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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Flakdodger on Monday 20 December 10 21:45 GMT (UK)

Title: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: Flakdodger on Monday 20 December 10 21:45 GMT (UK)
Hi folks,
This photo has surfaced and caused confusion in our wider family as to who is depicted.
Coldstreamer or Artilleryman?

We have two candidates:
Theophilus MASON born 1885 Newington, London.  Drummer 1614 2nd Battalion Coldstream Guards. 1911 census is at Aldershot.
CWGC gives DOD as 01/02/15.
Robert ALLEN born 1886 Hackney, London. Driver 51336  U Battery  Royal Horse Artillery.
1911 census is detached from Lucknow to Landour (India)

Another photo of what appears to be this gentleman shows him in khaki with 2 Good Conduct stripes. Artillery cap badge.

There is no money riding on this, but it would be useful to have wider opinion.
In addition, can this photo be dated?
A supplementary question is what would be the battlefield duties of a Drummer?
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: Little Nell on Monday 20 December 10 21:48 GMT (UK)
Has to be Royal Horse Artillery - he's wearing spurs!

I don't think the Coldstream Guards have ever worn a uniform quite like this one.

Nell

PS The cap badge is also RHA.
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: Flakdodger on Tuesday 21 December 10 20:28 GMT (UK)
Hello Nell,
thanks very much for your view - as I say, there was no money riding on it!
Dave
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 24 December 10 01:18 GMT (UK)
Hello mate...

Full dress uniform of Royal Horse Artillery...Sans busby... ;)

Unfortunately, the generic RA badge does not differentiate betwixt the different arms of the Regt,.

Apart from the spurs, he also has a large riding crop!
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: ainslie on Friday 24 December 10 10:43 GMT (UK)
Full marks for smart turn-out, apart from the hanky showing in his sleeve!
A
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 24 December 10 12:09 GMT (UK)
Full marks for smart turn-out, apart from the hanky showing in his sleeve!
A

Ahhhh the sign of a soldier...this is of course the way that Sherlock Holmes upon first meeting Dr Watson identified him as having been in the military!

"You'll never pass as a pure bred civilian as long as you keep that habit of carrying your handkerchief in your sleeve" " The Crooked Man"

Having no pockets on a uniform it was de rigeur for all ranks to carry a hankie in this way!
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: ainslie on Friday 24 December 10 12:13 GMT (UK)
Good citation! But surely a smart soldier, especially RHA, should have tucked it up before parading for the camera.
I speak as one who was bawled out by the great RSM Brittain, but not for the same offence.
Best wishes
A
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: maidmarianoops on Friday 24 December 10 13:16 GMT (UK)
http://www.paoyeomanry.co.uk/LY4.htm

hope this helps
sylvia
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: ainslie on Friday 24 December 10 14:52 GMT (UK)
Sylvia
Splendid site and pics!  However, the cap badge on the original photo is certainly Royal Artillery, and the Royal Horse Artillery's full dress is similar to the Hussars'  uniform.
A
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: r973g on Friday 24 December 10 15:22 GMT (UK)
With the exception of the cap, I was wearing that same uniform on occasions in1948/9
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: Flakdodger on Friday 24 December 10 20:49 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for an informative and amusing thread. I hope now that my rellies have accepted that this is not their Great Grandad.

Just diverting a moment to the Coldstreamer, what would have been a Drummer's battlefield duties?

I assume the photo is pre-1914, but just how "pre-1914"?
Does the crumpling of the hankie provide any clues  :D

Fascinating that you, r973g, were wearing the same uniform in 1948/49.

Seasons greetings to you all.
Dave
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: scrimnet on Friday 24 December 10 23:10 GMT (UK)
Thank you all for an informative and amusing thread. I hope now that my rellies have accepted that this is not their Great Grandad.

Educate and entertain!!  ;D

Just diverting a moment to the Coldstreamer, what would have been a Drummer's battlefield duties?

A drummer apres the turn of the last century would have been an infantryman/gunner/driver etc. By WW2 and thereafter, they usually became the SF (sustained fire) platoon, and carried medium/heavy machine guns. They are "hobbyists" and not full time and properly trained musicians like the Regt Band

I assume the photo is pre-1914, but just how "pre-1914"?

Turn of the 19th/20th century...1904 ish

Does the crumpling of the hankie provide any clues  :D

In a word...no!  ;)

Fascinating that you, r973g, were wearing the same uniform in 1948/49.

Seasons greetings to you all.

And to you!
Title: Re: Photo: Coldstreamer or Artilleryman
Post by: Flakdodger on Monday 27 December 10 17:53 GMT (UK)
I thought all you folks might like to see the later photo of Robert Mason, that I referred to.
Aged about 30 and somewhat less ceremonial looking. He has filled out too - a family trait.
Dave