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Some Special Interests => Occupation Interests => Topic started by: magicnanny on Wednesday 29 December 10 01:13 GMT (UK)

Title: Railways 1800's
Post by: magicnanny on Wednesday 29 December 10 01:13 GMT (UK)
Hello,
 Does anybody know if there was a train that went from Wales to Great Yarmouth .
I' am trying to connect the two ,   as i am tracing two relatives and how they met one from Wales & one from Great Yarmouth ...he worked on the railways in 1850's onwards  for  most of his life . I know nothing of railways .
This is the only way I' can think that maybe they got together .
 thankyou magicnanny
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: mrwilson on Wednesday 29 December 10 05:56 GMT (UK)
Hi,

Given the number of independent railway companies in the 19th century, I would imagine they met in the middle, like London.
Discounting the numerous amalgamations, Great Yarmouth was serviced mainly by Great Eastern Railways and Sth Wales by Great Western Railways.

Expansion of railways in the 19th century was great, but each company had it's own territory.
http://mappery.com/map-of/1887-Prinicipal-Railways-in-England-and-Wales-Map

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/courses/rschwart/rail/railways_rural_develop.htm

Do you have a year/decade in mind? Town in Wales?

Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: magicnanny on Wednesday 29 December 10 12:29 GMT (UK)
I' have him (George Senior)working on the railways as railway breaker 1891  ,railway  guard  1901,
and by 1932 on his  son's marrige cert.. he was a tram driver,     Annie who he later married in Cardiff   1888 ,   had been living in Gt Yarmouth ,(she was working in a public house)
I' cannot find any of her relatives in ,  or  any connection to Wales or even that she  worked with the railways.  George seemed to have lived in only Wales .
 so unfortunately I' have come to a halt .
 thanks Magicnanny.
Just one more Question did women work on the railways i wonder ?
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: stanmapstone on Wednesday 29 December 10 14:07 GMT (UK)

Just one more Question did women work on the railways i wonder ?

In the 1901 Census there were 431 women listed under "Railway Officials or Clerks", and 745 listed under "Railway Porters & Servants"

Stan
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Redroger on Wednesday 29 December 10 18:32 GMT (UK)
Where in Wales did he live, and which railway company did he work for? What I have in mind is that some of the Midland Railway routes penetrated into Wales, and there was a Midland and Great Northern Joint Railway which served Norfolk and ran into Great Yarmouth.
I wonder if George used a railway free pass to go to Yarmouth on holiday and met her there?
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: ScouseBoy on Wednesday 29 December 10 18:53 GMT (UK)
I' have him (George Senior)working on the railways as railway breaker 1891  ,railway  guard  1901,
and by 1932 on his  son's marrige cert.. he was a tram driver,     Annie who he later married in Cardiff   1888 ,   had been living in Gt Yarmouth ,(she was working in a public house)
I' cannot find any of her relatives in ,  or  any connection to Wales or even that she  worked with the railways.  George seemed to have lived in only Wales .
 so unfortunately I' have come to a halt .
 thanks Magicnanny.
Just one more Question did women work on the railways i wonder ?

They have trams at Llandudno, going up to the Summit of the Great Orme.

Llandudno is a premier holiday resort,   as was Rhyl in the  19th century.  Is there a link that Gt Yarmouth is also a seaside holiday resort?

The railways opened up some of the North Wales coastal towns as holiday resorts for the Midlands and Potteries.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: mrwilson on Wednesday 29 December 10 22:13 GMT (UK)
From 1902 electric trams ran in Cardiff. They stopped running in 1950.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: magicnanny on Wednesday 26 January 11 20:39 GMT (UK)

Just one more Question did women work on the railways i wonder ?

In the 1901 Census there were 431 women listed under "Railway Officials or Clerks", and 745 listed under "Railway Porters & Servants"

Stan

This might sound silly ,but how do i find out the women listed ,sorry to ask the obvious
 but just not sure. as i am still trying to make my connection between gt yarmouth & wales. magicnanny
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: stanmapstone on Wednesday 26 January 11 23:05 GMT (UK)
These figures are from the 1901 Census Report http://www.rootschat.com/links/0bj9/
As far as I know only the 1881 Census is searchable by occupation

Stan
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Redroger on Thursday 27 January 11 11:16 GMT (UK)
I can't think of a short cut, other than to say that if the staff records survive then they are held in the National Archives at Kew. Then, it would be a hard slog identifying the women staff from the men by Christian names, with the inevitable doubts over the Viviens, Hilarys and Evelyns etc. You might of course be very lucky.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 27 January 11 11:26 GMT (UK)
Most couples met when the female went to work in domestic service, and London was by far the biggest employer for women in domestic service.  It's possible that either the young lady went into domestic service herself, or may have been visiting another family member who was.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Redroger on Thursday 27 January 11 11:32 GMT (UK)
True, but when I worked on the railways, (some time after the 1800s) it was regarded as the biggest marriage bureau in town.
I see no reason to believe this did not apply in the 19th century also, all that was needed was unmarried staff of both sexes.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 27 January 11 12:21 GMT (UK)
I don't think you would find too many women working on the railways between 1851 and 1914.   It was really only the outbreak of WW1 that saw women moving into jobs which were previously done by men.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Redroger on Thursday 27 January 11 12:26 GMT (UK)
See reply No.7 above, 1176 total in the 1901 census, out of a total number of at least 500,000 employees, say around 2%, a minority, but a significant number.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Nick29 on Thursday 27 January 11 12:42 GMT (UK)
Yes, but many would have been cleaners, workers in station cafes and women who opened and closed crossing gates.   I'm not sure you'd find too many on the actual trains pre-1914.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: KGarrad on Thursday 27 January 11 14:12 GMT (UK)
Maybe railways had little to do with it?

My grandparents met and married (1919) in Blackwood, Monmouthshire.
He was from an ag.lab background in Wiltshire; she was from Kent!

Puzzled me for many years as to how and why they would meet in South Wales.

I have the answer now - coal mining!
He and his brothers left farming and initially worked the Bristol coalfields, but then moved to S. Wales when pits closed in Bristol.
Her father couldn't find work in Kent (a promised job as a tram-driver fell through; his fish shop failed), so he ended up tending boilers in the S Wales mines, and then brought his family.

So, maybe Annie's family (father/brother?) could have come to South Wales for the mines?

Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Christine Knox on Thursday 27 January 11 14:24 GMT (UK)
Try Bradshaws railway guide ;)
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 27 January 11 15:20 GMT (UK)
Yes, but many would have been cleaners, workers in station cafes and women who opened and closed crossing gates.   I'm not sure you'd find too many on the actual trains pre-1914.

As you can see, in 1901, they are classed under "Railway Officials or Clerks", and  "Railway Porters & Servants" not on the actual trains  :)

Stan 
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 27 January 11 15:43 GMT (UK)
In the 1911 Census women employed on the Railways were only classified under;
Officials, Clerks 1,120, out of a total of 85,922
 Ticket- Examiners, Collectors, Checkers 19, out of a total of 3,426
Pointsmen, Level Crossing Men 341, out of a total of 14,833
Other Railway Servants 1,156, out of a total of 43,924

Stan


Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: stanmapstone on Thursday 27 January 11 16:53 GMT (UK)
In the 1921 Census 658,323 men and 23,816 women are shown as being employed by the Railway Companies

Stan
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Redroger on Friday 28 January 11 15:57 GMT (UK)
Very few if any women worked in operating railway grades before WW1. The principal exception was occupation crossing keepers, where the crossing keeper was on duty 24 hours a day tied to her home which went with the crossing, and would open the crossing gates perhaps 3 times per week! I believe a few women worked as guards during WW1, but traincrew grades were not open to women before the mid 1980s.Even then between the mid 1980s and 1990s when I retired women took over a traincrew depot rather than mixed with men at a depot, I have no knowledge of figures, but I do know the vast majority of women drivers and guards were concentrated at a very few depots, mainly I understand in the London area.
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: stanmapstone on Friday 28 January 11 16:09 GMT (UK)
Very few if any women worked in operating railway grades before WW1. The principal exception was occupation crossing keepers,

341 in 1911

Stan
Title: Re: Railways 1800's
Post by: Redroger on Friday 28 January 11 16:20 GMT (UK)
Occupational crossing keepers mainly, plus a very few signalwomen?