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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: chrissyst on Thursday 02 December 10 01:52 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone help me with the following.
My Ancestors were Thomas Hanson and Mary hanson nee Cuthbert.
On the 1841 census they are in Dunblance with all the children.
Anne, Mary, Robert Cuthbert, William, Cecilia, Isabella and Agnes Watson.
By the 1851 census Anne is married ot Edward Murray and they are in Dundee without Thomas and Robert (in the home of Anne and Edward Murray)
The rest of the Children are not there but 30 miles away listed as adopted in the home of the Livingstones at Coalsnaughton (but Robert isnt there either.
Robert married Jane Nicholson in 1852...so where was he in 1851 (perhaps with the Nicholson family)
How do I find out.
regards
Chrissy
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Hi Chrissy. do you have the date and place of borth of Robert please.
do you mean Dunblane? if not where is Dunblance?
Diddy
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ok, got those details off tree /A*
Diddy
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you say the other children were adopted - did they take the Livingstone name?
reason - i can't find Robert at all on the 1851 census BUT there is this from A* (SP may have better quality):
1851: in Montrose, Angus
Robert Livingstone 22 head kincardine
Isabella Livingstone 19 sister
maybe if they all took the livingstone name but when he married he reverted to real surname??
Diddy (thinking outside the box!!)
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Robert Cuthbert Hanson date of birth 15.4.1832 Forfarshire.
Yes dunblance is a type should have been dunblane (have psioratic arthritis these days so typo's sometimes happen the fingers don't work as well)
No all the children kept there last name Hanson and I have found marriages.
The reason I found the adoptive infomation an unrelated scottish researcher contacted me to offer his services but unfortunately I do not have the resources to employ him but he did tell me some free information which was about the livingstone connection.
i do know that the mother Mary hanson died at 140 High Street Devonside Tillicoultry in 1859 and I do have her death certificate and the furnisher was William Snowdowne of that address who was her son in law (he married Cecilia Hanson.....One of their sons came to Australia and settled in Highgate in Queensland and was quite a prominent person.
I am wondering why Robert Cuthbert Hanson did not show on the census with the other children in 1851 and I know and have records he married in 1852 and 3 weeks later boarded the Flora MacDonald from Liverpool to Portland Victoria...mmm if only I could find it it also may shed light on the Nicholson as I am thinking perhaps he was living with Jane's family.
chrissy
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Hi Chrissy, yes realised the pob was wrong but if didn't change name then he should show up whoever he was living with!!
think its probably a bad transcription error and hes there somewhere but can't find him on A* or SP with all sorts of wildcards!!
Diddy
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thanks Diddy
appreciate your help....This family sometimes has me stuck on branches...I feel if I could find out where Robert was in 1851 this would lead me to finding Jane's parentage.
Jane is said to have been born in Tipperary ireland but maintained she was scottish and very proud of it.according to family members..
It is said her father was a major in the army and was stationed at Tipperary at the time of her birth.
I have never been able to confidently trace her roots as yet.
chrissy
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SP states that Robert was bap 23/4/1832 in Liff, Angus
Diddy
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Hi Diddy
Correct I have that
question: what does SP mean
chrissy
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scotlands people - all scottish records back to 1500's in one place. pay to view but indexes free:
www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk
Diddy
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the marriage is on there - lists them as both of this parish ie living in Dunblane,perth at time of marriage.
Diddy
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Hi
Ok so do you have access to the 1851 census of Dunblane at all.
We dont have access here yet
chrissy
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as i said i've been searching on A* (subscription) & SP.
think I've just found jane on 1851 in Kinloch,perthshire living as farm servant with family age 18 born Logierait, Perthshire (close to Dundee)
Diddy
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Hi Diddy
Thanks for helping me
They were married in Dunblane is that close by where you found her
Chrissy
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Hi Chrissy and Diddy
Something is not quite right with that transcription from Ancestry for 1851 with the Hanson children living at the Livingston household :-\ I wondered whether there may have been a connection between the Catherine Livingston, 34, wife of head Hugh Livingston who shows on that entry and the Catherine Hanson, 25, who shows with the Hanson family in 1841 in Perth. Chrissy, if you haven't viewed the original image on the site that Diddy mentioned, Scotlands People, it might be an idea to do so to be sure about relationships. Often mistakes creep in on transcription on Ancestry.
Something that made me chuckle on that transcribed entry is the younger Livingston children are all transcribed as 'doing nothing' under the occupation field :P It is this type of error together with the issue of surname/relationship for the Hanson children that would make me want to look at the original image. There is also another child showing as daughter with a totally different surname (Fleming).
This doesn't help with where your Robert was for 1851, but at the same time, can't see any entry for mother Mary given she didn't die until 1859.
Monica :)
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Hi Monica
Yes years ago i came across at the Mormon History centre in Darwin N.T. Australia the 1841 census record of the family showing a Catherine Hanson born scotland...(Thomas was born England) so not to presume I had the feeling she may have been Thomas's sister and the family of Hanson moved over from England (as his son William and his daughter Agnes later went to Dewsbury and Whitby).
I don't have access to the 1851 census unfortuntely....I was hoping to use the local libraries family history computer but it has been down for some weeks in for repair...grrrrr..
The entry Diddy mentioned was exciting news but I am not sure its my Jane...a cousin told me family member said she was very proud of being scottish and was very scottish in every way...
The fleming child you mention ??daughter of who...??catherine and hugh livingstone do you mean
I found the mother Mary Hanson living as a boarder with her daughter Anne Hanson who married Edward Murray ....in 13 Stevenson street Renfrewshire (Paisley renfrewhire census)
The thing that disturbs me is that there is a contradicition ..the gentleman that found the livingstone connection on the census said Anne was showing as 'adopted' and living with them...but I found her quite separately on the above census and mary the mother living with her.
Mary the mother must have gone to live with daughter Cecilia Hanson who married William Snowdowne at some point at 140 high street Devonside as that is the address that appears on her death certificate and James is the informant.
This would be correct I feel as both Robert and Jane Hanson and Anne and Edward Murray immigrated to Australia in 1852 so the mum would have had to find alternate accommodation.
Its just a mystery as to where Robert and Jane were in 1851....and if I coudl find out then just maybe find the parentage of jane nicholson.
What do you think
Chrissy
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Sometimes people are hard to find on censuses, often down to how they have been indexed unfortunately.
I would imagine you have used Scotlands People before in order to access the OPR marriage entry for Robert and Jane? You might want to consider perhaps looking at the actual original image there of the 1851 entry for the Livingston/Hanson entry to actually confirm what is written down. I am guessing that what you are seeing on the transcription of the census may not actually reflect what is on the original and this at least may help you clarily this issue of "adoption". Odd term for those times, normally children would show as boarders for example if they were being taken care of by people who were not family.
I assume that Jane's Tasmanian death cert did not include details on her parents?
Monica
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Hi Monica
yes I think you may be right will do
No Jane's death was recorded and view on a film reel many years ago of her death entry.
All it said on that and the subsequent certificate I purchased was
Jane Frances hanson husband of Robert Cuthbert Hanson
her death date
Place of death Waratah
thats all.
I belive she is buried in the cemetery at Waratah Tasmania
but there is mentioned on the headstone of Robert Cuthbert Hanson at latrobe of her name and date of death. ( I think this is just a memorial piece as Latrobe Council have no record of her being reburied there.)
All so intriguing isnt it.
and yes I agree with you on the adoption thing...strange for those times to see that word..
and I found marriages of the all the children using there original name of Hanson
Regards
Chrissy
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Sorry, Chrissy, just realised you haven't yet seen the Livingston/Hanson 1851 transcription. Here it is:
Hugh Livingston 36, Woollen Weaver b. Blackburn, Linlithgowshire
Catherine Livingston 34 b. Tillicoultry
Hugh Livingston 14, Woollen Piecer b. Glasgow
Robert Livingston 11 b. Glasgow, Doing Nothing.... ::)
Margaret Livingston 8 b. Glasgow, Doing Nothing
Catherine Fleming 6 b. Tillicoultry, Doing Nothing
Agnes Livingston 4 b. Blackburn, Linlithgowshire, yep, still doing nothing!
Isabella Hanson 17 Winds Yarn, b. Dundee
William Hanson 15, Woolspinner b. Dundee
Cecilia Hanson 15, Woolpletter, b. Dundee
Agnes Hanson 13, Woolpeicer b. Dundee
Mary Hanson 11, b. Dunblane, Perthshire
Address: Coalsnaughton, Tillicoultry
The transcript as you know shows the Hanson children as sons/daughters and the two names Livingston and Hanson are used. This is the area where the transcript has probably made errors in what it shows.
Monica
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Hi Monica
Just found some notes in an email sent to me from another root chatter years ago
1851 census of Blairs Land Coalsnaughton
Isabella..age 17...yarn winder..born Dundee
Cecilia...age 15...wool pletter..born Dundee
William....age 15...Wool Spinner......born Dundee
Agnes...age 13..Wool Piecer...Born Dundee
Mary...age 11...born Dunblane
(the Catherine Hanson who appeared in the 1841 census may have married Hugh Livingston as she lives next door)
Isabella Hanson in 1853 married William Hunter in Clackmannon he occupation was given as Coal Miner and hers as a Yarn Winder
As you can see from that proposed entry given to me...Anne and Robert are not on it .
Anne married Edward Murray in 1848 in tillicoultry and immigrated in August of 1852 to Australia
Robert married Jane Nicholson in 1852 in Dunblane and 3 weeks later immigrated to Australia .
In 1851 as mentioned before Anne was living at 13 Stevenson Street Renfrewshire and the mother was with her .
regards
chrissy
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Chrissy, until you look at the original image of the 1851 census page, you won't be certain of the link between the Hanson chilren and the Livingstons and how it has actually been written up. It could simply be that there are two separate households (maybe living together) that have been incorrectly written up together. All guesses though until you confirm from the image.
Monica