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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Australia Lookups completed => Topic started by: ajf25 on Wednesday 01 December 10 21:28 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone tell me please if the fiche for immigrants to Victoria is a transcription of the information from the ships' logs, or is it a digitised copy of the original?
I've found a lot of information from the records kept in NSW. ie. Parents names, whether parents are dead or living, occupation, whether they could read and write, religion.
My sister is doing the family searches in VIC and so far she hasn't found what I've found up here in NSW.
We're chasing our gg grandfather, Robert Muir (very common name I know). He came to VIC prior to 1855, when he married Helen Morton.
Going by the online PROV records, we have 3 possibilities:
Assisted passage - on Gengis Khan, age 33, arrived Jul 1853 - Book 9 P178
Unassisted -
- on Ganges Khan (presumably the same as the above), age 32, arr Jul 1853 - Port B (which I think is Geelong) Fiche 042, Page 013.
- on Tomatin, age 22 , arr Aug 1853 - Port B, Fiche 042, Page 013
- on Lord Warriston, age 28, arr Oct 1852 - Port B, Fiche 011, Page 002.
Come to think of it, I've only had sis check the 3 on the unassisted list. Perhaps the duplicate on the assisted is different.
Any ideas anyone?
Cheers,
Alison :D
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Hi Alison
Port B (which I think is Geelong)
The B stands for British, (Port F stands for Foreign and Port N for New Zealand) and indicates were the voyage originated from.
Is your sister handy for either Melbourne or Geelong because as well as the PROV the Geelong Heritage Centre has films of the passenger lists and I beleive that the State Library also has either films or fiche
Added. Geelong has actual images of the passenger lists (not transcriptions) so I think SLV would be images as well
Andy
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Hi Alison,
The original Vic immigration records are not as detailed as the NSW ones and the original documents do not usually show much more than the index. Occupation and disposal details (who they were contracted to work for) and where they are from can sometimes be found, but often they are just listed as Scottish, English, or Irish. The original will also show you family groups, but not the relationships between them.
Genghis Khan 1853
Robert MUIR, 33, Sawyer
Margaret, 36
Elizabeth, 8
All from Ayr, Scotland
On own account to Melbourne
Tomatin 1853
Robert MUIR, 22, Merchant from Scotland
Travelling First Class
Contracted to land at Port Phillip, Melbourne
Sorry, I am missing pages 2 and 3 for the Lord Warriston, so perhaps someone else is able to look for you.
Debra :D
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Is your sister handy for either Melbourne or Geelong because as well as the PROV the Geelong Heritage Centre has films of the passenger lists and I beleive that the State Library also has either films or fiche
Added. Geelong has actual images of the passenger lists (not transcriptions) so I think SLV would be images as well
Andy
Hi Andy, she lives in Geelong, but only saw the indexes at the Heritage Centre. I'll have her ask for guidance there when next she has time.Hi Alison,
The original Vic immigration records are not as detailed as the NSW ones and the original documents do not usually show much more than the index. Occupation and disposal details (who they were contracted to work for) and where they are from can sometimes be found, but often they are just listed as Scottish, English, or Irish. The original will also show you family groups, but not the relationships between them.
Genghis Khan 1853
Robert MUIR, 33, Sawyer
Margaret, 36
Elizabeth, 8
All from Ayr, Scotland
On own account to Melbourne
Tomatin 1853
Robert MUIR, 22, Merchant from Scotland
Travelling First Class
Contracted to land at Port Phillip, Melbourne
Sorry, I am missing pages 2 and 3 for the Lord Warriston, so perhaps someone else is able to look for you.
Debra :D
Hi Debra, I'm away from home at the moment (away from all my records). From memory, the Tomatin entry is the one I thought fitted best; agewise and the fact that he was single at the time of emigration.
I'll wait and see if someone has access to the Lord Warriston records.
Thanks to you both,
Alison :D
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Hi Alison
The Geelong Heritage Centre has close to 300 films of Incoming and Outgoing Passenger Lists for Victoria, whilst the films themselves are not indexed you can use them in conjunction with the PROV indexes. Included in these films and incoming fom other States that have not been indexed by PROV as well as Outging Passenger Lists to 1902 to1923 that haven't been indexed by PROV yet
The links below have links to Geelong Heritage Centre catalogues
http://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/ct/documents/item/8cbce06318238fb.aspx
http://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/ct/documents/item/8cc2b677f439b91.aspx
Andy
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Hi Alison
The Geelong Heritage Centre has close to 300 films of Incoming and Outgoing Passenger Lists for Victoria, whilst the films themselves are not indexed you can use them in conjunction with the PROV indexes. Included in these films and incoming fom other States that have not been indexed by PROV as well as Outging Passenger Lists to 1902 to1923 that haven't been indexed by PROV yet
The links below have links to Geelong Heritage Centre catalogues
http://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/ct/documents/item/8cbce06318238fb.aspx
http://www.geelongaustralia.com.au/ct/documents/item/8cc2b677f439b91.aspx
Andy
Thanks Andy, I'll pass on the info to my sister.
Alison :)
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the Tomatin entry is the one I thought fitted best; agewise and the fact that he was single at the time of emigration.[/i] ALISON
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0alr/
This is a shrunken link to a lenghty newspaper item of the mid 1850's
It deals with a legal case of "Breach of Marriage" with plaintiff FLORA CAMERON and defendant ROBERT MUIR.
He is described as a wealthy merchant who met FLORA when they both travelled on the same ship to Melbourne in 1853.
He was with his brother. I have had a quick try, but was not able to locate her on Tomotin. Someone else will perhaps.
You may like to read it and see if it is likely to be your ROBERT.
Prepare to be amused by the flowery love letters he wrote FLORA which were read out in Court and published in the article.
It goes onto page 6 of the paper. Use the arrows at the top of screen to "turn the page"
Sue
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travelled on the same ship to Melbourne in 1853.[/b]
The name of the above ship was "Malabar" arrived March 1853 - Port B - F/no 031 - This is on the Unassisted Passenger List to Victoria 1852 - 1923.
There are three Robert Muir's listed - ages 24 - 25 - 29 - could be all the same person?? - perhaps someone could check the manifest.?
Sarra :)
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the Tomatin entry is the one I thought fitted best; agewise and the fact that he was single at the time of emigration.[/i] ALISON
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0alr/
This is a shrunken link to a lenghty newspaper item of the mid 1850's
It deals with a legal case of "Breach of Marriage" with plaintiff FLORA CAMERON and defendant ROBERT MUIR.
He is described as a wealthy merchant who met FLORA when they both travelled on the same ship to Melbourne in 1853.
He was with his brother. I have had a quick try, but was not able to locate her on Tomotin. Someone else will perhaps.
You may like to read it and see if it is likely to be your ROBERT.
Prepare to be amused by the flowery love letters he wrote FLORA which were read out in Court and published in the article.
It goes onto page 6 of the paper. Use the arrows at the top of screen to "turn the page"
Sue
Thanks Sue, I'll check it out in a few days. The kids are home from uni and have used all my download, so internet has been slowed. Luckily I can still view RC with much the same speed but things like Trove are oh so slow and not really worth it. Roll on the 8th when my new month starts.
I'm back at home now and can access my records. It seems it is probably not my Robert. He married on 31 Dec 1857 (not 1855 as I said in the original post) in North Melbourne and his occupation was carpenter. Still, it will be interesting reading.
Cheers Alison
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The name of the above ship was "Malabar" arrived March 1853 - Port B - F/no 031 - This is on the Unassisted Passenger List to Victoria 1852 - 1923.
There are three Robert Muir's listed - ages 24 - 25 - 29 - could be all the same person?? - perhaps someone could check the manifest.?
Sarra :)
I have a birthdate of 28 Oct 1828, Greenock, SCO, so in 1853, he would be 24-25 if he arrived in 1853. He was a joiner.
I have him in the 1851 Scottish Census, living at 10 Bearhope St, Parish Greenock West. His parents both died in Greenock in the 1870s. His brothers in the 1851 census are James 25 (so born c1826) and David 20 (so born c1831). I don't know when he emigrated, but has to be between 1851-1857 because of census and marriage. I don't know if he travelled alone, but if someone is able to check the manifest, we may get more clues.
His future wife Helen Morton arrived on the "Eliza Stewart" in Jan 1854, along with her brother James. She was from Ladybrow, Galston, SCO.
I wonder how many Robert Muirs there are of around the same age? Therein lies a problem - lots ???
Cheers,
Alison :D
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Alison,
The names of the Muirs' listed on the "Malabar" are.....
MUIR Alex - age 21
" David - 23
" Robert - 24
" " - 25
" Mr Robert - 29
" WP - no age given
Sarra :)
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Alison,
The names of the Muirs' listed on the "Malabar" are.....
MUIR Alex - age 21
" David - 23
" Robert - 24
" " - 25
" Mr Robert - 29
" WP - no age given
Sarra :)
I've just checked PROV and found the above entry. Gee, you have to be lateral in your thinking when looking for records. I'd never thought of putting Robt for Robert. Comes with experience I guess. ::)
Whether this is our Robert and David, who knows? Their ages fit.
Alison :D
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I see a lot of his life with HELEN seems to be around NATHALIA.
Is this where he died?
Often information is revealed about immigration when an early colonist dies, we often see "A colonist of ...years, arrived on the...."
This can sometimes be in a newspaper of the time if a wordy obituary is written or even on a headstone in the cemetery.
I used the NLA Trove website and saw some financial difficulties for him in Nathalia in the 1890's and other bits and pieces.
Perhaps when your computer problems are sorted, you will see them too.
Sue
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Sue, you can find anything it seems.
Yes, Robert and Helen(Ellen) lived in Nathalia. I don't know when they moved there. I'm assuming it was after 1867, as their last child Agnes, was born in Sandridge in 1867. Robert died in 1912 and Helen in 1905. Both are buried there. I really should go and check out the headstones, if there is one. I'm only about an hour away. There are other rellies there, so it could be a productive trip.
I haven't tried "troving" him as I thought his name was too common. What did you put in their search engine, that brought up his information?
I wonder if anyone with Victorian bdm resources could see if they could find a death for David? It's a long shot, as I'm not even sure he emigrated and it is a common name. I'm just trying to rule in, or out, the David who came on the Malabar. He was born in 1830, Greenock, SCO of parents Robert Muir and Jane (nee McCunn).
Alison :)
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Hi
There are a great many DAVID MUIR's on the indexes and many of them list parents unknown.
This is just one of the possibles ....
MUIR, DAVID
Aged 84
father UK.
mother UK.
At Kilmore
Year 1911 #9566
For a Trove search I may have entered
"robert muir" (one space) +nathalia
That is what brought up the insolvency and other things about his business I think.
"morton muir" was perhaps another. Helen was known by that as her surname it seems.
Try "mrs r muir" +nathalia
And so on.
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10675882?searchTerm="morton muir"&searchLimits=
Sue
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mmm, I thought David Muir was a longshot :(
I'll keep the trove references for later. The aforementioned uni students have been told firmly that my genealogy is far more important than their music downloads. I'm the one who lives here, they only visit during holidays, so it's my download!! I really do love them dearly ;D ;D
Alison :D
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the Tomatin entry is the one I thought fitted best; agewise and the fact that he was single at the time of emigration.[/i] ALISON
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0alr/
This is a shrunken link to a lenghty newspaper item of the mid 1850's
It deals with a legal case of "Breach of Marriage" with plaintiff FLORA CAMERON and defendant ROBERT MUIR.
He is described as a wealthy merchant who met FLORA when they both travelled on the same ship to Melbourne in 1853.
He was with his brother. I have had a quick try, but was not able to locate her on Tomotin. Someone else will perhaps.
You may like to read it and see if it is likely to be your ROBERT.
Sue
It seems it is probably not my Robert. He married on 31 Dec 1857 (not 1855 as I said in the original post) in North Melbourne and his occupation was carpenter. Still, it will be interesting reading.
Cheers Alison
Certainly is an interesting read - it would be interesting to see the outcome of the trial. He certainly tried to let Flora down as gently as possible.
I will have my sister go to the Geelong Historical society and see if she can see the film for both the Malabar and the Tomatin arrivals in 1853. I think the only way we'll get to the bottom of this is with a copy of the original ship's log.
Hopefully they exist.
Cheers, Alison :)
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Malabar and the Tomatin arrivals in 1853. I think the only way we'll get to the bottom of this is with a copy of the original ship's log.
Alison - the manifest for the Malabar - does exist. I did manage to locate it at the Library. It does confirm that, what Robert Muir, says that he and his brothers travelled on the same ship, as Flora Cameron and her family.
I've come to the conclusion that - his brothers were - David and Alex - I say this because they are grouped together. There is no other information listed for Robert Muir and his brothers.
The other Robert Muir's - on the MALABAR -
Robert Muir - age 24 - Scotch - occupation farm lab/servant?
Mr Robert Muir - age 29 - no other information listed for him
SHIP LORD WARRISTON -
Robert MUIR - age 28 - Scotch - occ - Farmer - Contracted to land Melbourne - Port Phillip.
I think Deb has given you the information for the "Tomatin" 1853 - I did not look this one up - but I don't think it will give anymore information - than what Deb has posted.
So I guess you can rule out the Robert Muir who jilted Flora Cameron - as your Robert Muir. As to the others I don't know??.
Sarra
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Malabar and the Tomatin arrivals in 1853. I think the only way we'll get to the bottom of this is with a copy of the original ship's log.
Alison - the manifest for the Malabar - does exist. I did manage to locate it at the Library. It does confirm that, what Robert Muir, says that he and his brothers travelled on the same ship, as Flora Cameron and her family.
I've come to the conclusion that - his brothers were - David and Alex - I say this because they are grouped together. There is no other information listed for Robert Muir and his brothers.
The other Robert Muir's - on the MALABAR -
Robert Muir - age 24 - Scotch - occupation farm lab/servant?
Mr Robert Muir - age 29 - no other information listed for him
SHIP LORD WARRISTON -
Robert MUIR - age 28 - Scotch - occ - Farmer - Contracted to land Melbourne - Port Phillip.
I think Deb has given you the information for the "Tomatin" 1853 - I did not look this one up - but I don't think it will give anymore information - than what Deb has posted.
So I guess you can rule out the Robert Muir who jilted Flora Cameron - as your Robert Muir. As to the others I don't know??.
Sarra
Wow, thanks Sarra for going to the effort of the library search,
I agree, he's not the jilter but farmer doesn't really fit either. 1851 census-joiner and carpenter on marriage cert.
I have his date of death 18 Oct 1912 in Nathalia VIC. Perhaps there is someone with the resources who could give me a registration number and I could order his certificate. Hopefully it would tell me how long he had been in the colony.
Alison :)
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I have his date of death 18 Oct 1912 in Nathalia VIC. Perhaps there is someone with the resources who could give me a registration number and I could order his certificate. Hopefully it would tell me how long he had been in the colony.
Here's the info -
Robert MUIR - died 1912 #12955
Death Place - Barwo
Father - Robert
Mother - unknown MC Cunn.
Hope you find your Robert Muir.
Sarra
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Here's the info -
Robert MUIR - died 1912 #12955
Death Place - Barwo
Father - Robert
Mother - unknown MC Cunn.
Hope you find your Robert Muir.
Sarra
I hope so too. Thanks Sarra, Deb, Sue and Andy for all your help. I'll order the cert. today and if there's any additional info, I'll post on this thread for anyone else researching the same family.
Cheers,
Alison ;D ;D ;D
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I've just found his death notice:
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/10509236?searchTerm=robert%20muir%20nathalia&searchLimits=l-category=Family+Notices
The notice in the Argus 19 Oct 1912 states: "A colonist of 59 years". This matches an arrival year of 1853. I don't think his death cert. will tell me any more. I think I will have to be satisfied knowing which year he arrived, most probably on the Malabar.
Alison. ::)
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This is my first message to the forum so please accept any mistakes in sending.
Robert Muir (who arrived on the Ganges Khan) is one on my ancestors... Alexander Muir (who arrived on the same ship) was my GG Grandfather.
Alexander later returned to Greenock and died there.
Are you still looking for more information?
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Welcome to Rootschat kewyatt,
You'll find lots of friendly, helpful people here.
I had most likely ruled out the Robert Muir on the Ganges Khan because of what fellow RCers had found, but I would love to know any information you have about your Robert, so I can confirm it's not him. I think mine most likely came on the Malabar in 1853.
My Robert's parents were another Robert (1795-1873) and Jane McCunn (1802-1877). As far as I know, he didn't have a brother Alexander.
Cheers,
Alison ;D