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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: tricky tree on Saturday 11 December 10 10:46 GMT (UK)

Title: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: tricky tree on Saturday 11 December 10 10:46 GMT (UK)
I am trying to clear a mystery up,involving Florence Lettice Knight and her parents,she was born 8 August 1879 at Westmoreland Road Newington,her parents were given as Arthur Knight and Lettice White,the problem being i have marriage certificate for Lettice White to Robert White at Islington registry office on 15 Oct.1870,i found them on 1871 census down as lodgers Lettices birth place correct,on 1881 census i have Arthur and Lettice with daughter Florrie,Arthurs age makes his year of birth about four years after that of Robert on 1871 census,both give place of birth as Reigate,i have a family of Thomas Knight at Reigate with two sons Robert and Arthur whose ages match my two,i have a death certificate forb a Robert Knight 9 November 1871 at Islington and checking 1871 census my Robert Knight is only one in Islington and age on death certificate matches,but informant is not Lettice.To further complicate things on marriage certificate,Florence gives father as Robert Knight deceased,Lettice re-married to James Jory in 1899 and i have found them on 1901 census,but cannot find Lettice on 1911 census or a death registration and James Jory is on 1911 census but not as widow
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: cath151 on Saturday 11 December 10 13:12 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Have had a little look and it is confusing. Do you know where Lettice was in 1891, I can t find her.
She is on the 1911 indexed as Lettice Joey living with a relative.
Best wishes
 Cathy
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: danuslave on Saturday 11 December 10 13:20 GMT (UK)
Looking at the various sources I would be inclined to go with the idea that Robert & Arthur were the brothers born in Reigate - at least until something turns up to disprove it!

There's a Letty White listed in 1861 - RG9/126/104/16 with parents James & Sarah.  Does that fit with what you know already?

In 1871 Arthur was in Marylebone and unmarried

If Robert died in November 1871, it was illegal for Lettice to marry his brother, so it's possible they just lived together as man & wife.

The informant on his death certificate doesn't have to be his wife.  Does it give a relationship, and does the name mean anything to you?

You said that Florence's parents are given as Arthur Knight and Lettice White.  Is this correct?  I would have expected Lettice to be listed as Knight (from her marriage to Robert)

I think there is a strong possibility that you have the right people, but that they were a little economical with the truth  :)

Linda

PS for cath151

Quote

She is on the 1911 indexed as Lettice Joey living with a relative


Not necessarily 'living with' - she could just have been staying there on the night of the census.  This would fit with James (and Lettice) showing as Married
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: tricky tree on Saturday 11 December 10 13:24 GMT (UK)
On birth certificate mother is given as Lettice Knight formerly White,her parents were James and Sarah White.On 1881 census she is down as Arthur Knights wife
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: tricky tree on Saturday 11 December 10 13:26 GMT (UK)
I couldn`t find her on 1911 census,which relative is she living with,one of her husbands or her own
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 11 December 10 13:27 GMT (UK)
Do you have any clues as to the whereabouts of any of them in 1891 - they do seem to have completely vanished

Milly
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 11 December 10 13:33 GMT (UK)
It seems very odd that Florence would put Robert as father on marriage certificate when her birth cert has Arthur. (It is not as though there was a need to hide her real father as the birth cert has already admitted it)
What is the occupation of deceased Robert on the marriage cert? And do any addresses match anything?  I presume it is the correct one?

Milly
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: tricky tree on Saturday 11 December 10 13:34 GMT (UK)
I can`t find any of them in 1891,i have looked for Arthur,Lettice,Florence and Lettie,there is a Florence born right year,but not the right one.i thought they might have been living in Scotland or Wales,but to my knowledge all of fathers relatives were in Reigate or London and mothers in London,except for one sister,who emmigrated to New Zealand with husband and children and i think that was later than 1891
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: tricky tree on Saturday 11 December 10 13:38 GMT (UK)
On birth certificate Arthur is given as architects clerk,on marriage certificate Robert given as architect,this i have discounted,on 1871 census Robert is down as builders clerk if i remember right,The birth certificate matches full name on marriage certificate and age on marriage certificate fits with birth in 1879 and its the only Florence Lettice i could find,even then Lettice was not a common name
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: cath151 on Saturday 11 December 10 13:41 GMT (UK)
Hi,
Its definately JOEY , I think  she probably had an Aunt named Susan Hobson, and of course , i should have said she was in the same residence at the time of the census.
 Best wishes
 Cathy :)
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 11 December 10 14:06 GMT (UK)
I have looked into this Susan Hobson and I think she is a Jory relative rather than the Knight or White side which is a bit unhelpful.

In 1891  at 83, Falmouth Road, Newington
HOBSON, Susan Head Widow age 50 (1841) b Richmond
TIFF, Elizabeth - Sister -  Single age 58 (1833)  b Surrey
HOBSON, Catherine -  Sister -  Single age 57 (1834) b London

RG12/353/42/24   

I think Catherine should really be sister-in-law
I think Elizabeth Tiff should really be Elizabeth Trigg....and that Trigg was Susan's maiden name

There is a possible marriage here for Trigg and Hobson
Marriages Sep 1857  Kensington  1a 232
The four names listed are:
Hobson  George Hine       
Ryan  Mary       
Tobin  Maurice         
Trigg  Susan         


   
In 1871 - Elizabeth is un-married and living with a Jory.
 
TRIGG, Elizabeth Head age 40 (1831) b  Surrey   unmarried
TATE, Ann Ellen Visitor  age 23 (1848) b  Yorkshire    unmarried
WILDING, Charlotte Servant  age 16 (1855) b  Essex   unmarried
JORY, Mary Jane Visitor  age 38 (1833) b  Surrey  widow
 
 RG10/33/58/20   
 Kensington Place, Kensington, London
 
I did find Susan Hobson in 1901 - but lost it again momentarily!

Milly :)
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 11 December 10 14:11 GMT (UK)
Here is Susan in 1881 with husband George - and the sister-in-law Catherine.
1881 - Susan with husband George
   
HOBSON, George      - Head -  Married age 44 (1837) Commercial Traveller (Provision)
HOBSON, Susan        - Wife  -  Married age 44 (1837) b Richmond
HOBSON, Catherine  - Sister - Single    age 47 (1834)
 
 RG11/535/47/26   
 Address 83, Falmouth Rd, Newington 

And in 1901
Susan (widow) is living with Catherine (single) - still at 83 Falmouth Rd
RG13/372/125/19   


Milly :)
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: tricky tree on Saturday 11 December 10 14:14 GMT (UK)
If she is related to James Jory it doesn`t help much,he gives his birth place as Kensington,but i think Jory is a Cornish name
Title: Re: Florence Lettice Knight
Post by: millymcb on Saturday 11 December 10 14:21 GMT (UK)
No - it certainly doesn't help trace back her previous husband(s). But at least you found her.

Milly :)