker.............no
Susannah..."...........36.....................................................no
William........".............5.....................................................Middlesex
Robert........"............18 months........................................Middlesex
Fredrick.......".............7 months........................................Middlesex
James........."............20.......chronometer maker J............no
Ebenezer...."............15...........Ass/Aps?..........................no
Ass/Aps = assistant/apprentice
plus other people not of the name
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Bryant
Bryant
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LOL - no, Susanna was dead by then but it seems rich, if what we surmise is correct, that he chose not to marry Susan but her neice and then embark upon a young family with her. Interestingly their middle name is 'Ratcliffe' or 'Radcliffe'. This could either be a reference to Ratcliffe Street or the district in that part of London or could be some kind of weird homage to Dr Henry Radcliffe Crocker, the famous Victorian dermatologist who treated cases of acne agumenta. Maybe they felt that the name confusion would help with upwardly mobile aspirations.
I am kind of impressed that this man was virile for so young and obviously altered his age to suit the occasion - he can't have looked his age! My father is now a fairly sprightly 86, so maybe it's in the genes, lol.
Re the watches/ clocks - what one gleans is that he was successful in business. Chronometer making was a skilled art and above that of normal clock and watchmakers. Such items would be very valuable today. If he worked for Sir John Bennett, who also had a mistress and a large second family, I gather, then he would have been good.
I must order some certificates - as you say, the Sarah Cornell/ William Crocker marriage one could be interesting!
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William Henry Crocker, the son, born 1837, seems to have become a cheesemonger and married a Mary Ann ?
Cheesemonger:
12 Argyle Street, West Ham, Essex
Death - Dec 1895 - West Ham 4a 103
He has at least 5 children: Amy Maryon; Susannah Frederica; Ernest Henry; Grace Violet and Beatrice Josephine.
Susanna married a William John G Chuck in 1900; Ernest Henry married Ethel Plummer and had Sydney R and Arthur S; Beatrice married Frank Wilberforce Varley and Grace married William James Humerston.
In his new marriage to Sarah Cornell, of the 4 children, I found 1 marriage of Mabel Radcliffe Crocker to Herbert Thomas Stonehewer in 1904. He was of 426 Upper Richmond Road East Sheen SRY. They had at least 1 child - Mabel Edna Stonehewer who died in 1996. She was born in 1905.
There have to be some descendants out there!!
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There is a marriage of William Henry Crocker to Susanna Bedding at St George's, Hanover in 1833. This seems likely, although not for James and Ebenezer!
And the plot still thickens. IGI records a birth of Ebenezer Crocker in 1825 to a William and Henrietta in Holborn (right place).
There is a marriage of a William Crocker to a Henrietta Collins on 27 Oct 1816 at St Anne's, Soho but he would have been very young!!!
James and Ebenezer are almost certainly not his sons. They appear after William Henry's children and are not born in the county according to the 1841 Census. Perhaps they were born in Hampshire and are younger brothers or nephews.
Ebenezer, who is the son of William and Henrietta is with these parents in 1851 (HO107; Piece: 1645; Folio: 836; Page: 18). This William was born in Cornwall and is a Minister of a ? Chapel.
Nigel
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In that case, I would speculate that the James Crocker born 1820 c is the son of James Crocker born 1800 Milford. This 1820 James was a watchmaker and was born in either Milford or Hornsey. It is also possible that there was an Ebenezer.
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There are references to a Susanna Bedding born 1798 or 1801 in Bucklebury, Berkshire though! It seems likely therefore that the Crocker/ Bedding marriage is the William and Susannah one.
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In that case, I would speculate that the James Crocker born 1820 c is the son of James Crocker born 1800 Milford. This 1820 James was a watchmaker and was born in either Milford or Hornsey. It is also possible that there was an Ebenezer.
The James and Ebenezer Crocker who appear in the 1841 Census are probably the sons of Robert Crocker, farmer.
There is the marriage of James Crocker, watchmaker, to Sarah Elizabeth Shergold on 15 Nov 1841 at St John's Paddington. Robert Crocker, farmer named as James' father. Witnesses are Matilda Crocker and Henry Nash.
James (without his wife) is with his parents in 1851 (see below).
There is also the marriage of Ebenezer Crocker, harness maker, to Jane Anne Sanders on 5 Nov 1848 at St Marylebone. Again, Robert Crocker, farmer named as the father. Witnesses are William Berridge? House and Sarah House.
Ebenezer, harness maker aged 25, and Jane Anne, waist coat maker aged 22, emigrate to Australia arriving at Port Phillip Bay on 28 Jun 1849. Ebenezer died in Williamstown, Victoria on 4 Mar 1894.
1851 Census
Hordle, Hampshire
HO107; Piece: 1666; Folio: 384; Page: 4
Robert Crocker Head Mar 61 Farmer 4 acres land Hants, Milford
Mary Crocker Wife Mar 66 Hants, Milford
James Crocker Son Mar 31 Watchmaker Hants, Milford
Alford Crocker Grandson 4 London, Whitechapel
There is a tree on Ancestry which shows William Henry Crocker as baptised in Milford on 30 Sep 1809 with Robert Radcliffe Crocker (baptised 28 Sep 1789, Milford according to the tree although familysearch has a date of 11 Oct 1789 at Pennington, Hampshire) and Mary Seir (baptised 18 Sep 1784, Milford) as his parents. A Henry Radcliffe Crocker (not the famous dermatologist) appears to be Robert Radcliffe Crocker's father.
Therefore, William Henry, James and Ebenezer Crocker appear to be brothers.
According to the tree on Ancestry, Robert and Mary had the following children baptised:
30 Sep 1809 - William Henry Crocker
28 Apr 1811 - Charles Crocker
21 Aug 1813 - Elizabeth Crocker
13 Jul 1815 - Emma Crocker
9 Jul 1817 - Ann Crocker
6 Sep 1819 - James Crocker
12 Dec 1821 - Ellen Crocker
18 Feb 1824 - Ebenezer Crocker
26 Mar 1826 - Philip Edward Crocker
6 Jun 1828 - Martha Crocker
What happened to the Charles Crocker baptised in 1811?
William Henry Crocker, the son, born 1837, seems to have become a cheesemonger and married a Mary Ann ?
Cheesemonger:
12 Argyle Street, West Ham, Essex
Death - Dec 1895 - West Ham 4a 103
He has at least 5 children: Amy Maryon; Susannah Frederica; Ernest Henry; Grace Violet and Beatrice Josephine.
Susanna married a William John G Chuck in 1900; Ernest Henry married Ethel Plummer and had Sydney R and Arthur S; Beatrice married Frank Wilberforce Varley and Grace married William James Humerston.
In his new marriage to Sarah Cornell, of the 4 children, I found 1 marriage of Mabel Radcliffe Crocker to Herbert Thomas Stonehewer in 1904. He was of 426 Upper Richmond Road East Sheen SRY. They had at least 1 child - Mabel Edna Stonehewer who died in 1996. She was born in 1905.
There have to be some descendants out there!!
William Henry Crocker (the son) was baptised at Holy Trinity Minories on 7 Aug 1836 and married Mary Ann Hodges at St Botolph without Bishopsgate on 10 Apr 1860.
Nigel
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LOL - no, Susanna was dead by then but it seems rich, if what we surmise is correct, that he chose not to marry Susan but her neice and then embark upon a young family with her. Interestingly their middle name is 'Ratcliffe' or 'Radcliffe'. This could either be a reference to Ratcliffe Street or the district in that part of London or could be some kind of weird homage to Dr Henry Radcliffe Crocker, the famous Victorian dermatologist who treated cases of acne agumenta. Maybe they felt that the name confusion would help with upwardly mobile aspirations.
I am kind of impressed that this man was virile for so young and obviously altered his age to suit the occasion - he can't have looked his age! My father is now a fairly sprightly 86, so maybe it's in the genes, lol.
Re the watches/ clocks - what one gleans is that he was successful in business. Chronometer making was a skilled art and above that of normal clock and watchmakers. Such items would be very valuable today. If he worked for Sir John Bennett, who also had a mistress and a large second family, I gather, then he would have been good.
I must order some certificates - as you say, the Sarah Cornell/ William Crocker marriage one could be interesting!
See my previous post regarding the possible Radcliffe connection. The famous dematologist may be related!
The Robert Radcliffe Crocker who was baptised on 27 Apr 1840 at St James, Clerkenwell (son of William Henry Crocker and Susanna Bedding) is, therefore, named after William Henry's father.
Nigel
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Now that is brilliant and fascinating - actually I had a ? Robert and Mary Seir down as parents but did not remember where I had got that from. I did not know about the Radcliffe connection!
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The only thing that I have that does not quite fit, is the reference I copied onto paper for:
James Crocker b 1800 Milfordd Hampshire with wife, Sara E born 1806 Clerkenwell.
They have the following children:
James 1820 (watchmaker) born Milford or Hornsey - children Samuel and Mary A
Edward 1825 b Hornsey (watchmaker)
Alfred 1827 Whitechapel
Phlip 1829 Whitechapel
Martha 1831 Whitechapel
Samuel 1833 Hornsey
Walter 1835 Hornsey
Albert 1838 Hornsey
I don't know where I got this from. I wonder if this is another of Henry R Crocker's sons?
Re Charles born 1811, I wonder if this child died and WH used some of his name Samuel C Crocker b 1811 in the 1871 census where he appears with Susan...
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The only thing that I have that does not quite fit, is the reference I copied onto paper for:
James Crocker b 1800 Milfordd Hampshire with wife, Sara E born 1806 Clerkenwell.
They have the following children:
James 1820 (watchmaker) born Milford or Hornsey - children Samuel and Mary A
Edward 1825 b Hornsey (watchmaker)
Alfred 1827 Whitechapel
Phlip 1829 Whitechapel
Martha 1831 Whitechapel
Samuel 1833 Hornsey
Walter 1835 Hornsey
Albert 1838 Hornsey
I don't know where I got this from. I wonder if this is another of Henry R Crocker's sons?
Re Charles born 1811, I wonder if this child died and WH used some of his name Samuel C Crocker b 1811 in the 1871 census where he appears with Susan...
It looks like the information is incorrectly recorded from the 1861 Census (RG9; Piece: 792; Folio: 44; Page: 79). The ages for James, Sarah and the children are as follows in 1861:
James Crocker 41 Hants, Milford
Sarah E Crocker 36 Middx, Clerkenwell
James Crocker 18 Middx, Hoxton
Edward Crocker 16
Alfred Crocker 14
Phillip Crocker 12
Martha Crocker 10
Samuel Crocker 8
Walter Crocker 6
Albert Crocker 3
Sarah Elizabeth Shergold was baptised at St James, Clerkenwell on 22 Jun 1824 (parents John and Jane).
I am wondering whether William Henry tried to hold himself out as his younger brother!!! ;D
Nigel
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Could be!!
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Could be!!
Your ages are 20 years out. I would guess you were looking at the 1861 Census but recorded the details as if it was the 1841 Census.
Nigel
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Sorry - yes, I must have done that!
I meant the 'could be' for the masquerading as a brother.
Thanks for all of this.
The Dr Henry Radcliffe crocker was born in Hove in 1845. His parents were a Henry Crocker and a Maria Walters. They also had a daughter, Charlotte Eliza.
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The Dr Henry Radcliffe crocker was born in Hove in 1845. His parents were a Henry Crocker and a Maria Walters. They also had a daughter, Charlotte Eliza.
Henry and Maria married in Salisbury (8 553 Salisbury Sep 1841 qtr). Henry was born in Bath, Somerset about 1807.
Nigel
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Thanks :)
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And...
I ordered the birth certificate for Walter Crocker Smith and it IS the right person, listing Susan Caroline Smith as his mother but no father. They were living at 20 Nottingham Place, Stepney in 1855.
Yay!
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I'm the great great Granddaughter of Ebenezer Crocker (Australia) if you would like to make contact.
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Re Ebenezer Crocker: I have a copy of the original baptism. His parents are Robert Ratcliffe Crocker and Mary Seir
Robert's father was Henry Ratcliffe Crocker Born in Milford 1747 .. He died in 1822
Crocker Henry 1747 1822 1822 Hampshire Burials Milford, Hampshire, England
Crocker Henry Ratcliff — — 1775 Hampshire Marriages Milford, Hampshire, England
Surely the famous Henry Ratcliffe Crocker is a relative still to find. He is born much later and they come from towns not so faraway from each other. (Time will tell.)
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Re Ebenezer Crocker: I have a copy of the original baptism. His parents are Robert Ratcliffe Crocker and Mary Seir
Robert's father was Henry Ratcliffe Crocker Born in Milford 1747 .. He died in 1822
Crocker Henry 1747 1822 1822 Hampshire Burials Milford, Hampshire, England
Crocker Henry Ratcliff — — 1775 Hampshire Marriages Milford, Hampshire, England
Surely the famous Henry Ratcliffe Crocker is a relative still to find. He is born much later and they come from towns not so faraway from each other. (Time will tell.)
I have been trying to make a link but have not been successful so far but it does seem as if there should be some kind of relationship!