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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Midlothian => Topic started by: andarah on Wednesday 15 December 10 00:05 GMT (UK)
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I have a John Gordon, who was a customs officer. He married in St Nicholas, Aberdeen, in 1803. His first child was born in Aberdeen and the rest were born in either South or North Leith. He had a total of 5 children with his wife, Helen Young, from 1803 - 1818.
I know that both John Gordon and Helen Young died before 1858, and I cannot a record of them from 1855-1858.
I found a probate for a John Gordon, customs officer, in North Leith in 1844. I figured it had to be my guy and I bought the record. This John Gordon's wife was Elspet Green. I cannot find a marriage for this couple, but they had children 1825 - 1842. This John was in the 1841 census with an age of 45.
The 1841 census is notorius for being wrong. If my John Gordon married young in 1803, and his birthday was around 1886, then the 1841 census is out by 10 years - a stretch, but possible.
I cannot find a death for Helen Young. I cannot find the marriage with Elspet Green. I cannot find any reference to Helen Young/her children in any of the records I have for Elspet Green (future censuses for Elspet and John Gordon's will) and no references to Elspet Green among the children of John Gordon/Helen Young. I can only find the one John Gordon in the 1841 census, and I cannot find Helen Young. The youngest child of John/Helen would have been 23 in 1841, so it's not odd that none of them were living with John/Elspet.
Does anyone have any ideas for me to confirm if these John Gordons are the same John Gordon.
note: My John Gordon did not have a son named John Gordon - at least not that I can find.
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The 1841 census you found doesn't sound like the John who married 1803
John Gordon 45 born: Scotland Occupation: Customs Officer
Elspet Gordon 40 born: Scotland
George Gordon 17 born: Midlothian, Scotland
Elizabeth Gordon 13
Annie Gordon 11
Helen Gordon 9
Elspet Gordon 7
Katharine Gordon 5
Wilhelmina Gordon 2
Charles Green 25
Barbara MacKery 25 servant
What were the names of the children born to the 1803 John
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None of the children from the first marriage are with John/Elspet in 1841, but they would have been adults and it may not mean much.
Their names and ages were:
Elizabeth (1803)
Margaret (1808)
James (1811)
William (1815)
Ann (1818)
Margaret (1808)'s granddaughter was Williamena, and John/Elspet had a Williamena. This could be complete coicindence, but it was not a super common name.
I agree that it does not look like the John in the census (1796) is the same as my John who married in 1803. But, what are the chances of 2 John Gordons in the same time period in the same small town, who were both customs officers? Maybe if they were father/son, but I don't think these men were. The 1841 was often wrong by at least 5 years.
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There are a couple of possibles for Helen Gordon on the 1841 census including this one
Helen Gordon 60 born: Midlothian, Scotland Occupation: Ind
Helen Gordon 20 born: Midlothian, Scotland
Margt Gordon 25 born: Midlothian, Scotland
Ander Archibald 30
James Archibald 9
Ander Archibald 5
The other possibles are of the right age to have married in 1803 and living by independent means in the Lothians areas
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Had a look on the 1841 census for the surname Gordon and came across an Alexander born abt. 1811 and a Donald born abt. 1801 who were working in Excise.
It is possible that the John married 1803 had been married previously and the will you found was for his son from his first marriage.
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I had wondered if the John who died in 1844 was a son, but I couldn't make it work. Yes, he could have been from a previous marriage. I have a copy of the 1803 marriage, but it doesn't state if he was a bachelor.
As for the census you found for Helen Gordon, with Margaret Gordon, that isn't them. The Margaret Gordon, daughter of John/Helen, was married and living with her husband and children.
Thanks for looking at this!
I have looked a little further. It turns out I had the inventory for John Gordon's estate and I now have the will as well. He gave 100 pounds to each of his daughters, but doesn't name them. He lists his youngest son, Robert Green and his oldest son, Robert George. I know of a son named George Gordon, but not a Robert George Gordon. If this is the same John from the 1803 marriage, he had 2 older sons (but they could have died already, as I do not have a record of them in any census).
I also looked at burial records for Edinburgh in the time period of 1818 - 1825 and there were only 4 Gordon burials in the entire parish (there were over 3000 burials in the records). That would tell me that Gordon was not a common name in Edinburgh.
In the 1841 census John Gordon and Elspet lived less than 400 m from Margaret Gordon (daughter of John/Helen) - that's a coincidence too. He was at Janefield House on Easter Rd and she was at the Kirkgate.
I found John/Elspet's daughter, Elizabeth, visiting an Elizabeth Gordon in Moray in 1851 - that Elizabeth loosely fits for the daughter of John/Helen.
I would think that this is either the same man, or it's a son. I'll look at that angle - I hadn't thought of a marriage from before 1803.
Thanks for the ideas!
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Elspet was the mother of Robert Green Gordon (1842) - (Source IGI) which points to 1841 census John Gordon, Customs Officer, death 1844.
You doubt the possibility of two John Gordon's as Custom Officers however there is this record in the National Archives.
Recognition into death of John Gordon, Excise officer, Leven. 1812
Food for thought! What is the original source of the births? It is just that the IGI has them from ?members?.
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A John Gordon "Locker of the Customs at Leith" left an inventory (£5 from ScotlandsPeople) in 1834. There doesn't seem to be a testament to go with it. :-\
Nell
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The 1834 John is probably mine! Thanks!
I have a death cert for his daughter in 1858 and it says he was also a locker.
Thank you! I'll look at it.
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The 1834 death is my John Gordon. Thanks for your help!
I also found an inventory for his wife, Helen in June, 1841. It states that her alias was Young and she was the widow of John Gordon, locker of customs in Leith. Definitely her. No will.
Now I have to figure out if the 1844 death is related.
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Hi there,
The John Gordon who died in Leven, Fife in 1812 with the NAS archive precognition is mine, and not the Leith fellow, so there could have been at least three John Gordons in the excise department.
Mine seems to be from Aberdeenshire, in 1785 married Christian Barron in Mortlach, and is described as of Huntly. In 1878 he had a son Patrick in Ittingston, Huntly, then a big gap until he and Christian had Christian Jean in 1803 in Carnwath, Lanarkshire. By 1805 Christian has died, and he remarried Elizabeth Henderson of Leven.
In 1812 he got drunk while on duty serving summonses on illicit whisky makers in Fife, and seems to have been trying to extort free drinks from some of them! It appears from the precognition that he died due to bleeding in his brain, and had external injuries to his head and loin area, it was not determined who had assaulted him, so there was no trial or charges laid.
Regards, Stephanie