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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: DPT on Tuesday 07 December 10 17:44 GMT (UK)

Title: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: DPT on Tuesday 07 December 10 17:44 GMT (UK)
Hi there - I know nothing about my Grandfather, Robert 'Bertie' Todd but am trying to start building up a profile of his life - any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

What I can tell you is this: He was born in Northern Ireland around 1919 and moved to Scotland where his family settled in Auchinlech. He was a very good piper and joined the Scots Guards, where he became Boxing champion. he was in the 2nd Battalion and fought in WWII. I know nothing about his service as he did not tell anyone about his experiences. What I do know is that he was captured in the Black Forest by the Germans and held as a POW in Stalag 9.

When he got back to UK he married Julia Sweeny (my Nan) and they settled in Gosport. He worked for the Police and also as a foreman on the docks. he was a hard man with a fierce reputation.

This is as much as i know - not an awful lot but any advice, tips, information anyone can help with would be greatly appreciated.


Many Thanks.
DPT
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 07 December 10 17:46 GMT (UK)
What sort of information are you looking for? (and bear in mind that most recent stuff will not be online)
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: DPT on Tuesday 07 December 10 17:51 GMT (UK)
it would be great to confirm where he fought in WWII, if it's true that he was held in Stalag 9, was he champion boxer, did he get any commendations for the action he saw, when did he get back to the UK after the war. Outside shot that someone may remember him too?!

Basic stuff as I have nothing to go on.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: aghadowey on Tuesday 07 December 10 18:39 GMT (UK)
Then I'll move this thread to World War II board and someone should be able to tell you what records might exist, how to get them, etc.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 07 December 10 20:20 GMT (UK)
Do you know his exact date of birth and his date of marriage?           was he in France with the BEF   in 1940?
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ScouseBoy on Tuesday 07 December 10 20:25 GMT (UK)
A suggestion for you.   Find out whether there is a Maritime Museum   in Gosport or nearby.       They may have comprehensive  port records and archives  at that museum.    Ask to see the  Port Authority personnel records (ledgers)     and try to search for his name.               Was he a civilian in the Royal Navy dockyard?
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: DPT on Tuesday 07 December 10 22:25 GMT (UK)
Aghadowey - thanks for that
Scouseboy - Found out that an uncle has his death certificate so I am in process fo trying to obtain a copy. I should be able to get date of marriage from uncle too.

Not sure who the BEF are, the digging I've done on 2nd Battalion scots guards movements in WWII have shown they got about. N.Africa, Sicily, Monte Casino and the North East Europe towards end of War. He was captured in Germany, not sure when?

I have also downloaded the relevant forms from MOD website in a bid to obtain his full service records

He was a civilian in Gosport, I believe involved in the building works that were going on around the dock area - again need to seek clarification from uncle, assuming he knows.

Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ScouseBoy on Wednesday 08 December 10 09:04 GMT (UK)
Can you just confirm the name,   Would they be the Royal Scots   or the Royal Scots Fusileers?
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: IMBER on Wednesday 08 December 10 10:43 GMT (UK)
I'm not an expert but the Black Forest strikes me as a little out of the way for a British soldier to be captured.  Having said that strange things happened in wartime. Reichswald Forest seems more likely, although rather late on in the war.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ADM199 on Wednesday 08 December 10 13:22 GMT (UK)
The only two POW Listed in 1945 as with Scottish Regimental connections are
2925961 R Todd Camerons and 2883933 R B Gordon Hldrs.

The only one for the Scots Guards is a J Todd
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: DPT on Wednesday 08 December 10 20:36 GMT (UK)
Thanks for the feedback everyone - I certainly need to double check some of the information I have as it doesn't seem to corroborate with what some of you are suggesting. I guess this is quite normal when information is passed on from different family members and over such long periods of time.

ADM199 your post is interesting as it's the first 'real potential' details of a possible ID - where did you manage to obtain this? Are the numbers the soldiers ID numbers or a seperate POW number given to them when captured? Bertie's middle name was John, so whether this was used to replace his first name of Robert, I do not know?

Scouseboy - thanks for coming back again - he was definitely Scots Guards.

IMBER - Thanks, I will verify this again as it's quite possible the info I have is wrong.

This certainly gets the adrenalin going - I will update with any new info - thanks for your help....keep it coming!

Many Thanks.
DPT
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ADM199 on Thursday 09 December 10 09:40 GMT (UK)
The Nos. are Service Nos.  Both were in Stalag 20B. POW Nos.    R  1062   and   R B 17716

2699488 Gdsm. J Todd was in Stalag 344 No. 33169

The information comes from official records.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: DPT on Thursday 09 December 10 12:03 GMT (UK)
ADM199 - Thanks for the info, it's much appreciated.

Is there anything registered for 1944 for POW's from the Scots Guards?

Would his service records include time spent as a POW?

Thanks again.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ADM199 on Thursday 09 December 10 12:27 GMT (UK)
Everything is just the same for all three in September 1944.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: DPT on Wednesday 16 February 11 16:13 GMT (UK)
[ADM199 - I have new info on my Grandad from his military records which I now have - he was reported missing on 14.5.1945. He was also confirmed as a POW on the same day.

His Military Number was 2698817 and he was a Lance Sergeant with 3rd Battalion Scots Guards.

The records show him 'Rejoined (Escaped POW)' on 9.5.1945

So only a short stint as a POW.

Any chance you can look at this? Anything you can clarify would be great.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ADM199 on Wednesday 16 February 11 17:12 GMT (UK)
Doubt if he was even Registered with the Red Cross as a POW.
Probably not enough time.
Not too unusual to have been reported as taken POW after escape in these sort of cases.

As I said in the PM the best place to look would probably be in the War Diary for May 1945.
Title: Re: Robert 'Bertie' Todd - 2nd Battalion Scots Guards
Post by: ScouseBoy on Thursday 17 February 11 22:13 GMT (UK)
[ADM199 - I have new info on my Grandad from his military records which I now have - he was reported missing on 14.5.1945. He was also confirmed as a POW on the same day.

His Military Number was 2698817 and he was a Lance Sergeant with 3rd Battalion Scots Guards.

The records show him 'Rejoined (Escaped POW)' on 9.5.1945

So only a short stint as a POW.

Any chance you can look at this? Anything you can clarify would be great.
Are you sure about those dates?   Are they really MAY 1945.   The war was over  on or about the 8th May 1945.    But probably chaos   was the order of the day particularly with the German admin system.