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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Derbyshire => Topic started by: Greenealogist on Saturday 04 December 10 15:44 GMT (UK)
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Until very recently nobody knew anything about my great-grandfather, John Frederick 'Johnny' Clare. He ran off and left my grandmother when she was young and went off to have another family in the same village. However, a month ago I ordered his birth certificate, which said he had been born on the 27/6/1918 at 111 Station Road, Holbrook, the son of Charles Clare and Sarah Ann Clare formerly Ellis. I ordered their marriage certificate, which I will type out below:
Tenth Charles Clare 36 Bachelor Railway Platelayer Station Road Holbrook s.o John Clare, Carpenter
October
1904 Sarah Ann Ellis 23 Spinster of Station Road, Holbrook, d.o James Ellis (deceased), Railway guard.
They were married at Eckington Parish Church and witnessed by William Leah and Hannah Oates.
I checked 111 Station Road on the 1911 census and it was inhabited by a Coleman family. I cannot check the other 139 houses as I am only 14 years old. I cannot find any of the couple in any census and I have absolutely no idea what railway Charles Clare or James Ellis might have worked for as I cannot find any stations in Eckington.
I am at a loss as to what to look for, and I hope someone can shed light on the situation.
Thanks
James
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hmmm, a knotty one young Padawan!
I see two Clare births indexed in Chesterfield pre-1912 (post 1904), so can't be sure of Mothers Maiden name for those w/o purchase.
There is a Charles H Clare 1913 in Chesterfield MMN=Ellis.
Would be good to see Charles & Sarah's PoBs, might be able to pin them down as Fathers names arent helping.
Are you aware of any pre-WW1 Military Service that might have taken the family away from the Chesterfield District?
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Searching on FreeBMD there's a Sarah Ann Ellis by Q2 1881 in East Retford, which is the most probable, all the others were very far away. This could also make sense as Retford has a major railway junction there. The only vague posibillity for Charles was born in West Derby Reg. Dist. in 1868, which is just possible.
Can't think of any pre-WWI after the Boer War, which is too early. Charles, by the way, doesn't appear to have served in WWI but that would account for the gap between a possible Charles H and my definite ancestor.
I'd love to crack this as its been a problem for years.
Thanks for you interest.
James
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Can't think of any pre-WWI after the Boer War, which is too early.
The Empire still needed protecting, and the Army was seen as a source of livelihood, plus you got to go and often take your Family to far flung places!
Its interesting that neither of the 2 pre-1911 births show up on a census, nor do Charles & Sarah - hence the question.
The Charles H is definate - MMN = Ellis.
Might be good to see what Chas snr's occupation was on that Cert.
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Trawling through military records can't find anything appropriate, but that's not an indicator of anything, really, ancestry's not always good for transcriptions. Which cert, on the marriage he was a Railway Platelayer and on the birth of Johnny he was 'of no occupation, formerly railway platelayer'? Wonder if the company had sacked him, seeing as he was about 50 at the time. Also, little bit of info here, Charles H Clare died in 1918. Finally, there are two Eckington stations, which were both called Eckington & Renishaw. One was the Midland Railway station, the other was on the Grand Central Railway.
James
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Until very recently nobody knew anything about my great-grandfather, John Frederick 'Johnny' Clare. He ran off and left my grandmother when she was young and went off to have another family in the same village. However, a month ago I ordered his birth certificate, which said he had been born on the 27/6/1918 at 111 Station Road, Holbrook, the son of Charles Clare and Sarah Ann Clare formerly Ellis. I ordered their marriage certificate, which I will type out below:
Tenth Charles Clare 36 Bachelor Railway Platelayer Station Road Holbrook s.o John Clare, Carpenter
October
1904 Sarah Ann Ellis 23 Spinster of Station Road, Holbrook, d.o James Ellis (deceased), Railway guard.
They were married at Eckington Parish Church and witnessed by William Leah and Hannah Oates.
I checked 111 Station Road on the 1911 census and it was inhabited by a Coleman family. I cannot check the other 139 houses as I am only 14 years old. I cannot find any of the couple in any census and I have absolutely no idea what railway Charles Clare or James Ellis might have worked for as I cannot find any stations in Eckington.
I am at a loss as to what to look for, and I hope someone can shed light on the situation.
Thanks
James
Have look on my website www.ridgeway.org.uk I am transcribing Eckington records
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Hi Omskirk
Thanks for the web link, I will look with interest
James
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The Coleman family are living at Station Road Eckington, in the 1911 census whereas the marriage certificate states Station Rd at Holbrook.
The hamlet of Holbrook is between Halfway and Killamarsh and the main rd is Station Road. (I live half a mile from this)
There was also the railway at Killamarsh which was within walking distance.
Tuppie
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Hi
The exact address given on the birth certificate is 111 Station Road, Holbrook, Eckington. The address for the Coleman family was given as 111 Station Road, Holbrook via Sheffield. Do you think they are the same, or am I being a bit dense here?
I have trawled through the Eckington site which omskirk provided me with but have been unable to find anything of relevance. Will see what I can find out about Holbrook.
Thanks
James
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Until very recently nobody knew anything about my great-grandfather, John Frederick 'Johnny' Clare. He ran off and left my grandmother when she was young and went off to have another family in the same village. However, a month ago I ordered his birth certificate, which said he had been born on the 27/6/1918 at 111 Station Road, Holbrook, the son of Charles Clare and Sarah Ann Clare formerly Ellis. I ordered their marriage certificate, which I will type out below:
Tenth Charles Clare 36 Bachelor Railway Platelayer Station Road Holbrook s.o John Clare, Carpenter
October
1904 Sarah Ann Ellis 23 Spinster of Station Road, Holbrook, d.o James Ellis (deceased), Railway guard.
They were married at Eckington Parish Church and witnessed by William Leah and Hannah Oates.
Hi. If I'm stuck I always try looking at the witnesses to a wedding, to see if they give any clues.
William Leah could be this one, perhaps just a neighbour?
1901 census living 108 Station Road, William Hump. Leah aged 19, corporal in coal mine born Eckington, Holbrook.
Hannah Oates could be this one, also living nearby.
1901 census
New St, Eckington
Fred Oates head m 26 coal miner filler, Yorks, Huddersfield
Hannah ditto wife 26 Yorks Birstall Leeds
Sydney ditto son 4 Derbys Holbrook
John Ar. ditto son 3 Derbys ?Shingmill
George Saunderson lodger s 50 Yorks Doncaster
There is a marriage perhaps:
Fred Oates to Hannah Ellis (on same page) Dec qtr 1895 Dewsbury
So maybe Hannah Oates was Sarah Ann's sister? Following that idea, this could be them in 1881
Church St, Gomersal
James Ellis head mar 24 shunter L&NW Rail, Wakefield, York
Ann ditto wife mar 34 Littletown? Yorks
John G. ditto son 4 scholar Birstal Yorks
Hannah ditto dau 6 scholar ditto
Sarah ditto dau 3mo Ditto
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Gardener
You, Sir (or Madam), are a wonderful person. I think you have just cracked Sarah Ann Ellis. Well done, I congratulate you. My sincere thanks, I shall take this information. Now all that remains are the Clares, but I have a hunch they might be more difficult than the Ellises.
Thank you, and also to everyone else who has helped so far.
James
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I have now checked the original census and it is actually 111 Station Road, Holbrook, Halfway, Nr Sheffield.
Both these hamlets were in the parish of Eckington.
I find it strange that they cannot be found on any of the census.
The other records you could check are the electoral rolls which are available at the record office at Matlock.
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Just found this, thanks to Gardener
23 Davy Street, Brighouse, 1901
Lena Ellis Head Wid 35 Yorks., Scarborough
Sarah Ann Ellis Daughter S 20 Cotton Knotter Yorks., Gomersall
Maud Ellis Daughter 6 Yorks., Mirfield
Lilian Ellis Daughter 4 Yorks., Mirfield
Doris Ellis Daughter 7 mos. Yorks., Mirfield
So, did Ann die and James marry again, then die no later than 16 months before the 1901 census? Evidently, Sarah Ann is Lena's stepdaughter and not daughter judging by the ages (and the fact we know that she was someone elses daughter). That's all for tonight, must go to bed so I can get up for school.
James
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Hi James,
I can't add any information that will be of use to you but I do want to applaud and congratulate you! It is rare indeed to find a 14 year old who is not only literate and polite but tenacious too!
Keep up the good work!
Jill
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Hi James,
I can't add any information that will be of use to you but I do want to applaud and congratulate you! It is rare indeed to find a 14 year old who is not only literate and polite but tenacious too!
Keep up the good work!
Jill
Hear Hear!
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Thank you very much for your kind comments, Jill and Omskirk. I have just a couple of things to add to what has already been found:
Marriages Sep 1874 (>99%)
Ellis James Dewsbury 9b 892
FIRTH Ann Dewsbury 9b 892
Thanks to FreeBMD.
1861 Census of Liversedge
Isaac Firth [No relation given] Widr. 76 Woolen Weaver Yorks., Littletown
John Firth Head Widr. 41 Woolen Weaver Yorks., Littletown
James Firth Son 12 Looser in Dye Works Yorks., Littletown
Ann Firth Daughter 13 Worsted Spinner Yorks., Littletown
And from Familysearch:
John Firth bp. 27 Dec 1818 in Birstall son of Isaac and Sarah
So, does this seem to be a reasonable assumption to make?
James
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James,
Althought thiss is not directly to do with your search, I often find it useful to look at old maps to find places which no longer exist or have changed (like the railway).
Try www.old-maps.co.uk for example.
Alec
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Hi Alec
Thanks for the advice, I've managed to track down the station on there which is useful.
James