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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Gloucestershire => England => Gloucestershire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Carole in Dallas on Monday 13 December 10 23:28 GMT (UK)
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I was reading "Visitation of England and Wales", Notes Volume 7 Edited by Frederick Arthur Crisp and privately printed in 1907 researching one of my lines, Dowdeswell. On page 64, it states that Martha Blomer of Richared Blomer of Eastleach Martin, co. Gloucester, gent was bapt at Eastleach Martin 6 Oct 1575 and that she married there 17 April 1600 to Roger Dowdeswell of Pull Court in Bushley. I was inputting this info into my family tree when I was alerted that her son, Richard Dowdeswell, which I had input as having been bapt at Eastleach Martin 24 Feb 1600/1601, had been bapt after the marriage. Can someone help me with correcting this information that was provided in this visitation. Another question....what is the difference between visitation and heraldry?
Thanks EVER so much for all of your help over there in the UK. You are wonderful!!!
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A Visitation is an "inspection" of those using Armorial Bearings (Coats of Arms etc). The Visitation in the 16th & 17th centuries were official "inspections" by the Heralds of the College of Arms to check that those using Arms did so validly. The "visitation" by Mr Crisp has no such status.
In the case of the Dowdeswells, it appears that they were not "visited" and their use of Arms was not recorded. In heraldic terms their use over the following two hundred years was "unlawful". Thus in 1906 the Rev'd Edmund Richard Dowdeswell rectified that oversight by seeking a Grant of Arms. The Heralds, in these cases, tend not to grant the Arms as used "unlawfully" but something similar.
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Having delved a bit more, the Rev'd Dowdeswell died unmarried in 1915. The text of his Grant recorded in the Notes Volume 7 does not specify that the Arms should descend to anyone but his own descendants. On that basis he was the first & last bearer of (lawful) Arms.
Incidentally, his Estate was worth over £42,000 in 1916.
oOo
I have now added Dowdeswell to my online armorial:
Dowdeswell Arms (http://www.heraldry-online.org.uk/singletons/dowdeswell-arms.htm)
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Thanks ever so much. You are incredible....an entire book of information are you Stephen. Thanks ever so much! I have other names such as the Barrows of Wemore Manor and the Wyldes of the Commandery that also had a coat of arms. Wonder what has happened to all of those. And how does one reinstate 'legally' a coat of arms if a descendant dies with no issue?
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And how does one reinstate 'legally' a coat of arms if a descendant dies with no issue?
The short answer is you cannot. The Arms first follow the name and if that fails it then follows the wider bloodline (subject to the Laws of Heraldry). When there is neither, it generally ends*. However, if someone were to petition for new Arms they could commemorate a connection by incorporating some of the components from the ancestors Arms into their new Arms. In England that would have to be part of the negotiations/discussions with the Herald working on the Grant.
In the US you are not actually subject to the College of Arms or the Lyon Court - the possible exception being is if there is a claim to English or Scottish Arms.
* The subject of "Name & Arms" clauses in an armiger's will and/or Royal Licences are a major topic in themselves but are not relevant in the case of Dowdeswell.
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Dear Carole
Unless I've not read carefully, it seems that nobody has answered your original question.
Richard Dowdeswell was baptised in the church of St Michael and St Martin at Eastleach Martin, the home village of his mother, on what we would now call 24 February 1601. Under the calendar used in England at the time however, where the start of the year was on 25 March not 1 January, it was still 1600. So he arrived in the same calendar year as his parents' marriage, but a decent ten months later.
I'm descended from his younger brother William, a parson, but so far have found almost nothing on the ancestry of either of their parents, JOHN DOWDESWELL and MARTHA BLOMER. Is there anything you can share, perhaps?
Yours
Conan
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Cheery Hello Conan!
Thanks EVER so much for that information. My line descends from Richard. It was good to revisit this line following your note.
I have been volunteering helping others with their trees using ancestry.com. Also have been inputting burial information on findagrave.
Many times we help others when we our lines need some attention. Thanks for calling me back to the family tree!
You will have to let me know how you descend from William.
Lovely hearing from you!
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Assume you have used the records
Men in Armour for Gloucestershire 1608
http://www.coaley.net
'An on-line database containing information on occupation stature and age for nearly 20,000 men in Gloucestershire UK in 1608
which inc.
Eastleach Turville (Lechlade)
Where of William BLOOMER Esquire & Thomas CLOTERBROOKE Gentlemen are Lords
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Eastleach Martin (Lechlade)
Richard BLOMER Gentleman has one corset and one musket furnished
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Forest of Dean Family History
http://www.forest-of-dean.net/
(free to join, just register)
Searching : Gloucestershire Marriage Allegations 1637-1837 and Marriage Bonds 1730-1823
Quite a number of DOWDESWELL's inc
Record ID: 20466
14 November 1669
John DOWDESWELL aged 24, Bachelor, Gentleman, residence: BUSHLY, Worcestershire
Mary GRYMES aged 22, Spinster, residence: Norton ***
Marriage by: Licence
He signs
Event type: Marriage Allegation
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*** If you Google, Grymes of Norton, Gloucestershire
'Inventory of Anne COLLINS of Norton Gloucestershire 1665'
A true and perfect inventory of the goods and chattles of Anne COLLINS late of Norton in the County and Diocese of Gloucester Deceased.
Taken and prized by John GRYMES Richard HUSON the 6th day of Aprill in the year of our Lord 1665
Imprimis
Money upon bond and without spredally £46
Item her wearing apparrell, 1 gold ring, 1 trunk, & 1 little coffer £3
Sum: £39.
There is another Mary GRIMES aged 25 of Norton marrying William WINDOW a Gentleman and Batchelor of Gloucester City - around the same time i.e. 9 August 1669
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To Carole:
Lovely to hear from you!
Briefly, my Dowdeswell descent runs from Roger Dowdeswell (abt1570-1633) who in 1600 married Martha Blomer (1575-aft 1649). Their son the Reverend Dr William Dowdeswell (1609-1671) held various church posts and married Anne Coles (abt 1620-1680). Their son the Reverend William Dowdeswell (1654-1711) was rector of Kingham in Oxfordshire and in 1682 married Elizabeth Gibbard (1663-1734). Their son Richard Dowdeswell (1692-1730) went into business in London and in 1724 married Elizabeth Manship (1701-1733). Their daughter Anne Dowdeswell (1727-1777) in 1748 married John Manship (1726-1816), a wealthy businessman and landowner. Their daughter Anne Manship (1755-1779) eloped with and in 1772 married Simon Goodman Ewart (abt 1752-1812), a rich man's playboy son. And so down to me.
If you want to know more about any of these people and their families, do ask.
Conan
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To Capetown:
Thanks very much for the leads. I'll get digging!
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This is fascinating...ever so intriguing I must say!
Will get back into this line soon!
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?Do you search the National Archives - which shows records that are either held at County Offices or at the National Archives in London.
The National Archives
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/
Under the Heading: Discover The National Archives(or just Google)
Searching for: Blomere Gloucestershire - there are 44 hits (inc Wills, and quick look, shows the Will of William BLOMER of Hatherop 27 April 1613 held at the National Archives can be dowloaded for £3.45 (hopefully, not in Latin, as I've found some of my Ancestors earlier Wills were)
e.g.
Date: 1559-1674 (23 documents)
Manor of Eastleach Turville, messuages and lands in Eastleach, Coates, Lechlade, Maiseyhampton and Southrop (with licence to John BLOMER to hold his father's possessions, 1559)
Also search: DOWDESWELL, Worcestershire - 279 hits
Inc - Date: 1406-19th century held at Worcestershire Archives
Description: deeds and manorial records
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Again look at Men in Armour for Gloucestershire - there at
Meysey Hampton (Cirencester)
Where of Sir John HUNGERFORD Knight and Sir Giles FETIPLACE*** Knight and William BLOMERE Esquire are Lords
Cowley
Giles BLOMERE - Gentleman A40 (ages around 40) lower stature (fit to serve with a Caliver)
Hatherop (Cirencester)
the said William BLOMERE Esquire unable in body has one light horse and two corslets furnished
Where of William BLOMERE is Lord.
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Marriage Allegations for the diocese of Worcester also exist either at the records office or LDS Film
e.g.
Marriage Allegations Diocese of Worcester 1553-1645 (LDS Film 352601)
Marriage Bonds & Allegations 1553-1645 (LDS Film 352697)
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*** National Archives
Date: 1630-35 - Held by Staffordshire and Stoke-on-Trent Archives Services
Lord STAFFORD, a ward, v Phettiplace, (assume FETIPLACE) Goslett, Blomer and other freeholders.
Re: feudal incidents especially at Meseyhampton, Bodding etc. etc.
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The National Archives are extremely useful to see where documents are held - they also list Wills - from 1384 to 1858 held by the Prerogative Court of Canterbury ....
Dowdeswell, Worcestershire (60 in total) 15 from Worcestershire - most of which can be downloaded for £3.45 each.
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From the front page of the National Archives
Explore Our Records
Help with your Research
Find Guides
Family History
Wills 1384-1858
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and include
Examples of Wills (showing changes in handwriting) from various centuries including Jane Austen's
+ Related Guidance
Palaeography reading old handwriting
Beginners' Latin
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Not sure if you have these?
All from St Peter, Bushly, Worcestershire records on FreeREG
BAPTISMS;
KATHERYN Dowdeswell, 13 Dec 1602, Parents ROGER/MARTHA
Suertyes: Willyam Hytche, Anne Blower**, Ales Gelf.
ELIZABETH Dowdeswell, 3 April 1604, Parents ROGERT/MARTHA
JOHANE Dowdeswell, 20 July 1611, Parents ROGER/MARTHA,
Buried 5 Jan 1629/30, Joane, Daug of Roger/Martha
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All of you are terrific! Will work on this next week. Been helping a couple of individuals with their trees. Will get back to these soon.
Conan here is how I descend from Richard
Roger Dowdeswell (1560 - 1633)
9th great-grandfather
Richard Dowdeswell (1601 - 1673)
son of Roger Dowdeswell
Charles Dowdeswell (1634 - 1706)
son of Richard Dowdeswell
Charles Dowdeswell (1688 - 1714)
son of Charles Dowdeswell
Anne Dowdeswell (1712 - 1764)
daughter of Charles Dowdeswell
Reverent Charles Edmund Wylde (1732 - 1798)
son of Anne Dowdeswell
Reverent Robert Wylde (1774 - 1833)
son of Reverent Charles Edmund Wylde
Henry Ernest Wylde (1832 - 1881)
son of Reverent Robert Wylde
Elizabeth Barrow Wylde (1859 - 1887)
daughter of Henry Ernest Wylde
James Smith Haring 3rd (1887 - 1965)
son of Elizabeth Barrow Wylde
Elizabeth Barrow Haring (1921 - 2000)
daughter of James Smith Haring 3rd
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Hi Carole, I'm currently researching the Blomer family and have noticed that several sources state that Martha's father was Richard, whereas others give Giles Blomer.
BUSHLEY.
ANCIENT RECORDS OF "PULL "AND PULL COURT.
http://www.bushleyparisharchive.co.uk/Filename.ashx?systemFileName=BPCBAVA1881.pdf&origFilename=BPCBAVA1881.pdf
From the death of the last of the family of Columba I have found no mention of Pulle
until in 1531, when a lease of Pull Court for 99 years was granted by the Abbot of
Tewkesbury to Mr. Edward Tynedale, who was steward to the Abbot, and had some
years previously been appointed by the Crown as manager of the Crown property of
Berkeley. He was a man of substance, descended probably from an old knightly
family from the banks of the river Tyne. He married as his second wife, cir. 1539,
Johanna, the daughter of William Lawrance, of Sevenhampton, Esquire, and widow
of William Blomer, of Cowley, Esq. Her grandson, Giles Blomer (who died 1624),
was the father of Martha Blomer, who married Roger Dowdeswell about 1600, the
founder of the present family of the Dowdeswells of Pull Court.
While the bulk of the Pull Court property went to Thomas Tynedale, the eldest
son, the Oxeye fell to the share of Edward Tynedale, jun., a younger son, who granted
it to his half brother, William Blomer. It was thus inherited by Giles Blomer, who
sold it to his son-in-law, Roger Dowdeswell, in 1609, for ^456. In this way the Oxeye
became the first piece of land in Bushley possessed by the family of Dowdeswell.
We must not let the name of Tyndale pass without a word about that William
Tyndale, whose name, as the translator of the Bible into English, has become famous
in history.
Cheers, Mary
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Ancestry:
England & Wales, Prerogative Court of Canterbury Wills 1384-1858
(Seaching for Gloucestershire)
BLOMER
William - 20 June 1583 - Wythington
William - 26 April 1613 - Hathrupp, Gloucestershire (Hatherop)
Richard - 20 June 1621 - Botherrpp, Gloucestershire (Hatherop) Richardi BLOMER ***
Henry - 10 June 1624 - Hatheropp, Gloucestershire
John - 27 May 1639 - Hathernpp - Gloucestershire
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Richard BLOMER
Just trying to read this Will, Clear, but old writing
Can see children Martha (fforfin? ? money) Ann and Kathryn
However, on Page 2 he talks about his Sonnes in Law - and what possibly appears to be Roger DOWDESWELL?
Roger DOWDESWELL is mentioned a number of times as is George DOWDEWELL **
Sons: William & John
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Ancestry: Canterbury Wills
George DONESWELL/DOWDESWELL/GEORGY DONDESWELL
Burley/Bushley, Worcestershire
Roger Dowdeswell signature is very clear at the top of Page 3 of Richard BLOOMER's Will
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Many thanks for the information.
I've had a look at the 1621 Will of Richard Blomer and he definitely has a daughter Martha and a son in law Roger Dowdeswell so Martha's father was not Giles but Richard. There are several sources which give Giles but they are obviously incorrect.
I'm not sure at this stage who the father of Richard was. William Blomer's Will 1613 names a Richard Blomer but as his brother. I need to go back and have another look. It is very difficult trying to read this old writing.
Thanks again
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Held at Gloucestershire Archives (amongst other items)
BLOMERS FARM alias BOTHERUPP FARM, part of the Manor of Eastleach Martin
Reference: D936/E/70
Date: 1680-1775
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On GenesReunited - there is
Wilts and Gloucestershire Standard Newspaper -29 December 1883
her father's will in January 1616.7 and their eldest son, Richard DOWDESWELL, was baptised at Est-Laide Martin, 24 February 1600-1. Richard BLOMER, her father, was only of son John BLOMER lord of the manor of Hatherop, Co. Gloucester by Alice.hie
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By Googling: and oUnder Cirencester Wills :1551 -1560 - John TURNER of Cirencester - lists of his debts due upon records: include, Mr BLOMER, 43s and Alice BLOMER 39s.
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Historic England Article ... says.... about the Manor of Hatherop
John BLOMER (d1558)
John's Son, William BLOMER (d1613) may have built the Castle not along after he inherited Hatherop
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Hi again and Thank you so much for all this information on the Blomer family.
I am now going through the process of putting it all together. Thankfully there are several Wills which I believe are the most accurate source of information. I just wish they weren't so difficult to read!
Regards