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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Mentalcal on Monday 06 December 10 22:13 GMT (UK)
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Hiya!!
I'm looking for any pictures, maps or information on a cocoa room 17 Great George Place Liverpool, could possibly be called Bermingham Dining Room. The proprietor was William Henry Blythe in 1901 and William Greenwood in 1911 who was Williams Son in Law!!
Many Thanks!!
Cal
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Not the same one, but there is a cocoa place here:
http://inacityliving.piczo.com/?g=44922707&cr=7
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Awww Thankyou so much... some of those pics are of the slums my family were from... bless em!! :)
Still tryin to find this damn Bermingham Room though!!! :(
Luv
XCX
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In the city's Licensing Report Book dated 1909 there are two pubs/inns or whatever in Gt George Place, at No 1 and No 33, so it is unlikely that the Bermingham was licensed.
A
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Oooo... thats interesting!! :) Its not in the Gores Directories either... but apparently it did exist but I can't find pics or maps to even show the shape of the road as there is presently only 1 standing building and can't understand the numbering as the existing place is only short!! :(
Luv
XCX
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This is the only building left and its number 3-4 but only space for a few more buildings each side so can't work out where old road went!! :(
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In the city's Licensing Report Book dated 1909 there are two pubs/inns or whatever in Gt George Place, at No 1 and No 33, so it is unlikely that the Bermingham was licensed.
Not surprising, if it's anything like the cocoa room in the photo I linked to above, which says: 'a carter can be seen afront the Cocoa Rooms which were set up by the Temperance Society as an alternative to the ruins of alcohol[/b]'
I'd have to check, but I think that the Quakers may have set up similar places in Birmingham ~ eg Cadburys.
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It is listed in Gores 1901 under Cocoa Rooms so prob would have been similar!! :) Just someone in records office said they had seen a pic of 'the Bermingham Dining Room' in the past in Great George Place but I can't find it or where it was... its driving me nuts!! :(
Luv XCX
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Had you already seen ~ or even posted ~ this?
75 St. George St. ~ William Hughes H. M. 30 Cocoa Room Manager b. Liverpool
http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/LANCSGEN/2000-12/0976305365
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'... one thing there can be little doubt, that to substitute the use of tea, coffee, and cocoa, for spirituous liquors, would be a great gain. In the literature of teetotalism thus far there has been but one dietetical alternative to alcohol, and that is water.'
'COFFEE-HOUSES AGAINST RUM-SHOPS.'
Popular Science Monthly/Volume 14/November 1878/Editor's Table
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Popular_Science_Monthly/Volume_14/November_1878/Editor%27s_Table
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This is the only building left and its number 3-4 but only space for a few more buildings each side so can't work out where old road went!! :(
I think that you can see that building on this old photo:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_uPjaUtd_i5Y/TPRDEEbRhnI/AAAAAAAAAYM/ER-eCBbKElM/s1600/greatgeorgeplace.jpg
I wonder if the cocoa rooms are on any of these?
http://streetsofliverpool.co.uk/great-george-street-and-david-lewis-hostel-1980/
http://liverpoolhistorysocietyquestions.blogspot.com/
http://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/nof/emigrants/access/liverpool.asp?[lookup]=irish
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:) Yes thats the right building but the road in front of the building behind the triangle is the only part named Great George Place the large road with the tram is Great George Street but there doesn't seem enough space on the left of the building to house up to number 17 as numbering appears to come towards camera, and I can't find old map to see if it continues on other side of road to the left on pic!!! :(
Your cool... you're findin info its taken me month to find!! :)
Luv
XCX
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Hi Cal
Bermingham's cocoa-room is shown on the post card. He was the proprietor according to the 1911 directory. It was actually 143 St James' Street, on the corner of Great George Place. I will add some details to the 1910 postcard.
Great George Place was a triangle that included the David Lewis Hostel, where the tram is. It went behind the viewer to the junction of Parliament Street and Upper Parliament Street. It was numbered sequentially starting with No1 - the second building on the left - next to the Bermingham cocoa-room.
The 1906 OS reprint for Central Liverpool available from Alan Godfrey Maps shows the area well. There were a few changes between 1901 and 1911. The David Lewis was built on the site of the old St James' market and numbers 16 and 17 had been joined to form a larger dining rooms.
Ken
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(http://usera.ImageCave.com/km1971/greatgeorgeplace - modified.jpg)
The numbers are Great George Place.
Ken
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Wow thanks Ken... I wish I'd posted on here a year ago when this first started to puzzle me!! :)
One thing I know now is that the Bermingham obviously wasn't the relatives establishment we are looking for, as they are the owners?? of the numbers 16 and 17 that had been joined to form a larger dining rooms, as that is what appears on the census!!
So... I now have the dilema of trying to find more info on these rooms and don't even have establishment name!! :(
LOL... Why is it that pictures are ALWAYS taken with the camera mans back to the building you require?? :(
Many Thanks again!!
Cal
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If you search for (Upper) Parliament Street and St James' Place (which was opposite) you may see no 17. It was only three buildings from the corner.
Ken
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Oooo thankyou... I'll look right now!! :) I'm determined to find it!! :)
Luv
XCX
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LOL... well I've now been looking for 2hrs solid and not found a sausage!! :'(
Think I'm just not destined to see this Cocoa Room!! :)
Many Thanks for all your support!! :)
Luv
XCX
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... Just someone in records office said they had seen a pic of 'the Bermingham Dining Room' in the past in Great George Place but I can't find it or where it was...
You must have got the Saturday girl - if you search for bermingham in the archive you get one hit with it in.
Ken
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DOH... Sorry to be thick but what archive?? :)
Luv
XCX
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Hi the building3/4 became a bank think it was the midland around 1950s/60s
the road which the tram is on leads into the city ,on the right after David Lewis behind the other buildings the anglican cathederal was built. when some of the buildings were demolished Bill Hannah established a motorcycle business in 1960s after that closed the land was derelict until new houses were built stetching right along road for many years after David Lewis was demolished just the ornate gates were left standing I think the gates were used somewhere else in the city but I can' remember where sure somebody knows--
regards Chris
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Hi Cal
http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/dserve.exe?dsqApp=Archive&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqCmd=Search.tcl
Ken
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Brilliant!! :)
Looks like a trip to the records office for me then!!! :)
Thanks so much Ken!! :)
XCX