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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: eita on Thursday 09 December 10 16:33 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Can anybody help me find where my Gt.Gt. Grandad William Robert or Roberts Wyatt came from in Cornwall??? he was born approx. 1840 in Cornwall, and was a Builder.
I have a tree on Ancestry and recieved contact from a gentleman who believed that William was the older brother of his relative Joseph, and that he also had another brother called Solomon and that they were the children of a John and Sophia Wyatt, John died young and Sophia bought the children up alone. There are census returns in Cornwall and Wales which would make this seem right.
But...... then the problem comes, in 1864 aged 24, he married my Gt.Gt.Grandmother Susan Bunyan in Marylebone, London and on the marriage certificate it states his father was also William Robert Wyatt, and also a Builder, as was my Gt. Grandfather Charles Wyatt.
I've also got another query in that his grandaughter Eliza Elizabeth (Auntie Lizzie, to me) married Henry Edward Hardy who's Grandmother was Esther Mary Wyatt born in 1837 Lands End Cornwall, she married in Westminster London in 1855, aged 18 yrs.
I can remember my Nan telling me that Auntie Lizzie married a cousin of the family, so could Esther have been Williams Sister????
I have looked through what records I can find online in Cornwall and can find none with a William and an Esther or with a father William R (or Robert) Wyatt, not all records have him as William Robert(s) Wyatt either.
Please if you can help in any way, I would really appreciate it, and 'Thank You' for reading this garbled message.
Best Wishes Eita
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Hi
Firstly - never trust anybody else's version of your FH - always do your own research - others can be "sloppy"
If I have the right 1871 entry (and I think I have - see below)- he was not b in Cornwall
1871 for Marylebone London. All children b Marylebone
William Wyatt 30 bricklayer b Bath
Susan 30 flower maker b St Giles Middlesex
Alice 4
William 3
Charles 1
RG10 Piece 173 Folio 67 Page 35
Living in the households before William and Susan were 2 Bunyan families - John (occ drover) & Susan - both 50 and Thomas 28 plus wife Isabella
The 1881 is free to search at http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=census/search_census.asp
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I notice that the 1864 marriage entry shows Susan's father as John Bunyan occ drover and William jnr was a bricklayer so no doubt it's the right 1871 entry
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Now - here's the complication
The 1881 census shows William & Susan both b St Giles Cornwall
1891 just shows William as b Cornwall and Susan St Giles Middlesex
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I was just going to post that too Carole ;D
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Another problem is his birthyear
Marriage 1864 - aged 24 - birthyear 1840
1871 - 30 - 1841
1881 - 39 - 1842
1891 - 46 - 1845
1901 - 56 - 1845 - birthplace still just Cornwall
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The 1861 with mother Sophia shows William b St Blazey was an iron foundry labourer - I would have expected to see him as a bricklayer or similar given his age at that time
Extracted IGI entry
WILLIAM WHIATE Christening: 13 MAY 1840 Saint Blazey, Cornwall
Father: JOHN WHIATE Mother: SOPHIA
In 1851 they are transcribed as Whyatt - William is aged 12 occ labourer
So you can write that family off as being his parents given his father is shown as William on the 1864 marriage cert
There is an 1851 entry for a William WYETT b Polruan approx 1839 living with unmarried mother Elizabeth
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I've also got another query in that his grandaughter Eliza Elizabeth (Auntie Lizzie, to me) married Henry Edward Hardy who's Grandmother was Esther Mary Wyatt born in 1837 Lands End Cornwall, she married in Westminster London in 1855, aged 18 yrs.
I can remember my Nan telling me that Auntie Lizzie married a cousin of the family, so could Esther have been Williams Sister?
She certainly could
Marriage entry for 2.7.1855 shows father as William Robert Wyatt bricklayer
Witnesses were Mary Ann Wyatt and M Wyatt
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IGI entry
ESTHER MARY WYATT Christening: 07 AUG 1836 Saint Austell, Cornwall
Father: WILLIAM WYATT Mother: MARY
1855 marriage shows her as Esther Mary
JOHN GOODFELLOW WYATT Birth: 28 MAY 1834 Christening: 07 AUG 1836 Saint Austell, Cornwall Father: WILLIAM WYATT Mother: MARY
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Hi Carol and Carole,
Thanks for the replies,ALL those census returns are the right ones as the children all tally and I have all their birth certificates.
You can see how confused I was getting with his age varying so much and the Bath birthplace threw me completely for a while but I decided to concentrate on the names and ages of wife and children, I did always have doubts about Sophia/John as his parents , as I thought that he would have had some mention of building worker or labouring.
Also was confused about the St.Giles, Cornwall for them both but Susan was born/living in St.Giles area of London, so I believe her to be from London,
But William nearly always appears as Cornwall, or Bath, I wondered if he may have had work there and it was put down on that particular Census.
Thats the first time CaroleW that I've seen anything relating to Esther Mary other than her Marriage Certificate. And her Dad is a William, and there is another brother, this tallies to stories my Nan told me, as she said her Grandad (William) and his brothers( so I think there must have been at least one more) had a building firm in Marylebone, and owned quite a few houses which were let out, and the brothers took turns in rent collecting, also my Nans dad, Charles, and his brothers were all builders , plasterers, and painters and presumably their cousins.
What does confuse me is if they are all in London , at least Esther and William were, why I can't find a death certificate for their Dad William Roberts Wyatt in either London or Cornwall.
18 was quite young for Esther to have been in London to get married , it would seem that maybe the family moved here, or at least some of them at quite a young age, I would presume she knew her husband for a while before marriage and their Dad isn't down as deceased on the marriage certificates.
Another, silly little thing, after his wife Susan died, William remarried and had another daughter called....Esther Mary, this was one of the reasons, (tenuous, I know) that I thought the first Esther Mary could be his sister.
I think I had better remove Sophia and her sons from my tree, on Ancestry.
Do you know how best to go about finding Cornish records?, being in London, it seems miles away, and to be honest I really have no idea where to begin, as I really don't have much to go on,do I?
I don't even really know where in Cornwall to look, though from the records you have sent for Esther and John, St.Austell seems a good start!!!!
I can't thank you enough for the help you have given me , at least I now know who's not his family, would be grateful for any pointers you may have!
Take care both of you and thanks again eita
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this is a good starting point for records in Cornwall. It's not complete by any means, but very useful.
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/personsearchdb.php
Have a look at the Cornwall resources board as well.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/board,338.0.html
baptisms of children
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=972485&dbtype=baptisms&formval=
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=972486&dbtype=baptisms&formval=
& of father
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=1539837&dbtype=baptisms&formval=
this marriage looks to account for the Roberts middle name
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=458286&dbtype=marriages&formval=
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Hello Osprey,
Thank you for those links , I've had a quick nose through some of them and using the other information you gave me, seem to have found 5 siblings of the first William Roberts Wyatt, my 3x Grandad, obviously I'll look into it closer, but I'm getting quite excited after all this time of getting no where!!!!!
So good of you, all help is much appreciated, Thank you so much, eita
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think this is Ann Wyatt in 1841
Mount Charles Village, St Austell HO107/146/4 folio 30 pg 10
William Clemes 9
Joseph 7
Ann 4
Mary 3
Ann Whyatt 70
all born in county
the missing parents are Joseph & Jane
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=972160&dbtype=baptisms&formval=
their marriage in 1824
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=459254&dbtype=marriages&formval=
the opc site for St Austell may very well come in handy
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~staustell/index.htm
Ann's burial
http://www.cornwall-opc-database.org/moreinfo.php?ID=715180&dbtype=burials&formval=
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Thanks again Osprey, your brilliant at this, aren't you?
Feel a bit of a nincompoop, but your help is really appreciated, I wouldn't have found all this information in a month of Sundays!!!!!!
Its all so interesting too, totally different to the research I've been doing on the Midlands side of my family, not that that isn't interesting but its different.
Many Thanks again, and I will have a look at the Cornish resources board , too!
Take care, eita
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I found this death on freebmd but can't say for sure whether it's the right person
Deaths December qtr 1868
William Robert Wyatt aged 67 Bath 5c 430
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Hi CaroleW,
Thanks for that, one way to find out I'll send off for the certificate.
Seems a coincidence that Bath came up on one of the censuses and then that death turns up, a 10 year discrepency in age but to be honest, there seems to be a lot of that, and unless I send off for it I won't know if its Gt.Gt.Gt.Grandad or not will I?
If it is there should be some information on it that hopefully I can tally in somewhere, if it isn't? Well, it wouldn't be the first time, I've got the wrong certificate!
Can't thank you and osprey and the other Carol enough for all this help, have had a look at the St. Austell links, Osprey sent me, and am getting a lot further than I have in the last couple of years, think I'm a bit thick, on the quiet!!!!
As I said before any help is gratefully recieved, Thank you so much all of you!!!!!!
Go careful everyone, best wishes eita
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Hi everyone,
Thanks for the help, I've been looking around and have now found a parish marriage record for William Roberts Wyatt to a Mary Hodson on 10th of Sept. 1832 in LONDON!!!!!!!!!!
Could this be my William Roberts Wyatt's (1840) Mum and Dad, if so why would they marry in London and have the children in Cornwall?????
Would like to hear your thoughts???
Could he have been working in London, met and married her and whisked her off to Cornwall to live happily ever after or am I being an old romantic?????
Thanks eita
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Hi
Well - so we now have the parents marrying in London as well as at least 2 of their children - interesting!!
We need William & Mary on the 1851 census either in Cornwall or in London to get their birthplaces
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Hi CaroleW,
Ok, I'll have a look see if I can find them, i tried 1841, but no luck ,will try 1851.
thanks for still being there, eita
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Hi Carole,
It's likely, not him as I've found a birth of a William Robert Wyatt in 1805 in Marylebone, parents John and Mary.
But I have found a marriage for John Goodfellow Wyatt, my William's brother, who is also down as a bricklayer, to a Jane Hodgson on 13 Feb 1854, both were minors,and Father William Roberts Wyatt/Bricklayer. So the children I know of at the moment ( that you found for me) were all married in London!!!
Can't find the first William Roberts Wyatt and wife Mary on any censuses at the moment though? strange?
eita
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Hi
I looked earlier in both Cornwall and Middlesex but couldn't find anything either - so that's 3 children all b Cornwall but all married in London
In view of the children's ages, I would have expected to at least find them on the 1841
I've searched the 1851 just on est** b 1836 +- 2yrs birthplace Cornwall and just on John and William in the same way - no surname - and there is no match
In 1841 - I figured they must have been in Cornwall as William jnr was b 1840/1/2 but still can't find them
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Hi carole,
May possibly have found an 1841 Census return for the whole family, though the writing isn't too great as it looks as if its been rewritten over afterwards......probably faded with time.
Its 1841 Hartcliffe & Bedminster Somerset
Wiiliam Wyatt 30 Mason
Mary 30
John 7
Ester 5
Mary 3
Ellen 8 mths ( did wonder if this might be William, (Wllm) and poor writing has made it look like
Ellen or perhaps its just wishful thinking)
It has stated 'Not' born in that County for them, this may tie in with the death you found in Bath, and why William 1840, sometimes has Bath as birthplace.
Maybe the mother comes from Somerset , could this be why William and Mary's marriage isn't in Cornwall records???? Do you think???
Sorry I keep bothering you with this, but they just seem to disappear between 1841 (if thats them) and getting married in London in the mid 1850's.
Also wanted to ask if William 1810 and his brother and his Dad, John, were all Masons, would this mean that they belonged to the Masons?????
Only I was reading on one of the links that St.Austell had quite a strong Masonic tie and wondered if perhaps that might be a line of enquiry???
Again many Thanks eita
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Hi Eita,
I'd spotted that family in Bedminster as well, but can't spot them later. Mary & Ellen both show as born in county. Ellen looks like Ellen on the original and age is in the female column. If the mother was from Somerset, it would show 'Y' for her, but it shows 'N'. 1841 entries were written in pencil by the enumerator, so can look 'faded'.
Don't confuse masons (bricklayers and the like) with Masonic & Freemasonry - there is no connection.
Have you checked out any visiting relatives from the census entries for William & Esther or any others you can find? I see that there's an uncle called Charles Harris aged 62 born Bath with Esther & family in 1881.
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forgot to say that there are possible St Austell baptisms for 2 of the other people in the 1841 household - Samuel Daniel & Stephen Trestrail. ref HO107/376/3 folio 6 pg 7.
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Hi Osprey,
Will look for the Uncle Harris , I believe he's on a census with William and Susan , too!
I think the first William 1810 may have another brother as there appears to be a Thomas born to John and Ann, baptised the same time as William in St.Austell, possibly......... a twin???? Though not necessarily, eh!
Sorry about that, the N and Y's all looked much the same to me, but I see what you mean, and I thought the Masons thing was a bit off but if you don't ask???????
Shame that census almost fits the bill. I'll have a look at the 2 names you have mentioned, see who they are, Thanks a lot eita
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it could be that the 2 boys were baptised on the smae day, but weren't twins. I seem to remember a bit of a gap in the family baptisms.
Sorry, Charles was with William & Susan in 1181, not Esther & Charles.
Do you have any of the marriage certs for Esther, John Goodfellow or William? If so, are addresses given on them? Are there any helpful witness names?
I've just been having a look for John G's wife Jane in 1851 in case the Wyatts were nearby & came across this entry, which could just be a coicidence.
10 Mitcham St, Marylebone HO107/1490 folio 102 pg 13
Jane Wyatt head widow 68 infant school mistress b. Somerset, Bath
Jane Hoghson grand dau 14 house servant b. Marylebone.
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Hi Osprey
The marriages of Esther, John & William jnr were all in London so no clues there unfortunately (details in earlier replies)
I notice there is a 21yr old William Wyatt also with William & Mary on the 1841 census - occ also mason - not b in county. Can't be a brother with the same age
We know that the children John & Esther were b Cornwall but Ellen & Mary are newcomers
The absence of William junior from the 1841 would support the thought that he was born between 1842 - 1845
Marriage 1864 - aged 24 - birthyear 1840
The witnesses on Esthers marriage cert were Mary Ann Wyatt and M Wyatt
1871 - 30 - 1841
1881 - 39 - 1842
1891 - 46 - 1845
1901 - 56 - 1845 - birthplace still just Cornwall
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Hi Osprey and CaroleW,
Well, I've had a look through the marriage certificates:
Esther and Charles Paddington 1855, both have same address Star str. witnesses are M or W Wyatt and Mary Ann Wyatt .
John and Jane Paddington 1854, again same address Bouverie Str. witnesses are M Wyatt and Mary Porter.
William and Susan St.Marylebone 1864, William living Harford or Hereford Str. and Susan living in Charles Str. witnesses George and Julia King.
Now I've also found, don't know if its relevent but may be missing Mary, as her Father is down as William Robert Wyatt Bricklayer and on 1861 Census is down as being born in St.Austell.
Mary Ann Wyatt and John Edward James (but on 1861 down as Eames) married St.Pancras 12/9/1858
Mary Ann living in Loxton Str. and John at Brook place, witnesses Arthur Ricketts and Elizabeth Aberdeen.
I thought the other William Wyatt 21, may be a cousin as they all seemed to give children the same names then, after family members.
There's also the baptism records of William Roberts Wyatt and Thomas Wyatt in St.Austell, with John and Ann as parents, too, so thats 4 born in Cornwall. This Mary Ann is down as St.Austell Cornwall on the census too, and no sign of an Ellen and I've found no other records for Thomas either.
So I'm getting very confused!!!, unless, there are 2 William Roberts/Robert Wyatts who are both bricklayers, living in the same area of London, both from Cornwall, I suppose its feasible, do you think?????
I shall carry on trying to check some of these people out , find out if this Mary is Married to Mr.James or Mr.Eames, and anything else I can.
Thanks again eita
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:) Sorry confusing myself now Thomas is brother of first Wiliam Roberts not 2nd, but still no sign, anyway, carry on regardless, you never know might get a breakthrough.
ohh! Mary Ann appears to have been born around 1838.
Get back to my search eita
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GRO ref for Mary Ann Wyatt's 1859 marriage shows the groom as John Edwards Eames sept qtr 1859 Pancras vol 1b pg 204. Their daughter was registered as
Sarah Selina Annie Eames march qtr 1861 Pancras vol 1b pg 11
I've had a look for Wyatts in Star Street & Bouverie St in 1851 with no success. Off for a wander down Hereford St.
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John G Wyatt was in Hereford St in 1861 with wife Jane, so perhaps William was living with his brother.