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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: phillevo on Monday 20 December 10 03:33 GMT (UK)

Title: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Monday 20 December 10 03:33 GMT (UK)
Hi all,

I'm trying to find out about Joe, who married my auntie - Norma Booth in 1951.
They had no children of their own.

Joe had the milk bar at North Cronulla beach (Sydney) and was a well known local indentity. Unfortunately, I don't know much about him, whether he was born here or overseas (Italy, I presume).

His parents were Gaetano and Maria Santamaria I believe, and Joe passed away on 19 March 1996 and is buried in Waverley Cemetery here in Sydney. His wife, Norma passed away on 11 July 1994.

Joe had one sister only that I know of - Josie (Josephine?) and she married an Alwyn Nicholas and they had a daughter Elizabeth.

I would like to try and find out where he was born and when if anyone can help with any info, I'd be most grateful.

Cheers

Phil
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: cando on Monday 20 December 10 04:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Phil

Joe's marriage certificate would give you the names of his parents, and the date and place of his birth. 

Info on NSW Certificates
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/familyHistoryCertificates.htm

In NSW it is possible to purchase a transcription of certificates and the transcription is emailed to you.  A cheaper and quicker option than purchasing a certified certificate from NSW bdm
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 20 December 10 06:16 GMT (UK)
ooooo  I wish I could remember ... but I lived in Cronulla in 1950  I just must have been to the milk bar.... I remember the school and then having my tonsils out in the blue mountains...  uuuuhhm

xin :D
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Monday 20 December 10 06:47 GMT (UK)
Thanks cando... looks like the way I'll have to go, much appreciated.

xinia... Here's a link to what the shop looked like: http://ssec.org.au/joes-dream/index.htm

Cheers all,

Phil
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: Finley 1 on Monday 20 December 10 08:55 GMT (UK)
Oh my goodness.  that is definately me -- Mom and my sister going in for an ice cream...  ;D ;D :D

it does look familiar... lovely link thank you

xin
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: majm on Monday 20 December 10 09:45 GMT (UK)
Hi there,

1954 NSW Electoral Roll

2 The Kingsway, Cronulla   :)
Joseph Santamaria, proprietor
Marea Santamaria, home duties
Norma Santamaria home duties

Some thoughts  ;)
I haven't found Joseph or his mum (yes 1954 roll shows Marea) on earlier rolls, so I wonder if perhaps there's Naturalisation papers to find !  These would have birth dates, place of birth, and all the important details including arrival to Australia ...

perhaps National Archives of Australia  http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 20 December 10 11:05 GMT (UK)
If you check the NAA
you will see that his parents arrived on  the  GALILEO GALILEI in 1964
By his death notice he was born in 1914  so  he may have come here by himself and then brought his parents out.

I cannot see anything for Joseph  though

Jenn

Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Monday 20 December 10 12:01 GMT (UK)
Thanks JM...

That's Joe and the family and the address of the milk bar. I've just searched the NAA and can't really find anything on them there.

I did find an naturalisation application for a Giuseppe Santamaria of Paddington (I'm told they lived there) but this one is too old to be the Joe I'm researching, but maybe a relative.

Much appreciated,

Phil
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Monday 20 December 10 12:05 GMT (UK)
Hi Jenn,

Thank you - I have Maria Santamaria deceased in 1953 (newspaper notices from the National Library) so could not have come here in 1964 - yet she appears on the 1954 Electoral Roll as Marea.

Cheers

Phil
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: majm on Monday 20 December 10 12:14 GMT (UK)
Hi Phil,

There's passenger arrival into Brisbane (Qld) 11 Apr 1923 from Naples of Guiseppe Sante Maria (Sante !) aged 36, on Osterley.  His nationality "British" .... (could be British subject, ie born in Britain and/or in any of her dominions, including Australia, coming to OR returning to Australia!)

NSW ER 1943
201 Hargraves St Paddington :  Santa Maria surname:
Guiseppe, Male, fruiterer
Gaetano, Male, no occupation (frequently that seems to indicate an Old Age Pensioner)
Josie, saleswoman
Mary, home duties.

Do you think your Joseph may have been a member of that family?  

PS, being on the roll in 1954 doesn't mean she was living, it just means that the family may have not notified the Electoral office, most families don't notify the electoral office even today! 

Cheers,  JM
 

Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: cando on Monday 20 December 10 12:24 GMT (UK)
Deaths in NSW
1868/1943    
SANTAMARIA Gaetona
Father Guiseppe  Mother Guisetta
District Paddington

8667/1953    
SANTAMARIA  Maria
Father Guiseppe Garito  Mother Rosa
District Sutherland

Cando
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: majm on Monday 20 December 10 12:25 GMT (UK)
1937 NSW ER Same as 1943, all four at 201 Hargrave St Paddo... do you think Joe was Guiseppe  ;)  I think he could be.  Remember you needed to be 21 and over to be enrolled, so look who is missing from the 1930 roll

1930
163 Sutherland St, Paddo
Gaetano Santa Maria, Fruiterer
Mary Santa Maria, home duties

 :)

Cheers,  JM
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Monday 20 December 10 12:31 GMT (UK)
Thanks very much JM and cando...

I think Joe might well have been part of that family, all that info is great and I'll go back through the ER's and write it out so I can see more clearly where I'm at.

Best wishes

Phil
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: Dundee on Monday 20 December 10 15:44 GMT (UK)
Hi Phil,

When Gaetano SANTAMARIA died in 1943 (aged 77), his nephews' names are given as Joseph LOSCHIAVO of Boundary Street, and Vincent MORSILLO of Mill Hill Road, Waverley, and these would be Joe's cousins.

The MORSILLO nephew:

His Birth:
NSW
#92
1901
MORSILLO, VINCENT
VINCENT & JOSEPHINE
(SYDNEY)

His Marriage (blue additions from electoral rolls):
NSW
#19220
1928
MORSILLO, VINCENT JOSEPH, Motor Driver
YOUNG, ILMA PEARL
(WAVERLEY)

His Parents:
Marriage
NSW
#39
1900
MORSILLO, VINCENZO (VINCENT, Fruiterer)
SANTAMARIA, GUISEPPINA (JOSEPHINE)
(SYDNEY)

Death of Giuseppina/Josephine

#711
1944
MORSILLO, GUISEPPINA
GUISEPPI & GUISEPPA
(ASHFIELD)

I believe she would be the sister of Gaetano, so you would be looking for a pre 1900 arrival for her at least. There is quite a bit about the MORSILLO family in the newspapers and in the NAA.

The LOSCHIAVO nephew:

Marriage
#5383
1921
LOSCHIAVO, GIUSEPPE (JOSEPH, Bootmaker)
LOSCHIAVO, ANNETTINA (NETTY)
(SYDNEY)

These are a bit hard to work out, but I am guessing that his mother was probably also a SANTAMARIA.  If you have the patience, you can probably work out the relationship between them all.  From references on NAA, this Joseph was the inventor of the milk contraption, and the Joseph LOSCHIAVO who married Irene EGAN in 1935 is the one who has all of the music manuscripts on the site.  Some of the LOSCHIAVOs in NSW emigrated to WA as early as 1882.

Debra  :D

Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 20 December 10 19:54 GMT (UK)
If you check the NAA
you will see that his parents arrived on  the  GALILEO GALILEI in 1964
By his death notice he was born in 1914  so  he may have come here by himself and then brought his parents out.

I cannot see anything for Joseph  though

Jenn




Ah  never assume I made that fatal error ;)  interesting though  two people of  the same name  I was thinking they might have gone overseas for a holiday  but if  the death  that Cando has supploed for Maria is correct then it cannot be  the same couple.

However never assume  anything in genealogy  only certificates would prove or disprove any of our information as being coreevt

kind thoughts Jenn
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: cando on Monday 20 December 10 21:30 GMT (UK)
May be another coincidence :-\

Marriage in Victoria
SANTAMARIA Gaetano born Italy
FARITO Maria born Italy
1910  Reg#3754R

There are no births to this couple in Victoria to 1920 - extent of birth index.

Perhaps request a lookup in NSW for births to 1918.  A number of rootschatters have resources to assist you for this period.

Cheers
Cando


Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: cando on Monday 20 December 10 21:42 GMT (UK)
I think it is their marriage...there are two marriage regs in Vic one with surname GARITO and another with FARITO

Quote
Deaths in NSW
1868/1943   
SANTAMARIA Gaetona
Father Guiseppe  Mother Guisetta
District Paddington

8667/1953   
SANTAMARIA  Maria
Father Guiseppe Garito  Mother Rosa
District Sutherland

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: cando on Monday 20 December 10 21:45 GMT (UK)
Many SANTAMARIA passenger records on the Unassisted Passengers database
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=23

Many records could be return journeys to Australia.

Outward bound passengers from Melbourne
http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=42

Cheers
Cando
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 20 December 10 21:50 GMT (UK)
just adding in :D

reg no 13149/1945 
groom NICKOLAS  ALWYN CLIFFORD 
bride SANTAMARIA  MARY JOSEPHINE

By  the electoral rolls he was a school teacher.

He died in 1976 aged 60

She died in 2001 aged 87


Jenn
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Tuesday 21 December 10 03:41 GMT (UK)
Hi Dundee,

Thank you, majm, tropicalJ and cando for all your assistance - I'll take it all onboard and will have to put it all on paper and try to work out where they all fit, but it's very nice to have such help.

The name of the nephew rings a bell - "Billy" Morsillo was a good friend of Joe's and it was through him that Joe met and married my Auntie Norma.

You've all done so much and helped greatly, Merry Xmas

Phil  :)
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: ~MERLIN~ on Tuesday 21 December 10 05:46 GMT (UK)
May be another coincidence :-\

Marriage in Victoria
SANTAMARIA Gaetano born Italy
FARITO Maria born Italy
1910  Reg#3754R
There are no births to this couple in Victoria to 1920 - extent of birth index.

Perhaps request a lookup in NSW for births to 1918.  A number of rootschatters have resources to assist you for this period.


BIRTHS in NSW: (names as per index)

SANTAMARIA Giuseppi b. 1911 PADDINGTON #19593
Father: Gaetano
Mother: Meria

SANTAMARIA Maria G b. 1914 PADDINGTON #6730
Father: Gaetano
Mother: Meria
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Wednesday 22 December 10 00:31 GMT (UK)
Many thanks Merlin - much appreciated.

Phil
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: haselbury on Saturday 10 November 12 03:06 GMT (UK)
I have just came across your posts. Maria's Surname was Garito not Farito. Her Mother was Rosina Palmisano.
Title: Re: Joe SANTAMARIA - Joe's Milk Bar Cronulla
Post by: phillevo on Tuesday 13 November 12 22:49 GMT (UK)
Thanks a lot for your info, much appreciated.

Cheers

Phil