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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Seoras on Thursday 02 December 10 13:03 GMT (UK)
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I have been tracking my GGG grandfather,born in Linlithgow circa 1806,I have him in every census from 1841 till 1881 when at 74 he is still a tanner.On the 1891 census just his daughter and grandaughter are left at the same address.He is I think unlikely to have changed the habit of a lifetime and gone off travelling so must have died in this ten year period.However I can't find a death certificate on Scotland's People despite the fact it is within the period of statutory deaths.Any ideas anyone? :-\
George.
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Hi George
What was his name ::)
Monica
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Hi Monica,James Steen,though sometimes it's recorded as Stein.One of his sons my GG grandfather keeps it as Stein but his brother moves to England and keeps it as Steen,I know complicated :-\.I know he was married to Jane Downs who died 23 November 1863,I have found her.He seems to have spent his whole life in Linlithgow so I feel he must have died here.
George.
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Was your GGG Grandfather married to a Margaret White?
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Hi Seoras,
There is a James Ste*n, born 1806 +/- 5, who died at West Calder in 1869, found this by searching SP, have you looked at this as a possibility.
Tom
PS Ignore this, I now re-read your post, and you found him in 1881 census.
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There is a James Stevens occ Tanner on Scotlands People born 1805 - death registered in Linlithgow 1887
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Like you though, can't see a likely fit for his death, even when you open up the search parameters. From all deaths in West Lothian between 1881-1901, for a Ja* St* (male) with a birth year 1810 +/- 10yrs, only the following show:
1885 - James Stathhearn, 68, in Whitbun
1887 - James Stark, 68, in West Calder
1895 - James Stewart, 83, in West Calder
Specifically in Linlithgow, West Lothian for this criteria:
1886 - James Steel, 75
1886 - James Stevenson, 74
1887 - James Stevens, 82
None of them inspire confidence do they :-\ The closest one is perhaps James Steel v. Steen/Stein but age is light.
Monica
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Thank you both,I will take a look at Stevens first as age and place are closest.Flipping enumerators.On his son's death certificate they have put as his mother the name of a woman who was actually his mother-in-law.I will let you know if it's correct.
George.
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Well that is strange,Name almost correct,age correct,occupation correct,address Strawberry Bank correct.Married to Margaret White,incorrect unless he remarried,Informant James Downie grandson.I will have to find if any of his daughters married a Downie.Also doesn't mention his parents which I hoped for.Off for a rethink,back soon.Thank you both anyway.
ps.Yokerbrian,just seen your post re Margaret White,At this stage it's possible :-[
George.
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Might still be a flyer George!
There is an IGI marriage entry between a James Steen and a Margaret White showing on 18 JUN 1866 in Linlithgow.
Given that wife Jane Downs died in 1863, could he have got remarried?
Monica
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Ooh,I will take a look at that Monica.She is missing from the 1871 census however but could have died before then.Infuriating family :-X
George.
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George, have you tried the Linlithgow burials? Skoosh.
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James Stein Downie - 3rd June 1857 - Linlithgow - father George Downie - mother Marion Stein - possibility.
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Good afternoon Skoosh,how are you,got a drop of snow up there I do believe.Is there a link to Linlithgow burials or do I go onto Lothian Family History.
George.
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Susan you little darling,I reckon you are bang on.He did have a daughter called Marion,hang on I will pop and find a bit of paper with the info on ;D
George.
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That's a great find Susan ;)
See, George, all slowly coming together (me with my fingers crossed for you!)
Monica
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Going to have a look in a while Monica,just seeing to the needs of a West Highland White Terrier who insists it not too cold to go out for a quick walk.
George.
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Well Susan that birth is looking good.Husband is a shoemaker as was her brother(my GG grandfather) and so was her brother's father-in-law,all in High St where this birth took place.Right now to find their marriage.Fingers crossed it's in Statutory but it's close.
George.
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Just seen the photo, shucks, cute ;D Make sure (vincent?) doesn't get lost in the snow...!
I think the marriage for George Downie and Marion Stein might have been just before the start of official registration in 1855, submitted IGI entries have it as either late 1852 or 53. You might have to go down the line of searching for a death cert for Marion to try and confirm her parents' names that way.
Monica
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Got it!!!!! you lovely Rootschatters,thank you all so much.Now to check if my GGG grandfather had a late fling but it sure looks that way. ;D
ps.Monica,don't be taken in by that dogs looks,nothing with fur or feathers is safe.
George.
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Lucky, lucky with that OPR entry....!
I've tried to find a death for Margaret White/Stein pre 1871 to try and support why James showed alone (not sure if you have the originals or just a transcripts of the censuses) to have been able to confirm his marital status for those censuses. I can't see an obvious one up to 1886 and James' death, a couple of possibilities after this year. Did James shows as still married on his 1886 death entry?
I think maybe a check of that marriage in 1866 when you can may be a good next step.
Monica
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YES YES YES,I LOVE ROOTS CHAT,hang on while I do cartwheels round the room........................Ah that's better ;D ;D ;D.Monica,Susan,Yokerbrian,THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU.It was him after all,even better than that due to his second marriage I have my GGGG grandparents.Another James Steen(surprise surprise),a miller and is that Janet Auld? Thank god he was a lusty old beggar :).I now have them back to the 1700's,never thought I would get there with this particular bunch.
George.
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That's a great result George!
Monica :)
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Absolutely fantastic Monica,I am over the moon,thanks again for your help.That's what I like about Roots Chat,people who know what they are doing perfectly willing to help us novices out of a maze.
His younger son,my GG grandfather's only brother left to join the army the same year as this second marriage.I wonder if the marriage had anything to do with that decision,he was the youngest child and his mother had only been gone three years hmmmmmmm.
George.
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Likely the marriage may not have been a happy union given there is no sign of Margaret with James on the censuses after the marriage perhaps...I've re-read the note on the death cert that Brian had found, and James showed as married (?I think) to Margaret White at the time of his death.
On to your next set of Steins!
Monica
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I think I will bask in the glow and get to know these for a while Monica :)
His son never went home,he spent twenty years,mostly abroad in the army and then married,settled and died on the Isle of Wight,where he is buried.
Margaret White is not down as deceased on his DC.
George.
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A man after my own research heart ;) - there is no point making big breakthroughs on people and then leaving them behind quickly as you move on past to previous generations.
Monica
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;D wow, great sleuthing on behalf of the thread owner whose username phonetically sounds like a phone prank... :P
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Happy to have assisted in your search - I Love RootsChat :D
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That was a great find by you Brian that started the ball rolling!
Monica
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Brian,as Monica says,you started the ball rolling,great stuff,
Monica,yes it's good to step back and pause to take some time to find out more about the people than just their names.I have been following his son,my GG uncle for a while.When I joined Roots Chat,I didn't know he existed,now thanks to another member DebUSA,who found him I even know the colour of his eyes.
JJ I couldn't have done it without these guys and hmmm yes I suppose the name could be misconstrued,naughty,naughty Gaelic language. ;D
George.
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Hi George and everyone :)
I am so happy for you, George.
Great work everyone!! Bravo!!
Thought I would post the link to the first thread so that searching is not repeated. It's a good read :)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,494382.0.html
deb
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Hi Deb,yes great result and I also found out his wife Jane's father was HENRY Downs,though given they had James down as Stevens on his DC,when searching I may as well enter Lorna Doone and see what that comes up with ;D ;D ;D
George.
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;D ;D :D
So James (1805), his mum was Janet AULD.... WOW great find!
Wonder what happened to Margaret (2nd wife)?
deb
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Just found her,she died in Linlithgow in 1893 aged 90.Funny she isn't on any census after their 1866 marriage,they must have parted between then and 1871.
George.
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there is this person in 1881
1881
29 Livery Street
Bathgate
Margrate Stein 70 . pauper formerly weaver, b Bathgate, Linlithgowshire
Isabella Forbes 14
1891
Bathgate
19 Gideon St
Margaret Stein 79. pauper, b Bathgate
Marion Glen 84
deb
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On Marriage cert (1866) Margaret states age of 55 ...so bc 1811 :-\
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Definately her in Linlithgow Deb.Methinks the lady was somewhat coy about her age on the marriage certificate.Down as 55 when she would have been 63 :o
George.
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Margaret in 1861 ??
Maybe she wantd to be younger when she married James ;)
Linlithgow
376 High St
Margaret White 55, head, b Linlithgow
Henry Mars 28
Mary Jane S Mccann 2
ahhhh haaaa
1871
Linlithgow
8 West Port
Margaret Slein 65 , b Linlithgow
Is she a laundress?
deb
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Hi Seoras,
There is a Margaret White on an extracted record on IGI, born Linlithgow 7th October 1810 to parents Robert White and Christian Simm.
Another one 8th April 1811, to parents Alexander White and Agnes Anderson
Tom
PS Just looked back to MC, and none of these 2 fit, ignore again
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Hi Tom
I also just looked back at MC :D
here's her parent's marriage
John White = Mary Scott
1 JUL 1798, Linlithgow, West Lothian
IGI extracted
deb
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Another Scott!!! That's the fourth I have come across including my GGG grandmother.
Deb I don't know yet if she was a laundress but she certainly seems to have rinsed a few years off her age :D
PS. both of Tom's fit according to her marriage age but it definately says 90 on the DC.Also the names match yours,so they must have been married 5/6 years when Margaret was born.
George.
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seems Margaret came from a large family ...her siblings are on IGI but mostly submitted entries ....nothing for Margaret.
deb
OH My George ...all those Scotts in Scotland :D
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Thanks to everyone who helped on this last week.Thanks to your combined efforts in finding my GGGG grandfather's second marriage,I was able to obtain from the certificate his mother's name .From this I have had another massive stroke of luck.I knew she was born in Linlithgow and found there was only one person with her name born in the time range.This then gave me her parents.By bracketing either side of her birth 2/5/10 years I found 7 births with the same surname in a 20 year period.All were born to the same parents,giving me the complete family.
Henrietta and Jean twins 1766
Jean (the first one must have died)1768
Alexander 1772
Janet (from the marriage cert)1775
George (there had to be one) 1778
Elizabeth 1783
William 1786
Thank you all so much.
George. :)
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George you must also take into account that his mother's birth may not have been registered.
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Hi Sancti,yes I have taken that on board tho in a 100 year period now I have only 12 in this town as opposed to several thousand for the whole of Scotland,and still looking like the same family.I have taken down all the information and am at the moment working forward to try and confirm a link and have inadvertantly come across someone I think may be my GGGG grandfather's brother.The results aren't set in stone yet,a lot more sleuthing to do.
George.
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Oh My George ...you have come a long way ...congrats!!!!!
If you need help let us know ..... who are you trying to connect?
deb :)
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Hi Deb,I am trying to see if the Janet Auld born Linlithgow 22/4/1775 could possibly be the Janet Auld on James Steen's marriage certificate as his mother.I know James Steen was born in Linlithgow.The other is,remember David Stein on James's army records.Well there are some Davids,too early to be that one but James begat James etc so I am thinking it could be the same for David.So did the original James Steen,Henry's father have a brother,David.There are some Williams too.In my mother's family the four boys were Thomas(we know named after Thomas W)George,James,William.
George.