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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ross & Cromarty => Topic started by: Cinders on Friday 03 December 10 15:15 GMT (UK)
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Please can anyone help decipher & locate a place name
I have a copy of a bpt entry in Kincardine OPR in Sept 1805 for Mathison where a place name is not easy to read - "at Lupernich" would seem to be the best rendering
In 1851 Census, the child baptised in 1805 is in Tain parish and gives his birthplace as "Lubernich" parish of Kincardine (again, best rendering)
Is this the name of a croft or a settlement? I did wonder if it could have been mis-heard or miss-spelt or maybe a contraction of Lubachoinnich in Strath Cuileannach (just as Avoch is pronounced Och)
Many thanks
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Hi Cinders
I've had a look in "Place names of Ross and Cromarty" by WJ Watson (published 1904). In the parish of Kincardine there's a place listed called Lub-conich which Watson says means "mossy bend" in Gaelic.
Strathcuillionach (which I presume is the same as Strath Cuileannach in your post) is just a few entries further on in the list so it looks like this could be the place you're looking for (unfortunately the book doesn't have any maps, so difficult to know for sure where Lub-conich is in the parish!).
Watson doesn't give any indication if Lub-conich is just a single croft or a larger settlement unfortunately, but as the entry is very brief, it suggests that it's not a big place.
Hope this helps
Lynn
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Thanks for your help
Yes, I think that must be it
Apparentlly it is mentioned on several headstones in Croick grave yard so it would seem to be in that corner of the parish
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Hello Chortlegirl
Would your book on Ross & Cromarty placenames also have something like "Lupenoy" near Kincardine? I am trying to interpret a parish register record from 1820.
Thanks,
Kevin
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Hi Kevin
Watson's book lists a few places in Kincardine parish that begin with "L" and so could be possibilities, but one of them is Lubcroy (Gaelic for hard bend, where the hard denotes stony or firm ground as opposed to bog) which allowing for spidery handwriting looks like a potential candidate for Lupenoy.
Hope this helps
Lynn
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Hello Lynn
Thanks for responding so quickly. This is the first time I've used Rootschat so I'm impressed!
I think the place name may be Lubcroy. The "b" extends to well below the word and it could simply be a blot on the paper - difficult to tell. Your book appears to be very comprehensive! Useful for someone like me who is having a lot of difficulty trying to work out where all the boundaries between the districts of Ross & Cromarty (and Sutherland) fall.
Happy New Year to you.
Kevin
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Hi there,
I forwarded your thread to my father as he was born and brought up in this area...this is what he said...
"this place would be as suggested Lubachoinnich (or variation of this). It's up the Strath from Croick farm about 3 to 4 miles. There is one shepherds house there (which I actually spent hols in with a school pal in the late fifties). There's evidence of many old dwellings in this strath (Strath Cuileannach) but the land was cleared for sheep once upon a time and the people evicted.
There are still some Mathesons in the locality who may be descendents of the one you mention."
Hope that helps
Anna
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Thanks also to you, Anna.
I am looking at the birth of a Murdoch Macleod on 10 January 1820, son of Murdoch and Katharine MacLeod and registered at Kincardine. I think (based on Lynn's advice) that the birth took place at Lubcroy. However I am still trying to work out what all the abbreviations from the parish registers of those times actually mean.
With a few tenuous links I think Murdoch is an ancestor of my mother-in-law (who lives in South Wales). She turns 80 next year, and knows little about her mother's background so I am trying to fill in the gaps as a birthday present ot her.
Happy New Year also to you,
Kevin
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Could this be the family you are looking for?
1841 Census Alltnacraig, Kincardine
Murdoch Mcleod 45
Cathrine Mcleod 40
William Mcleod 20 (should be 22?)
Angus Mcleod 15
Murdoch Mcleod 14 (should be 20?)
Alexr Mcleod 12 (should be 14?)
Harriet Mcleod 10
Ann Mcleod 8
Rodrick Mcleod 5
Duncan Mcleod 2
The above entries correspond with data from the mormons website...
Children of Murdoch and Catherine Macleod...
---- Alexr Macleod b 1826
---- William Macleod b 1818
---- Anne Macleod b 1832
---- Alexr Macleod b 1819
---- Murdoch Macleod b 1820
Hope that the above may be helpful,
Regards,
Ana
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I have wondered whether this was the same family. There seem to be quite a few McLeod families in the area and, with Murdoch Junior's age being so far out, I was still hesitating as to whether the family was correct.
My starting point was the 1861 census where Murdoch Junior's family,living in Craggie in Kincardine was:
Murdock (Age 41)
Anne (37)
Isabella (12)
Cathrine (11)
Margaret (9)
William (8)
Christina (6)
Johanna (4)
Mary (1)
Hector (4M)
Anne was born in Stornoway and, working back to the 1851 census, my guess is that Murdock Junior was in the following household in Fyrish, Alness, ROC:
Donald Munro (50)
Margret Stewart (34)
Murdoch McLeod (31)
Ann Morrison (28)
Catharine McLeod (1)
Margret Stewart (7)
Not sure where Isabella has got to, but it is possible her age in the 1861 census is wrong or she was staying with relatives at the time. I haven't been able to find her yet (and she, I think, is the ancestor of my mother-in-law).
If there are no other McLeods around Kincardine in 1841 then I think you are correct and the family you cite is the same on - strange that Mudoch Junior's age is so far out.
Thanks again for your assistance.
Kevin
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Hi Kevin,
Do you have a death certificate for Murdoch Mcleod? And where did the family move to?
It certainly does look as though the Murdoch from Craggie is the son of the Murdoch & Catherine who resided at Aultnacealg (not Alltnacraig as I had thought). A house still stands in that area, near to the Aultnacealgach Hotel. Aultnacealg (The Burn of Deceit) lies by the boundary of Kincardine and Assynt. Loubcroy is a little further to the east, and I think there are two houses there still - such a remote area.
There is also still a lovely old cottage at Craggie, which is used as a holiday cottage for trout fishers and walkers mostly.
The order of Murdoch and Catherine's children as listed on the 1841 would seem to be correct, just some of the ages out, so I wouldnt discount it.
Kind regards,
Ana
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Hello Ana
I don't yet have the death certificate for Murdoch. However I believe he died between 1865/66 and 1871.
In 1871 the family were living in Clay of Allan, Fearn, ROC and there had been two new additions - Angus (aged 8 in 1871) and Murdoch (5). Since the head of the household is now Ann, this sets the boundaries for Murdoch's probable date of death .
Frustratingly for me, Isabella is not living with the family in 1871. As I also cannot find details of her birth the only record I have of her early years is the 1861 census.
I cannot find the family as a unit at all in the 1881 census so my guess is that Ann died in those 10 years, and the family scattered through work or marriage. Without going into a long story, my trace back to the family was through Margaret, or Maggie, and I cannot find for certain either her or Isabella (or Isabella's first illegitimate child who was born around 1875) in the 1881 census so I'm not sure what happened to any of the children after 1871.
I guess from your comments that you either live, or were brought up, in this part of Scotland. I have never visited it myself - the closest being a holiday South of Inverness and a weekend spent in Thurso (which is where my mother-in-law thought her mother came from). She doesn't yet know that I now think her roots are further South, and maybe this will provide an excuse to visit.
Thanks again for your interest.
Kevin
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Hi Kevin,
I think this is Isabella with her grandparents in 1851...
1851 - Aultnacealg, Kincardine
Murdoch Macleod 60
Catherine Macleod 53
Anne Macleod 17
Roderick Macleod 15
Duncan Macleod 11
Isabella Macleod 2 (granddaughter) b Eddrachillis
And this could be her in 1871 as a servant...
1871 - Balnabruich, Kincardine
Robert Munro 54
Christina Munro 45
Isabella Mclead 20 Gen. Servant b. Eddrachillis
James Black 14
What were the names of Isabella's illeg. children, do you know where they were born?
I dont see any obvious death certificates for Murdoch or Ann so far.
There's a good chance there may be living rellies of this family still in the area.
Yes I was brought up around this area, it is beautiful and very quiet...very little going on these days!
Hope I can help further,
Ana
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Inchnadamph Cemetery
Erected in loving memory of his parents by Duncan McLeod, Loch Assynt. Murdo McLeod. Aultanacealgach who departed this life on 25th April 1855 aged 75 years and Catherine McLeod who died 20th March 18?? aged 89 years.
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Hello Ana
Thanks for the further information.
The 1891 census has Isabella listed as Bella McLeod living at 3 Dunrobin Street, Tain with three daughters: Bella McLeod 15, Lillie Cormack 6 and Jemiana 2 months - all born in Tain.
I haven't been able to trace anything further about Bella junior. However Lillie was born Lily McLeod in King Street, Tain on 22 May 1885 and later died on 14 June 1901 in Invergordon.
Jemiana was born Jemima (or, I think, Jemina) Fraser McLeod in Dunrobin Street on 13 February 1891 and I suspect is my mother-in-law's mother. Bella (mother) and Jemina were living in Hugh Miller Street in Invergordon when the 1901 census was taken. I think Lily was a servant with the Holmes family in Creich, Bonar in Sutherland.
The 1871 census has several Isabella M(a)cLeods of about the right age working for different families, which is why I'm unsure which is the right one. The info. you provide would seem, though, to have the right place of birth.
That's about the extent of my information .... and there's a fair amount of guesswork with some of these links. However the suggested headstone from "ghostwhisperer" seems to relate to the McLeod family we have been corresponding about.
Best wishes,
Kevin
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Hello Kevin,
Found a death cert for Isabella McLeod in 1911 at Tain. Parents Murdo McLeod & Ann (Morrison) McLeod.
The death was registered by Ina Macleod, daughter (----Jemina?).
There seems to be a lot of Ancestry members researching children of Murdo and Anne, but the wires are getting crossed as there was another Murdo McLeod and Ann Morrison having a family around the same time as the Kincardine lot.
Heres a couple of pics of the cottage at Craggie...very cute wee place...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/heathersmemories/2875824443/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/heathersmemories/3445796176/
Kind regards,
Ana
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Hello Ana
Craggie looks like a lovely place, but I'm not sure I would want to live there through the sort of winter we are having!
Where did you find the death certificate for Isabella? I used Scotlands People to obtain a list of deaths for *bella M*cLeod between 1901 and 1924 for all Scotland, and nothing came up on the list for any deaths in Tain. Have they not recorded the name correctly? What was Isabella's age recorded as when she died?
Anyway, would it be possible to attach a copy? If not, I'll try Scotland's People again to see if I can find it using other variations.
From what you say I hope that, moving backwards from Isabella, I have the correct Murdo & Ann. I think I have in that the records I have looked for from both Isabella and Margaret go back to them.
If I can ever help you with your researches (less likely, but you never know) then let me know.
Have a good day,
Kevin
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..... what I should also have said is the fact that, on the death certificate, the daughter put her name as "Ina" rather than Jemina (or variations) suggest that she is indeed my mother-in-law's mother. Her name was Ina Fraser MacLeod on her marriage certificate.
Kevin
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I have found an Australian website which suggests that:
(i) Murdoch was the son of William and Henny MacLeod (both born c. 1770); and
(ii) He married Catherine MacLeod from (or in) Bracadale in 1811.
Does this information agree with your data? When I have tried searching for the marriage, I've found more than one possibility:
(a) Marriage to Catherine Graham in Barvas in 1816
(b) Marriage to Catherine Urquhart in Cromarty in 1819 (Not so likely as this Murdoch was a sailor.)
Like you, still looking for the death of Murdoch & Catherine's son, Murdoch (Junior). Been searching the on-line information on gravestones (which I'm sure you have done, but I hadn't looked there before.)
Best wishes, Kevin
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My husband's ancestors - MacPhersons - lived and worked at Lubachoinnich for many years and some are buried in the churchyard at Croick while others emigrated to USA, New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. The MacPhersons originally came from the Laggan area in Inverness-shire.
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anabanana...you mention balnabruich in your correspondance ,this wouldnt be Balnabruich croft in glencalvie /strathcarron would it ?..if it is this is where my mother Elspeth munro was born her parents are William and johanna munro and family
Findlay munro
illiam munro
margaret munro
thomasina munro
robert munro
elspeth munro
lindsay munro
donald munro
i still have a large family network in that area.
heather munro
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Hi Cinders, I believe that William Matheson, the founder of the Glenmorangie Distillery, was born in Lubachoinnich. He subsequently moved to Edderton, when his father became a brewer there (presumably at Balblair Distillery).
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Hi mrsaird
"My husband's ancestors - MacPhersons - lived and worked at Lubachoinnich" [ Lubconich ]
Did they go to school down the valley to Croick, or west over the hill to Duag Bridge ?
which was a sideschool for Lubcroy ( in StrathOykel ) ?
Interest is from helping to look after Duag Schoolhouse for the bothies association
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To be honest I have no idea, I know that one of the MacPhersons is listed on the census as a school teacher but have never looked in to the school side of things. If you are descended from the MacPhersons of Lubconich you must be related to my husband.
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Ta, no, I do have MacPhersons, but they descended from Neil, a shepherd who lived at Poul-Tigh-Keriken in Assynt
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Murdoch's parents are in fact William McLeod and Henny McLeod. Catherine's parents are Angus McLeod and Ann McDonald. Catherine died in Knochan, Assynt. (Her maiden name is not Watson, it is McLeod).