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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wiltshire Lookup Requests => Wiltshire => England => Wiltshire Completed Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Gaye on Thursday 23 December 10 20:15 GMT (UK)

Title: COMPLETED : 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Thursday 23 December 10 20:15 GMT (UK)
Hello and Merry  :D to you!

I am looking for extended info on FOSS family branch which includes
Samuel Foss b.abt 1850 Salisbury

I have him married with family on RG11 0673/20 Page 25
and subsequently in New Zealand.

Hoping to find the rest of his family and parents.

Many thanks in advance
GAYE
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Thursday 23 December 10 20:24 GMT (UK)


  His marriage ...

  Samuel Foss 29 bach farmer parish of Wanborough Berks
                                                      father John Foss      Farmer
 Mary Pool Ker 19 spinster of Battersea
                                        father James Ker commercial traveller
 Aug 30 1870  Christ Church Battersea.

 Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Thursday 23 December 10 20:30 GMT (UK)


  did he fib about age ...?

  John Foss hd m 43 dairyman
  Rachel      wi m 45  dairymans wife
  William      son u 14 dairymans son
  Fanny       dau u 12 scholar
 Samuel      son u 10 scholar
 Emma        dau u 8 scholar
 Susan        dau u 4 scholar   + 2 servants
 Kingston Russell Dorset HO107/1858 F 558 P1

 Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Thursday 23 December 10 21:01 GMT (UK)


Hiya Tazzie

What Census year is that?
If that is his family I guess its possible there was an older brother Samuel who died??

Can you find that family in the next Census?

The Samuel Foss b.abt 1850-51 = Mary Pool KER  1850
definitely are the ones who came to New Zealand to run a Dairy Factory and had the children shown on the 1881 Census plus more who were staying with Mr & Mrs Ker the grandparents in 1881 Census.  Headstone and BMD here in NZ confirm.

Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Friday 24 December 10 09:07 GMT (UK)

  That was 1851 .....
 I thought I had the right family but now am unsure will work back from Samuel in 1871 & 1861


  Tazzie

  ** post modified**
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Friday 24 December 10 09:17 GMT (UK)


 Here is Samuel in 1861 ...

 Samuel Foss hd un 20 farmer employ 2 men 1 boy
 Woodhouse  Hawkchurch Dorset
 RG9/1371 F 104 P6

 & 1871
  Samuel Foss hd m 30 dairyman employing 1 man Salisbury
  Marie            wi m 20  dairymans wife empl 1 boy  Tewkesbury
 + 1 servants
 Wilhelmina Ker vis un26                     Tewkesbury
Upper Town Wanborough  RG10/1880 F 39 P6.

 Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Friday 24 December 10 09:47 GMT (UK)


  Ok I maybe confusing myself here.....

  Samuel James Beart Foss bapt 11 June 1882 born 11 April 1882
                 father Samuel mother Mary Pool Foss
                    Vestry Rd Dairy      dairyman.

  so if Beart features in the name it should tie in but I have found this as well ..
 Samuel Beart Foss born @ 1839 died 1909 Swindon reg district Wilt.
 Did Samuel travel back to England?

 Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: familydar on Friday 24 December 10 14:09 GMT (UK)
Hi Gaye, Tazzie

Samuel Beart FOSS who died in 1909 left a Will, it's on the probate index on the A****** website (not sure I'm allowed to name it).  The index will probably tell you where he died/lived, how much he left and who probate was granted to (need someone with a subscription, I don't).

Happy Xmas
Jane
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Friday 24 December 10 14:28 GMT (UK)



  Hi Jane ....

  Good find missed that he is not the same Samuel Foss. This one married
 Annie Olds Wills in Dorchester reg district in 1876.
 He appears on 1881 with Annie gives his place of birth as Askerwell Dorset.

  So why do they both use Beart (as the surname of John Foss' first wife)
 Samuel Beart Foss b @ 1838 is also son of John with a wife called Betsey maiden name Margrie

  Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Friday 24 December 10 17:41 GMT (UK)
Morning

You can see now how the confusion arises with the two Samuel Foss - BUT one is Samuel BEART Foss b.1839-1840 Dorset the other Samuel Foss b.1850-51 Salisbury

The latter definitely dies in New Zealand 1908 and is married to Mary Pool Ker
who also dies here in 1919   They have a son b.1882 who is named Samuel James BEART Foss and he died WWI in France   

The BEART name must tie them somehow to the other Foss family.

Interesting to see a visitor Wilhelmina Ker b. Tewkesbury at the 1871 Foss household but again the age for this Samuel is 10 years out.  Mary Pool Ker is also born in Tewkesbury so they may be related both sides of the family.

curiouser and curiouser

Gaye
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Friday 24 December 10 18:03 GMT (UK)

Trying to attack it from another angle.

Could you do a search for the 1871 Census in Wanborough
Samuel Foss b.1850
Mary Pool wife b.1850 Tewkesbury
Georgina Marie dau b. Sept quarter 1871 Wanborough


Maybe will throw more light on the family and relatives.

Gaye
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Friday 24 December 10 18:06 GMT (UK)

  Glad I am not alone in being confused.. :D
  There is no birth registered @1850+/- for a Samuel Foss
  Samuel Beart Foss registered in 1839 Bridport
 & a plain Samuel Foss in 1839 Alderbury Wiltshire.

  I need another look at this lot.

  Tazzie

  Have already given 1871 Mary is given as Maria daughter would not show yet.
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Friday 24 December 10 19:00 GMT (UK)
Hi Tazzie

Well I'll be blowed by this one.
The only evidence of the 1850-51 DOB is from 1881 Census, grave headstone AND details on the son's WWI memorial site.  All else points to Samuel Foss as being b.1839-1840 including I now find, the NZ BMD online with his death age 67years.  So I think we've found him and family in that 1871 Census you've given.

As to the middle name of BEART I can't see where he's ever used it - none of his childrens birth in NZ BMD online shows that name for the father, just plain Samuel.  However, the fact that he gave his son that name says he is connected somewhere along the line to the BEART family - as is the other Samuel Beart Foss - and interestingly, his grandson b.1920 features it as a middle name.

I found an old 2005 post on another site about Samuel Foss and emailed to see if they had established anything - got an answer this morning :-
"christened 10 Jan 1841 Downton Wiltshire UK
Came to NZ 1881-1882
1885 Taratahi Dairy Manager
D 16 Feb 1908 Hukanui Pahiatua NZ
D 15 Feb 1908 age 67 in family bible
1896 Newspaper reports indicate a holiday in the UK after 11 years in the Taratahi job

Son of John Foss and Emma (Beart) Brit Isles Vital Rec idx FHL Film 1279375 dates 1601-1904

M 1870 Aug 30 Samuel Foss 29 Bach farmer and Mary Pool Ker 19 Spin @Christ Church Battersea Surrey entry #189
            M by license by WilboreMaeCarthy Curate
            Witnesses: James Ker and Georgina Ker"


Did you see that?  EMMA BEART was the mother of Samuel Foss????????
Blimey charlie what a tangled one this is!!!

Best wishes for today!
GAYE



Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: larakeet on Monday 27 December 10 02:28 GMT (UK)

Hi Tazzie ..

Can you please provide more details of Betsey mentioned below ..

I don't have her in the tree but understand that John was married to Emma Beart followed by Rachel Charles.

"
  So why do they both use Beart (as the surname of John Foss' first wife)
 Samuel Beart Foss b @ 1838 is also son of John with a wife called Betsey maiden name Margrie
"

Thanks
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: tazzie on Monday 27 December 10 19:10 GMT (UK)


  Hi ....

  Samuel Beart Foss was the son of John Foss & Betsey Margrie they married in Charmouth in 1829.

 The other Samuel Foss was the son of another John...
                              John Foss & Emma Beart who married in 1835 in Long Bredy  so 2 families both somehow connected to both Foss & Breart..... as yet I have not found how.

 Tazzie
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Monday 27 December 10 21:26 GMT (UK)
Hiya Tazzie

Yes you have that all correct - The elusive EMMA BEART b.abt 1816 d.1848 Dorset was John Foss' first wife and mother of the children. 
Doesn't appear that his second wife Rachel Charles had any children to him.

So who then is Emma's family - I'm unsure where she is from although since she married in Dorset she is probably from that area? 

I don't believe we have John Foss' 1841 Census (he is a dairyman not an Inn Keeper as per the HO107/1174/8 entry although the wife and childrens names are the same the ages are not)   :o   Or am I wrong on that?

Gaye

Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Yak3 on Tuesday 28 December 10 17:41 GMT (UK)
Hi - haven't much info on the "Foss" side but I believe Mary Pool could be the daughter of James Ker - born Scotland - Tea Dealer age 40 on 1851 Census - Barton Street Tewkesbury
Wife- Betsy age 29 born Newbury Berkshire
Daughters: Georgianna age 9; Anne age 8; Wilhelmina age 6; Margret age 4; and Mary P. age 0
Sons: Francis J. age 5; William age 3; John age 1;
James brothers - William age 31 and George age 27 - both Tea Dealers born in Scotland were also there on census night.

James Ker married Ann Collins on March 8th 1840 at Tewkesbury Abbey
Ann Ker died 1843 in Tewkesbury age 27
James Ker married Betsy Buckland in 1843 at Tewkesbury Registry Office
Anne and Georgianna mother is Collins - the remainder is Buckland

I do not know if Mary P. is Mary Pool but with Wilhelmina visiting on a later Census - it would suggest so.
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Tuesday 28 December 10 18:41 GMT (UK)
Thanks for that info Yak - can we find the 1861-1871 Census for
the Ker's??

I have James Ker & Elizabeth wife 1881 Census : -
96 Khyber Road Battersea Surrey
RG11 0644 / 115 Page 31
James KER Head aged 70  b. Annan, Scotland  Traveller      
Elizth. KER  Wife aged 60 b.    Newbury, Berkshire, England            
Francis J. KER      Son U aged 35 b. Tewkesbury, Gloucester,
Perfumers Warehouseman (M S)      
Georgina M. FOSS  Grand Dau aged 9 b. Wanborough, Wiltshire
Alice R. FOSS  Grand Dau aged 8 b. Wanborough, Wiltshire          
Agnes M. FOSS  Grand Dau age  2 b. Wanborough, Wiltshire 

Gaye    
Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Yak3 on Tuesday 28 December 10 20:04 GMT (UK)
Firstly I forgot to say but guess you realised that all children in 1851 Census were born Tewkesbury.

1861 Census:
James is living in Chance Street [around the corner from Barton Street] and is age 50 - Grocer and Tea Dealer - living with him are:-
Elizabeth his wife is 40
Daughters: 
Ann age 18 -Drapers Asst
Margaret age 14 - Scholar
Mary age 10 - Scholar
Wilhemina age 16 - Dressmaker
Sons:-
Francis J. age 15 - Grocers Apprentice
John age 12 - Scholar
William age 13 - Scholar

Georgiana Ker age 19 is in High Street as a Shop Assistant to James G. Coleman - Draper


1871 - The family had moved to Battersea
121? Grant Road
James is now recorded age 60 as a Trvelling Draper
He is with his wife Elizabeth age 50 and Frank J. Ker; Single age 25; Grocers Shopman

Georgina is an Assistant in the household of widow Jemima Spooner a China Dealer at Brixton Hill Lambeth
Wilhemina is with the Foss household and I cannot fing the others although there is a Margaret on FreeBMD who died age 19 - Ref: Cheltenham Sep qtr 1866 6a 227

other info:-
From 1850 Directory - James Kerr [sic] - Travelling Tea Dealer - Barton Street

1853 - Petty Sessions:
James Bird, Edward Davis And Richard Tompkins, Three Lads, Were Charged Under The By-laws Of The Borough With Wilfully And Wantonly Disturbing James Kerr, An Inhabitant, By Ringing His Door Bell Without Reasonable Cause. They Were Allowed A Week To Pay The Costs.

In 1855 - the son of Mr Ker, Tea Dealer was elected into the Grammar School Tewkesbury


Title: Re: 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Gaye on Wednesday 29 December 10 02:13 GMT (UK)
 ;D

Excellent information there Yak -  MANY MANY THANKS
for that work!

Best regards
GAYE
Title: Re: COMPLETED : 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Pentony on Monday 23 June 14 07:33 BST (UK)
FOSS family of Taratahi Clareville Carterton.... I have a recent photograph of Samuel James Beart FOSS taken at Dernacourt only last week, kindly emailed to me here at Clareville Am in touch with Sydney member of the Foss family.  Cannot access ROOTSWEB still, but feel sure there is a person of the same name in USA. with BEART as well.. site is down completely.. Where the Foss family were at Taratahi is literally up the road from where I am at Clareville, have seen the parents grave at Mangatinoaka as well. had to get the local council to alter their records as they had THOMAS FOSS, I said he was Samuel married to Mary Pool! Took them time to believe me! Would love for a family member to get back to me please, as someone wanted to do Samuel the soldier for the WW1 project. thank you. Clareville Taphophile
Title: Re: COMPLETED : 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: Geordie daughter on Wednesday 12 July 17 21:32 BST (UK)
Hi Gaye
By now you may have this information, but in case you don't, two Beart sisters married two Foss brothers, which is why there are two Samuel (Beart) Fosses, born in the same year in two different counties. John Foss married Emma Beart, as you already know; Samuel Foss, also born in Litton Cheney, Dorset, circa 1804, married Emma's older sister Thirza/Thyrza, by Licence in Marylebone, and their son Samuel died in 1849. Samuel was widowed by 1857 and is visiting his brother John in Wiltshire at the time of the 1871 census. The Beart family actually came from Wickham Market in Suffolk. (Another sister, Mahala Beart, also married a Dorset man, David Read.) I came on your post while busy untangling the various Samuel Fosses for myself ;D.
Title: Re: COMPLETED : 1851-1871 Census Lookup please
Post by: toby webb on Wednesday 13 March 19 11:34 GMT (UK)
This is a site that somehow I missed. Thank goodness that 'Beart' appeared from time tio time. There were Samuel Foss' everywhere. My earliest in this NZ connnected famiy is a Samuel foss who married Dorothy Rawls in 1729 at Compton Valence.
 'Beart Foss' also enabled me to find recently a civil engineer Samuel Wakeley Beart Foss traveliing frequently  to Malaysia  et al in the 1950s. The 1921 census, I am confident, will confirm his connection. He was born just after the 1911 Census.
Toby