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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Ruskie on Tuesday 07 December 10 11:36 GMT (UK)
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As we've just started Page 20 of Part 8 and the diary is nearing it's end, (and sadly I will be going away on the 11th) I have decided to start this next, and most likely our last thread on the subject, a little earlier than usual.
Links to everything:
Part 1:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,457330.0.html
Part 2:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,459757.0.html
On page one of Part 2 is a recap of our discoveries and a timeline.
Part 3:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,464660.0.html
Part 4:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,469736.0.html
Part 5:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,472362.0.html
Part 6:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,474726.0.html
Part 7:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,482661.0.html
Part 8:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,490635.0.html
And Nathaniel's Diary:
http://www.westminster.gov.uk/services/libraries/archives/victorian-clerk/
I must say how much I've enjoyed this journey with Nathaniel and all of the rootschatters who've contributed. I really feel very sad that the diary is coming to the end. I think we've all done extremely well to find out so much about Nathaniel, his family, and others who inhabited his world. Thanks to all rootschatters who read and helped in the search - what an amazing and determined bunch of people you all are. It has been a wonderful and educational journey which I will really miss.
Added bonuses were the help we received from Westminster Archives Volunteer Mongibello, and the thrill of meeting Steven and his mother, Nathaniel's direct descendants. I'm sure we'll all be keen to pitch in with any help that Westminster Archives needs with it's publication of the diary in book form.
And finally I would like to thank the Rootschat administration who've allowed us to continue our obsession here and turned a blind eye when we sometimes veered off topic. We couldn't have done it without you.
It would be wonderful if we could continue our search for more descendants and I'm still hoping to unearth a photograph of our very extraordinary friend Nathaniel Bryceson.
We definitely won't forget you. :-*
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Thanks again Ruskie for co-ordinating this wonderful discussion. I read today's entry after returning home from ordering my own coal for the Christmas!
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Ruskie, I add my thanks to Steven's, it's been a great read over the last few months, a great shame that it's near the end. I hope like others do, that another diary may be found and serialised sometime in the future.
Steven, it's been lovely to meet you and your mother and to take part in a second hand way, in your own travels in Nat's footsteps.
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Thanks indeed Ruskie. If the diary does get published I will try to make sure that they acknowledge the work of this group.
One question- will this whole thread be left up for a while? Or will they take it down fairly soon.
Back to the diary.... I think Nat is using the word "But" as we would use only. "I was only in as a witness"
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I read today's entry after returning home from ordering my own coal for the Christmas!
:o Yet another parallel with Nathaniel's life. :)
If the diary does get published I will try to make sure that they acknowledge the work of this group.
One question- will this whole thread be left up for a while? Or will they take it down fairly soon.
Back to the diary.... I think Nat is using the word "But" as we would use only. "I was only in as a witness"
That's how I read it too.
These threads will never be removed. :) Anyone searching the name "Nathaniel Bryceson" via google in the future will come across our rootschat discussions. Please let Westminster Archives know that if they require any assistance with the book, I (and probably everyone else here) will be happy to help or offer suggestions. And of course I'd love to buy a copy when it's published. :)
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NO diary entries for 8th, 9th and 10th of December ... :'(
How can you do this to us Nathaniel?
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Yeah looks like there'll only be two more entries left, as the 12th is definitely the last day :( Also I guess there's no reason to expect some kind of big finale of an entry on the 12th since since Nat (apparently) mentions on that day that he's already bought the next blank diary. So presumably he just continued in that one as if there was no break and therefore no need for some big summing-up of the year gone.
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The last entry will be a Saturday for Nat, so a bit of a damp squib way out. We wont get the usual long sunday entry. It will prob just say "bought new diary for use tomorrow", and thats it.
One thing ive considred that is a bit of a shame, is that Nat was very interested in inscriptions and gravestones. Nat is buried in a difficult to access, overgrown place, and his marker isnt readable. I
If anyone wanted to place a small brass plaque(sp?) (if thats allowed?) on the grave, then I would be willing to contribute to a fund. Even though its likely no one is going to see it, we would know it was there. The 100th anniversary of his passing next year would be a good time.
But likely we would have all forgotten by then......?
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Unless there is something whacky with my PC, part 9 isnt coming up in the post index.... just part 8 is listed.
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These threads will never be removed. :) Anyone searching the name "Nathaniel Bryceson" via google in the future will come across our rootschat discussions. ...
I see Part 8 is still in the Lighter Side. May I vote for having it moved back? If there are any mods watching could this situation be reviewed please?
On the subject of a memorial, perhaps a well placed carving of Nats initials somewhere.
Paul
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Maybe a plaque wouldn't be allowed as judging by the photos and what Steven and Mongibello said about the condition of the stone, it probabaly wouldn't be advisable (or allowed?)to or attach anything to it. However maybe some kind of free standing marker would be allowed.
Considering that many of us are non-UK residents it might be difficult to organise a fund for contributions. But it's a really nice idea and it would be worth doing on the 100th anniversary of his death next year. As well as the Nathaniel memorial walks there could be pilgramages to see his grave. :)
It would be lovely if the moderators could put part 8 back into the Common Room. I just had a horrible thought regarding Mongibello's question about these threads. I think posts on "The Lighter Side" WILL disappear eventually - so one of our threads will be lost forever.
It would be wonderful if all the threads could stay in the "Common Room" so they can easily be found by descendants or Nathaniel Bryceson fans. Some of our research might even be useful for Westminster Archives when they put the book together. We did do a lot of digging behind the scenes and it would be a shame if it was lost.
So please ... rootschat powers that be ... will you consider moving Part 8 back to the Common Room so the threads can stay together? (*)
(*) Moderator Comment: Nothing will be deleted, whether it is in the Common Room
or the Lighter Side, but I've now moved Part 8 back to the Common Room. :)
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I'd like to see part 8 back in the common room too - I think there was some bits of information on there that are worth keeping, and it would be a shame if all the threads weren't all in one place ... Like having a missing volume out of a set of 9, you'd always wonder what was in the missing one!
I think the diary is just going to peter out isn't it?
Carole
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I was hoping it'd go out on a bang, but sadly I don't think it will. :-\
Is Nathaniel bored with his diary?
Is nothing happening in his life worth wriiting about?
Is he too busy to write?
:'(
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Hi everyone
I am so sad this is going to end! :'( :'(
I wonder if we could place a marker on Richmond Buildings.... "Nat woz 'ere!" ;D ;D
deb :)
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it probabaly wouldn't be advisable (or allowed?)to or attach anything to it. However maybe some kind of free standing marker would be allowed.
I wasnt suggesting something be added to the stone, and a seperate marker was the suggestion.
Im not putting myself forwards as a fund raiser, but it would be possible via on line charity fundraiser sites (justgiving) (possibly) or by a simple paypal account.
Nat would like the initials idea :)
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I wonder if we could place a marker on Richmond Buildings.... "Nat woz 'ere!" ;D ;D
deb :)
Hi Deb. Maybe something to fill the void would be if we can work to get a plaque put up on Richmond Buildings. ;) I don't think he'd be entitled to a Blue Plaque but there are others a little less prestigious.
Nat would like the initials idea :)
I Reckon Nat would carve his initials into his own gravestone with his trusty pen knife. ;D
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It would be wonderful if all the threads could stay in the "Common Room" so they can easily be found by descendants or Nathaniel Bryceson fans. Some of our research might even be useful for Westminster Archives when they put the book together. We did do a lot of digging behind the scenes and it would be a shame if it was lost.
So please ... rootschat powers that be ... will you consider moving Part 8 back to the Common Room so the threads can stay together?
This is the reason I asked the question. I want to make sure all the research is available if & when the book is prepared. I am currently trying to put it into a usable form as I am sure that none of the Archives staff will have the time to do it.
Incidentally do not expect too much of the last couple of days. I seem to remember that they were rather mixed up with the original writing in the book.
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I've just be notified that The Diary, part 8 Has been moved back to the Common Room......
Thanks Belin-Bob!!! :) :)
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I've just be notified that The Diary, part 8 Has been moved back to the Common Room......
Thanks Belin-Bob!!! :) :)
Thanks for letting us know Deb. And THANK YOU Berlin Bob! It's really good of you to do that and it's very much appreciated!
Mongibello, I think we anticipate that Nat will be going out with a whimper which is quite deflating but I'm sure if could see into the future and knew how many people were hanging on his every word, then he'd have made a huge effort for us (and erase all the sections he wrote in shorthand ;) )
[Mongibello, from Saturday PM (your Saturday AM :)) I will be away till after Christmas but please send me an email or PM if you need any help extracting the useful bits from our discussions). We already have a couple of timeline/summaries, which I can't remember if I have already sent you or not. Let me know if you'd like them. :)]
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I think I have found most of the stuff and I am in process of putting it into a family history program so the Archivists can use it.
Look out on the Westminster Archives website as they have something planned for the new year. It seems to be something along the lines of what happened in Westminster on each day of the year in history. More when I hear from them. They have some other diaries but from what I have seen of them they are not as interesing as NB's.
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Thanks for the tip Mongibello and I'll definitely check the WA website.
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I'm not having much luck with today's entry. The first part about the death of Mr Brice McGregor sounds as if it has been lifted straight from a newspaper obituary and the Filkins' first born has eluded me completely.
Snow came to London much earlier in 2010 than it did in 1846!
Carole
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Bozier's Court looks like a fascinating street that I hadn't heard of previously. There's a whole page of info here (http://www.victorianlondon.org/districts/tottenhamcourtroad.htm), including this photo:
(http://www.victorianlondon.org/districts/tottenhamcourtroad.gif)
Bozier's Court is the side street on the left formed by the block of buildings in the middle of Tottenham Court Road.
If you compare it with the same view more recently:
(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2490/3969907486_d459a8f2c6.jpg)
You can see that the demolition of the central block has completely wiped out Bozier's Court altogether. Although the building on the left of the photo on the corner of Oxford St / Tottenham Court Road seems to have survived more or less unchanged. Since the second photo was taken the Horseshoe Hotel on the right of both pics has since sadly been knocked down and replaced by something utterly nondescript.
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Great Photos Drykid....
The article describes it as "ugly" ... I don't think so at all.
Also ...the building "is on the confines of no less than three parishes - St. Marylebone, St. Pancras, and St. Giles-in-the-Fields" .... Maybe that was it's purpose...to be the "marker" for the beginning of each Parish.
I wonder if it was the first building built and the others were built around it?
Quite fascinating ... I love old buildings!
deb
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Hi Carole
There is a George Filkins baptised March 1st 1840 (born 11 Feb) son of WILLIAM and Eliza, 11 Water street, Father WILLIAM = COAL PORTER
can't see any deaths for Dec q 1846 :-\
deb
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Death - 1846 - Oct/Nov/Dec - Westminster St Margaret.
Brice McGregor
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What a cliff-hanger! Typical for a clerk: 'Carried forward'! ::) ;D
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Interesting though that the 1847 diary was written in an oversized journal too (at least according to today's entry.) I think it was speculated before that it's possible that the 1846 one may have been the only one to survive because it was more elaborately bound than the others. But from today's entry that wouldn't necessarily appear to be the case.
Anyway, that's that then... but I've truly enjoyed following the diary. And also the discussion and painstaking research on here also, even though I discovered it a little late. Thanks to everyone, but thanks most of all to Nat himself :)
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Well he gave us a couple of substantial entries to finish off, rather than his one liners, so thanks Nat! and also to all posters on these threads, I've enjoyed reading them as much as I have the diaries. Been good to "meet" you all.
Mary
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Oh well ....
Lets hope that any other diaries have survived and will turn up eventually. One blogger I follow is a bookseller who basically deals in books that have reached the " is there any monetary value in them or should they be pulped ?" stage and he finds all kinds of extraordinary stuff, some of it quite valuable and important. I'm still hoping that the C18th century diary of Richard Hayes of Cobham is still out there waiting to be found. It was last heard of in Gravesend around 1900 and might have been lost in a fire - although that isn't at all certain.
Carole
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This is from the WA website.
A date with history
A visual celebration of life in Westminster through the ages
What was happening on this day in Westminster 50 years ago, 100, or even 200 years ago? Experience our historic City through the celebrations, disasters, traditions and changes witnessed by Londoners past and present over the last 3 centuries...
We have selected some of the most fascinating, thought-provoking, entertaining and poignant images from Westminster Archives Centre's extensive image collections.
Discover the cause of the Macclesfield Bridge disaster
Marvel at the exploits of Victorian variety performers in the West End
Be moved by the images of London under fire in the darkest days of the Blitz
Make a date for 1 January 2011 and join us for this wonderful journey through Westminster's history.
Visit this page each day throughout the year to get a fresh glimpse of London as it used to be!
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I can't believe that we have come to the end.
It has been a wonderful experience ...I've loved every minute.
Thanks Nat for sharing a little of your life :)
Bye Ann Fox :'(
deb
Thanks Mongibello, I shall follow the WA website..... It sounds fascinating.
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Thanks to everyone here from me too. It's been a great ride, and I'm so glad I discovered Nat and his life in 1846. It's been wry and amusing, affecting and sad, sometimes a bit grim and horrible, with a little bit of sex thrown in for good measure, but always, always fascinating. I'll miss you Nat (and of course Ann Fox)... but what happened next?
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Hello,
Did you all see Jim's final farewell to Nathaniel, with a tribute to this forum, on our blog?
See http://wp.me/pYKzC-wq
All the best to you all,
Ali at Westminster Libraries & Archives
PS The 'Date with History' project looks great, doesn't it?
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PS I should also have said - please feel free to leave comments on the blog - we'd love to hear from you!
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Hi Ali
Thanks so much for the link ... It's wonderful! :)
Thanks Jim :)
deb
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Hello all ;D
I'm typing this on an iPad, so please excuse all typos etc. as Im not used to how it works. :-\
I am so so sad that this day has come. Im glad Nat finished with a couple of decent entries, but disappointingly nothing more about Ann or his family.
Drykid, there is some info about Boziers court earlier in our discussions. It does look a fascinating place.
Im very interested in the new WA project and I may actually have the chance to get to Westminster Archives in the next day or two would you all believe?!?! I'm in London! Dust off that diary!
I hope to pop in one day during my brief visit.
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oooo RUSKIE ...you lucky thing :D :D
Please post photos if you can ... maybe you could meet up with Stephen and Mongibello!!!!!!!!!!!
deb ...who wants to live vicariously through Ruskie ;D ;D
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Ruskie: Let me know when you are going to visit the Archives. I will be there all day today (Wed 15th). If you do visit this afternoon there is a bit of a party going on so please gatecrash! The only time I cannot be there is Thursday morning.
Looking forward to meeting you.
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There's an invitation you shouldn't refuse. Hope you have a great time in London.
Mary
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You will all be pleased to know that Ruskie visited the Archives today and had a chance to look at the diary. Later we walked up to Richmond Buildings.
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;D
I saw it! ;D
I didn't see Mongibello's message prior to setting out to Westminster Abbey for my tourist fix, on Wednesday morning but coincidentally arrived at Westminster archives in the afternoon just in time for a glass of wine which was great timing.I was prepared to have to beg to be allowed to enter the building and worried that I may have to make an appointment to see the diary. But everyone knew who I was and I was welcomed warmly and given the star treatment and ushered upstairs to see The Diary. It was all very exciting and a little overwhelming. Mongibello kindly showed me around the archives and then we took a brisk walk in the rain up to Richmond Buildings. It looked just as it did on google maps. ;) Today I popped to Stephen Street, but disappointingly it seems to only consist of modern buildings, though there are some nice old buildings behind this called Stephen Mews.
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I'm having trouble with working out the finer points of using this iPad. I hadn't finished what I wanted to say. Many thanks to Mongibello and all the lovely people at WA for making me fell so welcome. I was really taken aback by everyone's kindness. :)
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One thing I did find fascinating was how Nathaniel managed to squeeze his diary in between sums and other bits and pieces in this ledger book, some of which were dated 1799 and 1801! Very interesting to see nat's writing which looks so beautiful and neat for the first couple of entries, but after that gets messier with tiny little bits of faded scrawly writing. My hat goes off to everyone who has 'translated' the diary. It must have been a very difficult task.
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I think seeing the diary will have been the highlight of your trip to the UK!
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I think seeing the diary will have been the highlight of your trip to the UK!
Most definitely! ;D
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh Ruskie
How wonderful to see the "Real Thing" .... I am so glad you had a great time.... !!!!! I am speechless ...and a little weepy! I was in London in March but had not yet found Nat and his diary!
Can't wait for your update and hopefully some photo's with you and the Diary!
Take care ...safe travels
deb :)
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Have missed Rc for the last while, as real life has been keeping me very busy! Ruskie, I am delighted you saw the diary. What a great way to finish your journey! Amazing to have walked by Richmond buildings. :) :D ;D
Thanks for starting this thread so long ago...it most certainly was a great journey. Great meeting everyon too :)
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I thought you might like to see these.
Left to right: Ruskie, Adrian, Judith, Alison & the bloke who looks like a tramp on the right is yours truly. Photo by courtesy of Mrs Mongibello
Also one with Ruskie & THE DIARY
Happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year to you all
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How lovely to be able to put faces to names :)
I had no idea that the diary was in such a poor state - its a wonder that it has survived!
Carole
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Great photos!!! :)
Thank you, Mrs Mongibello
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Thank you so much for the photos. Sorry haven't been on till now - been pretty poorly with a chest infection !
So sad to see the diary finished ! Yesterday I closed the tab I had open to check the diary every day - it was very final !
It has been great to meet you all and hope that our paths will cross (in the rootschat world) again
Hope you all have a good Christmas and a Happy New Year.
Nesta
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Ruskie!! That is just brilliant and a fitting end to a great story!!
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I had no idea that the diary was in such a poor state - its a wonder that it has survived!
Yeah I was a bit shocked by that too. It looks like remounting each page is the only thing that's stopped it from detoriating completely. If the other volumes detoriated in the same way (which is likely if they were kept together) then I have to say I'm less hopeful than I was about others having survived. The tattier the condition the more likely it is that someone will have just binned them as old rubbish :( Also I thought only odd bits here and there were missing from the transcription, but if the pages in that photo are typical then it looks like whole chunks have been lost at the margins. So maybe the transcription is less complete than I assumed it was.
Also I meant to say sooner that I thought Jim's blog was a thoughtful summing up the publishing of the diary and the interest it generated. Thanks for that :)
And yes, it's fitting that the discussion on here started with Ruskie and ends with her seeing the diary for herself :)
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Thank you for the photographs, especially showing the condition of the diary, the transcribers must really have had a hard time publishing it, I'm just glad they know their efforts are appreciated. Lucky Ruskie getting to see it first hand.
Happy Christmas to everyone.
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Hello to everyone. I am safely home now and just about recovered from the shocking jet lag. I really hate flying ...
:-[ about the image of myself :P. I'm definitely not photogenic ( ;)) and usually go to any lengths to avoid appearing in and consequently ruining anyone's group photograph. :P
I am so happy to have seen the diary. I think it was a fitting finale for me to see it.
I was invited by Mongibello to go along to visit Nathaniel's grave but sadly as well as the adverse weather in London in the days following my visit to WA, I had some family matters to attend to and unfortunately I was unable to take up his kind offer. (I'm sure this was a relief Jim, as I'm sure you didn't really fancy driving on those icy roads and trecking through that overgrown graveyard in the snow ;)).
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As a postscript, I took this photo the other day of the Strand Union Workhouse, the place where Granny Sheppard died. Today it is all over the papers as it is to be pulled down and various people think it was the prototype of the workhouse in Oliver Twist as Dickens lived at No. 22 Cleveland Street. There is a campaign to save it.
Not a very good photo - too early in the morning.
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Thanks for posting this Jim. There is a petition going around to save it. I signed it ages ago not realising that it was the Strand Union Workhouse. I'll sign to save any old buildings. ;)
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That looks very much like the (now demolished) Barnet workhouse, which later became part of Barnet General Hospital.
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Relevent to the Bunyan theme
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12528822
PS : Nathaniel, how soon you were forgotten :(
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hi Steve
Not forgotten ...just tucked away in the back of our minds! :D
thanks for the link
deb
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PS : Nathaniel, how soon you were forgotten :(
Not at all Steve.
I was thinking about Nathaniel today when I found the business card Mongibello gave me on my visit to Westminster Archives.
I was thinking about Nathaniel on Sunday due to a mention in our local paper of a B&B in Dean Street.
I was thinking about Nathaniel on Saturday when I remembered that I must ask my daughter to change my desktop picture to a page of Nathaniel's diary - from a photo I took, using her camera, while at Westminster Archives.
I have spent weeks transcribing a WW2 diary and every day while doing that I thought of Nathaniel and his diary.
I am reading Westminster Archives "A Date with History" and when I do I think of Nathaniel and the exciting search we had last year.
I think about him every day when I power up my PC and see all the Nathaniel related folders on my desktop.
There are many more times I have thought about Nathaniel, often with a bit of sadness actually - maybe because there is so much more I want to know about his life and times, but there is nothing more to be found.
Thank you for the Bunhill Fields link Steve. ;) It is uplifting to know that some things are being saved. Lets hope it is well cared for.
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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12549330
Update to Mongibello's strand union workhouse (Where granny shepard died) story
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There was a petition going in the Common room a few days ago regarding this workhouse.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,514457.0.html
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I signed the petition in the early days, and in the last week or two received emails requesting more signatures. The close proximity of Dickens home was a fairly recent discovery which strengthens the case.
Little do they know that it was also the place of death of Poor Old Granny Shepard - yet another reason to save it! ;D
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Hello to all Nathaniel fans. ;D
I am still periodically dipping into this topic and trying to fill in some of the gaps we still have. My main obsessions have been to located Mary Bryceson in the 1841 census, and to find Matthew Ward in the 1851 census (or his death). Still no luck. :(
I have had poor Mongibello and the staff at the Westminster Archives chasing around for a death/burial which I suspected was our Uncle John Shepperd, but they were unable to track him down. In the end I purchased the death certificate:
17th Jan 1868
6 Douglas Street
John Shepperd
male
64 years
Stone Sawyer
cause of death : Diarrhoea 5 weeks certified
Informant: X the mark of Jane Sulch or Lulch (?) present at the death, 6 Douglas Street Westminster.
So definitely our Uncle John - he is even at the same address as he was in the 1861 census.
I just thought some of you may be interested. ;D I'll post agin with any updates.
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I still think about Nat so it's nice to know a few of the unanswered questions are being answered - 5 weeks of diarrhoea doesn't sound very nice :( I wonder what it was - cholera ? (would they have put that as cause of death on the certificate?) or some kind of what they would have called food poisoning? The Victorians didn't know about any of the bacterial infections that cause gastroenteritis and anyway had no ABs to treat it.
Carole
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I'm sure we all still think very fondly of Nat. :-*
I also wondered about poor Uncle John too Carole. I have a d/c for ancestor of my OH who died in 1854 and her cause of death was "Asiatic Cholera 23 hours", but I'm not sure if they were always so specific. (she left 8 children and her husband remarried exactly eight weeks to the day after her death :().
I'm not sure John died of Cholera as I think it strikes a lot quicker as per my example. Sounds dreadful doesn't it especially with the lack of 'facilities' available at the time. :-\
I was considering buying Mary's (Nat's mother) d/c, but although we know her date of burial:
29 Oct 1847, St Anne, Soho, Mary Ward, Richmond Buildings, age 50
there are two possible deaths:
Both deaths Dec 1/4 1847,
Ward Mary,
either St Pancras 1/328
OR Marylebone 1/152 :-\ Looking at where the deaths are registered if someone can narrow down which would be the most likely, I may (have to) buy it. ;)
There is also Granny Shepard's death, but due to her age I expect her cause of death will be age related and maybe vague so I'm not sure I would bother to purchase that:
20th Nov 1851
Parish of St Pancras
Mary Shepard buried, age 80,
abode: Infirmary
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5 weeks of diarrhoea doesn't sound very nice :( I wonder what it was - cholera ? (would they have put that as cause of death on the certificate?) or some kind of what they would have called food poisoning?
Carole
A blockage in the back passage can cause diarrhoea, so possibly colon cancer or something similar. Alternatively, possibly something like Crohn's Disease, which can strike between ages 50-70.
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I have just discoved that there is to be a talk about Nathaniel Bryceson. The following is from the Westminster Achives website:
The life and loves of a Victorian Clerk: an illustrated talk
Monday 12 November, 6.30pm at Maida Vale Library
In 2010, Westminster City Archives published the extraordinary diary of a Victorian teenager, Nathaniel Bryceson.
Brimming with fascinating details of his working life in London and of his relationship with his mistress Ann Fox, the journal is a truly personal take on the life of a young Victorian Londoner as he embarks upon adulthood.
Come and hear our Local Studies Librarian share entertaining and insightful stories from the diary at Maida Vale Library. The talk will be illustrated with images from the collections of Westminster City Archives.
Free event. No booking required
Contact archives@westminster.gov.uk or maidavalelibrary@westminster.gov.uk for more information
So if any of you are local, you may be interested in popping along.
I would LOVE to go, but it is not physically possible I'm afraid.
If anyone does go, could you please pop back to this thread and let us know how it was. And, while you are there, please ask when the book is coming out. ;D
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I would LOVE to go too.... :-\
Hi Ruskie :D
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Hi Deb! ;D
How much fun would that talk be? We could probably give them a run for their money though, with our 'intimate' knowledge on Nat.
It would be wonderful if a rootschat representative went along. I hope someone can make it. Maybe Mongibello? ;)
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Oh My Ruskie ...we would have so much fun!!!!!
We never did find out what happened to Ann Fox ... it was great finding her though!
I think one day I may read through all our posts again! I think we all went to bed and woke up thinking about them! It was a great search.
deb
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Reading Nat's diary has set me on the path of reading other diaries (I have purchased several), but I have such a soft spot for Nat and he is still my favourite.
I think some of us became quite obsessed with him (didn't we Deb? ;)) and the characters in his life. Ann will probably forever remain a mystery which is such a shame - there's not much I wouldn't do to find out more about her. I have re-read the diary and our posts since the diary finished, but I've been thinking about re-reading again. I'm sure we must have missed quite a lot of things. Maybe one day I will start a "Nathaniel Bryceson revisited" post.
And Nat's other diaries are still at large. What a thrill it would be if another one turned up. ;D I am still hoping. And if anyone can work out which of those Mary Ward deaths is 'our' Mary, then I will be happy to purchase the d/c. ;)
I really hope that one of the rootschatters can make it to the talk on the 12th to represent us. If circumstances were only slightly different I would be on a plane tomorrow. ;D
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Hi Ruskie,
I have been rereading the diary …now I’m all involved again LOL ;D
Mary Shephard was b June 27th 1797 and baptized July 23rd 1797 , St Pancras Old Church, d/o John and Mary.
Matthew Ward was living in Richmond buildings in 1841, just before they married.
A Mary Ward of Richmond Buildings was buried at St Anne Soho, 29 October 1847 aged 50 ( found by Siamese girl aka Carole, in part 1 :) )
This was in Westminster.
I think we all think that this is “our” Mary … age and abode fit!
These are Mary Ward’s (dying in Oct/Nov/Dec q1847), their reg districts;
Oct 1847 - St James Westminster,
Oct 1847 – Marylebone
Oct 1847 – Pancras
Oct 1847 - Holbron
Then going to the London Burial index;
Mary Ward, Richmond buildings, age 50 ..as above St Anne Soho … Westminster RD
A Mary Ward of 43 Eagle Street, b 1807, buried 28 Dec 1847, Queens Sq, St George The Martyr, Camden …...Holbron RD?
A Mary Ward of new Milman Street, Guilford St, b 1781, bur 12 Dec 1847, Gray’s Inn Rd, Holy Trinity, Camden ….. St Pancras RD?
I’m looking for a fourth Mary Ward’s burial to correspond to the death index: No luck yet
I would think that this is Mary:
Death reg
Mary Ward, Oct 1847
St James Westminster
Vol 1 p 113
What do you think?
deb :)
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Deb, these are the two I narrowed it down to, but looking at your finds and logic, I think I may be wrong:
29 Oct 1847, St Anne, Soho, Mary Ward, Richmond Buildings, age 50
there are two possible deaths:
Both deaths Dec 1/4 1847,
Ward Mary,
either St Pancras 1/328
OR Marylebone 1/152
I find the registration districts a tad confusing, but if anyone can support your Westminster theory, I'm happy to go with that one. Also, even though she was buried in St Anne Soho, might she have died in an infirmary (or elsewhere) rather than at home? In this case might she have been registered in another district? :-\
I'm not really sure, but I think your theory fits well Deb. :)
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Hi Ruskie
I am also not up on the RDs of London so I googled LOL ..this is what I found regarding the London Burials that I posted.
St George the Martyr Holborn is an Anglican church located at the south end of Queen Square, Holborn, in the London Borough of Camden.
Here's a list of nearly 50 district churches and chapels associated with and lying within the boundaries of the civil parish and borough of St Pancras; includes :Holy Trinity, Grays Inn Rd, Cem. Chap. – 1838
I also read somewhere that it fell under Holborn after 1839 ...I'm hoping someone has more info than I do.
St Anne's Soho [Westminster], the church of, is situated on the south of Dean Street, Soho, near the lower end towards Gerard Street; and the church yard reaches from Dean Street on the east to Princes Street on the west
Regarding the death reg of Mary Ward ; ST JAMES, Westminster ... google reveals:
St James: It corresponded to the western portion of the contemporary district of Soho, the eastern part of Mayfair and the northern part of St James's.To the north the boundary was along Oxford Street with St Marylebone, to the east it had a boundary with St Anne, Soho running along Berwick Street and Rupert Street. To the south there was a boundary with St Martin in the Fields, roughly along Pall Mall
As I said before ... I'm not up on London areas so hopefully someone can correct me if I'm wrong. 8) In 1841 St Anne Soho's RD was Strand, Westminster ...so now I'm not sure about anything. :-\
Ruskie ...when I was searching yesterday I saw a burial where abode stated 'infirmary' ...I am thinking that our Mary most probably died at home, hopefully with her family around!
Deb
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Hi Deb. I was just about to sign off when I saw your post. I think the evidence is pointing towards you being correct regarding the St James death being our Mary. Even if we don't get any confirmation (or otherwise) on the likelihood of this death being correct within the next week, I will go ahead and order the certificate. :)
I have got a few things on at the moment but I should have some free time next week to get back into it. ;D I want to re read the diary and all of our posts. I'm sure we must be able to fill in some more gaps if we put our heads together.
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Woo hoo !! I have really missed Nat - all I needed was a good excuse to re-read it......
Can I join you ?
Nesta
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;D ...Hi Nesta ...Of course you can !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
How fun!
I was searching for Ann again yesterday...I wonder if she is the Ann Fox, Bible woman, in Essex in 1861?
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thank you
N
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Oh yes do join us Nesta - the more the merrier!
Unfortunately, I haven't got time at the moment to do this search justice, but go ahead Deb please and I will catch up next week. Of course I will dip in and out of the thread.
One thing in particular that has always bugged me was being unable to locate Matthew Ward in the 1851 census .... or perhaps a death?
After re-reading the diary and the threads we might need to get together a list of what we still need to find, otherwise we might find ourselves looking for something that has already been found .... but on the other hand, it might be worthwhile to go over some of the searches we tried before but did not have any luck with.
Deb and anyone else who is interested .... do you think I should start a new thread rather than tacking the new search on the end of Part 9?
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I was searching for Ann again yesterday...I wonder if she is the Ann Fox, Bible woman, in Essex in 1861?
Um, I haven't checked this on the census, but not sure if that fits with what we know about Ann. ;) Mind you, I'm not sure what a "bible woman" is/was and how we can interpret that as an occupation as written by the enumerator. :-\ (Maybe she realised the error of her ways and turned to religion? ;))
Does anyone remember if Ann was a regular churchgoer?
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Hi Ruskie
I think it would be a good idea to start a new thread .........
N
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Thanks Nesta.
New thread here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=622788.new#new
Please continue the discussions on the new thread.