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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: Karen47 on Wednesday 29 December 10 20:35 GMT (UK)
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I am trying to find an Elizabeth Stanley - born in Sheffield 1846 - and an associated family tree. I believe there were two Elizabeth Stanleys - one born in Sheffield and once born in Ecclesall Bierslow - and I can find nothing further. The Elizabeth I am interested in had a father called Thomas who was born in Bretby, Derbyshire. I am rather puzzled as after quite a lot of research on various family history web sites, Thomas seems to have had 3 wives, originating from all over the place, but I can only find one that was registered (Sarah A. Baker from St Georges Hanover Square)! If anyone can help I would be extremely grateful.
Karen47
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Are you certain Elizabeth was b Sheffield??
Did she marry Thomas Allen??
Suz
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Hi Suz - According to both 1851 and 1861 census Elizabeth was born in Sheffield - 1851 living at St Georges Hanover Square and 1861 staying with her aunt in Burton Upon Trent. Although part of the same family, the Elizabeth I am looking for was not married to Thomas Allen - the dates are not correct and that Elizabeth was born in Nottingham.
Many thanks for your reply
Karen47
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Hello Karen,
I take it that you are sure that the one in London and the one in Burton is the same Elizabeth and is also the one you want.
Where do you have your Elizabeth in later censuses?
As Suz found and you have pointed out, the one born Nottingham and married to Mr Allen has the father born in Derbyshire.
If you have found trees on a site such as Anc. sometimes these can be wrong because people are 'claimed' from censuses and other trees without verification.
Can you work back from when you have your Elizabeth definitely, e.g married in a census.
regards
heywood
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Thomas Stanley married Sarah Ann Baker 14.7.1845 at Lambeth St Mary's - they are the parents of the 1851 Elizabeth Stanley who was b 1846 Sheffield and is living with her mother and Baker grandparents in London
Sarah Ann Stanley is a widow in 1861 working as a servant in Battersea
I believe there were two Elizabeth Stanleys - one born in Sheffield and once born in Ecclesall Bierslow
The 1851 also has an Elizabeth Stanley b 1846 Sheffield living in Sheffield with unmarried mother Ann HO107 Piece 2339 Folio 649 Page 27
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I think I can see the mystery surrounding Thomas Stanley.
When you said that Elizabeth is part of the same family - do you mean that there is more than one Thomas Stanley or that the same man has various families?
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Thank you everyone for your interest. The Elizabeth living with her mother Ann is not the person I am looking for - she is the 2nd Elizabeth born in Sheffield. In 1861 my Elizabeth was in Burton Upon Trent with her aunt. Elizabeth's father was Thomas who was born in Bretby (sometimes called Bradby) in Derbyshire. This is only a very small village and there were very few "Stanleys" born/died there 1800 - 1840 so Thomas is fairly easy to trace on the Census. He seems to have been associated/married to Sarah A. Baker 1845, Charlotte unknown surname (1851 census Hull) and Ann unknown surname (1861 census Sheffield).
I look forward to more suggestions.
Many thanks
Karen
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I cannot see how or why you are associating the 1851/1861 Thomas Stanley b Derbyshire with your Elizabeth Stanley
The 1845 marriage cert shows him as "full age" occ servant
He is not with Sarah in 1851 and in 1861 she is a widow
The 1851 census for Thomas Stanley wife Charlotte shows his occupation as a steward
Apart from his name being Thomas Stanley and the fact he and Charlotte were living in Hull in 1851 - what documentary proof do you have that he is the same Thomas Stanley who married Sarah Ann Baker?
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James Morris married Elizabeth Stanley in 1850.
She was born Bretby.
Family Search has her parents as John and Elizabeth Stanley and there is also a Thomas christened 1816 to this couple.
That links the Morrises and a Thomas Stanley and Elizabeth Stanley (mother Baker).
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1851 HO107; Piece: 2362; Folio: 143; Page: 27
Thomas Stanley b 1815, Bradbey is living in Hull with wife Charlotte and a son Alfred 3 yrs b Hull
1861 RG9; Piece: 3474; Folio: 42; Page: 36
Thomas Stanley b 1816 Bradby, is living in Ecclesall Bierlow with wife Ann and several children including Elizabeth Allen but importantly Alfred 12 yrs b Hull.
Karen, I'm sure you know this backwards but I am just thinking aloud ::)
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Heywood - Many thanks, yes I have that information which is why I am so puzzled as why so many women are connected to him?!! i.e. Sarah, Charlotte and Ann. I am frustrated as to why I can't find marriage certificates for Charlotte and Ann. Am I looking in the wrong place or was he just a 21st Century man born too early.... !! However, to get back to my original search - where did Elizabeth Stanley go after she left her aunts after the 1861 census?
Karen
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So- wife Ann (1861) and those children (apart from Alfred and a younger one) are Kemp in 1851
1851 HO107; Piece: 2137; Folio: 353; Page: 29
I wonder what happened to Charlotte (1851 'wife'). Scarily, there is a Charlotte Stanley death in 1858 St George Hanover Square :o (Hope it's not her!)
Our posts crossed - it does look as though he was living with these women (many did ;))
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But what links Sarah Ann Baker b East Dereham Norfolk to this particular Thomas Stanley?
Sarah Ann Bakers mother was b East Dereham and her father was b Sussex so neither have a Derbyshire connection
Sarah Ann is a widow in 1861 but Thomas is alive and kicking with a wife Ann
Have any marriages been found to Charlotte or Ann?
Have any birth certs been obtained to establish Charlotte/Ann's maiden names
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www.yorkshirebmd.org.uk
Yorkshire Birth indexes for the years: 1848
STANLEY Alfred V(Valentine) West Sculcoates Hull WES/5/428
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Hi Carole,
that's the one bit that I have difficulty with - is it the same Thomas Stanley who marries Sarah Ann Baker - what is he doing in Lambeth? But Sarah Ann has obviously spent time in Sheffield as her child was born there :-\
heywood :)
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However, to get back to my original search - where did Elizabeth Stanley go after she left her aunts after the 1861 census?
Karen
There are various deaths/marriages (some she would be too young) in Sheffield 1861-1871 plus many other places.
You may never find out - but you may be clearer about Thomas and his escapades ;)
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Hi Heywood
James Morris married Elizabeth Stanley in 1850.
She was born Bretby.
Family Search has her parents as John and Elizabeth Stanley and there is also a Thomas christened 1816 to this couple.
That links the Morrises and a Thomas Stanley and Elizabeth Stanley (mother Baker).
I'm ok with Thomas b 1816 Bretby - parents John & Elizabeth Stanley and I'm ok with his sister Elizabeth marrying James Morris in 1850. The 1845 marriage cert shows Thomas Stanley's father as John (deceased)
What I can't see is how that info links to Sarah Ann Baker b Norfolk and living in Middlesex?
What proof is there that the Thomas Stanley b Derbyshire was the same man who married Sarah Baker in 1845?
Neither the banns nor the 1845 marriage cert show his birthyear/birthplace and he is not with Sarah in 1851 or 1861 for that info to be established
I wonder what happened to Charlotte (1851 'wife'). Scarily, there is a Charlotte Stanley death in 1858 St George Hanover Square
That Charlotte was only b 1857 - as per burial records
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Carole,
Yes I agree that is a puzzle.
The marriage certificate of Thomas and Sarah Ann Baker whould have his father's name so that could be the 'proof'.
I can't believe the time- I'm off to bed!
goodnight :)
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The 1845 marriage cert shows Thomas Stanley's father as John (deceased)
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Once again, many thanks for all of your suggestions - it seems as if you are all as confused as me as to why Thomas Stanley was such a "traveller"!! On the 1851 census (St Georges Hanover Square) where Elizabeth was living aged 5, the places of birth for the other members of the family were: Sussex, Norfolk, Burton Upon Trent and Sheffield!! His 2nd family (1851 census Kingston Upon Hull) originated from Bretby, Licoln and Hull!! His 3rd family (1861 census Sheffield) originated from Lincoln, Northampton, Nottingham, Hull, Newark and Sheffield!! However, thanks to Rootschat I am now in contact with someone who has considerably more information and if this produces some substantial detail I will post it for all to see. Your assistance and help has been much appreciated.
Karen
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Hi
and if this produces some substantial detail I will post it for all to see
Please keep this thread open just in case - I do hope the mystery is solved for you - I'm having nightmares about Thomas Stanley!!
I actually have the Stanley surname appearing in my own FH but not in any direct line - and not in Derbyshire!
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Thanks Carol - considering the time of night that all the messages were being posted, I think most of us had nightmares about the gigolo Thomas Stanley!! I will certainly keep you updated as and when I get further information.
Karen
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Hello you two!
I think I think ::) that it is the same Thomas and he was a bit of a lad!
Please let us know if anything comes of this enquiry.
Happy New Year!
heywood :)
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Dear All,
A year has passed since this discussion took place. I was soooo hoping that an update would have been posted; any chance??? please? I have found this man, Thomas is in my tree and I am too am having the same nightmare tracking him down! He is linked to my tree through his father, who married (2nd time around) a woman half his age, Sarah HOLLINS... this is my link!
Would love to know more/ get in touch.
Best wishes and Happy Puzzling in 2012
Louise
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Hello Louise - I can't believe a year has gone by. I have done no further research on Thomas Stanley and/or the Stanley line but you have triggered my interest again and over the next couple of weeks I will come back to you again with any updates I have managed to find.
Thanks for your interest and a very Happy New Year.
Karen
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Hi Karen,
Great to hear from you. Hope to hear more from you soon as I have reached a brick wall now ! Cheers
Louise