RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: deeiluka on Thursday 05 November 09 08:52 GMT (UK)
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Yesterday a friend and I discovered a very old bible in a little shop in the nearby local town of Victor Harbor. The price was beyond our means but out of curiosity, we went in to see if it had names inside it. Sure enough it did, and the young woman in the shop didn’t realise the names were there. She’d looked in the front of the bible, but not the middle in between the Old Testament and the New Testament.
Very kindly she’s agreed to put it aside until Friday week, on the off chance that we can find a relation who would like it back. (She found it in a garage sale.) We’ve collected quite a bit of information, but I know some of you folks on the Aussie Board have access to records that I don’t.
I also realise that we’ll have to be careful about any possible living people, but we managed to do that on our wonderful Anzac thread, and I’m sure we can do it here too.
In the Bible the following family was documented…….
Ashley Clarke b May 2 1860
Caroline Jean Clarke b Jan 3 1871
d. Mar 15 1900
Married 7th Nov 1895 by Rev JH Goss
children
Edna Laura Clarke b 25 Aug 1896
Name rubbed out b Mar 8th 1900
More to come in the next message.........
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In the records, we’ve found……
Ashley CLARKE aged 35 and single married Caroline Jean BLACK aged 24 and single on 7th November 1895 at the residence of Mrs J Box, Wirreanda.
Fathers = James CLARKE & James BLACK
Ref = Fro 185/561
Ashley CLARKE and Caroline (Carrie) Jean BLACK had the following children……
Edna Laura CLARKE born 25th August 1896 at Laura
Ref = Cla 588/469
Caroline Myrtle CLARKE born 8th March 1900 at Hawker
Ref = Fro 656/142 (the rubbed out name)
We noted Caroline Myrtle’s mother Carrie died just a week later.
Caroline Jean CLARKE aged 29 of Uroonda, husband Ashley, died on 15th March, 1900 at Hawker.
Ref = Fro 268/445
So that backs up all the information from the old Bible.
We’ve also found the following……
Edna Laura CLARKE aged 24 and single married Leslie Mortimer BARNS aged 26 and single on 23rd July 1921 at St Pauls Church, Adelaide.
Fathers = Ashley CLARKE & William Alfred BARNS
Ref = Ade 288/182
We’ve found two births for this couple, but there’s the possibility the daughter is still living.
Keith Ashley BARNS born 17th February 1923 at Elliston.
Ref = Fli 112A/449
Daughter born 1828 North Adelaide
Then these deaths…..
Ashley CLARKE aged 73 and married of Colton died 1st August 1932 at Elliston.
Ref = Fli H 540/434
No relative listed.
Leslie Mortimer BARNS aged 78 of Seacliff Park and husband of Edna Laura BARNS died on 3rd March 1972 at Daw Park
Ref = Ade H 154A/879
From the SAGHS Newspaper notices database....
Edna Laura BARNS A 1978
Keith Ashley BARNS A 2001
We've found some other bits and pieces as well, and started on tracking Caroline Jean BLACK'S side of the family.
What we can't find and really need help with is finding any more information about the daughter Caroline Myrtle CLARKE born in 1900. We've failed to locate any further reference to her ....and we're also wondering about the erasing of her name from the Bible.
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Hi Dee,
Interesting the name being rubbed out.
Leslie Mortimer BARNES was cremated at Centennial Park
Keith Ashley BARNS was buried at Centennial Park
http://www.centennialpark.org.au/burial_memorial_search/
Cheers Kris :)
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Kris, the Bible is a very very large Presbyterian Bible......quite beautiful though in need of some repair. I wonder if Caroline Myrtle did something to upset her father. ??? :-\
Dee :)
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Hi Dee,
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au
15/3/1901 The Advertiser
There is an In Memorium for Caroline Jean CLARK
inserted by her
'Loving husband, brothers and sisters'
Is it unusual that the children aren't mentioned?
Raylen
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Hi Raylen. I saw that....and wondered if perhaps her Black family inserted it.
Or perhaps Ashley considered the children too young to be part of it. :-\
Dee :)
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Lovely Dee,
Sorry to say I am not finding anything helpful. (found the obit Raylen mentioned)
Perhaps as her birth seems to have taken her mothers life she was not brought up by her father. He certainly would have needed help with a newborn baby and a 4 year old. :'(
Hopefully something will turn up.
Kris :)
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Lovely Dee,
Sorry to say I am not finding anything helpful. (found the obit Raylen mentioned)
Perhaps as her birth seems to have taken her mothers life she was not brought up by her father. He certainly would have needed help with a newborn baby and a 4 year old. :'(
Hopefully something will turn up.
Kris :)
Especially in the part of the country where he was living.. . . . .
Thanks for trying Kris. I might just try a phone call to SAGHS to see if they'll check out the Advertiser death notices from 1984 and 2001....that could give a few clues.
It's a shame that SA Electoral Rolls aren't available like the other states......
The other thing we are doing is working on the BLACK family.....even a descendant of one of Caroline Jean's siblings might be interested in having the Bible.
Dee :)
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Hi Dee,
Would like to say I have something good to report but alas I do not. I spent some 4 1/2 hours in the library today but really didn't find anything helpful - my lunch date with daughter and friends ended up mid arvo (giving me more library time) but you would not believe it - I left the bag with my notes in it on the pram so my notes and me are now many miles apart. :'(
I will have to muff my way through this for now. Firstly, I was not able to get Edna's obit as it was not indexed at the library (they index funeral notices not death notices and it was not there) Then again neither was Keith's. I had not logged Keith's date to my notes but was able to get it by going out to the computer room and accessing the Centennial park site. I did not have Edna's date so could not get hers. :'(
Kris :)
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I checked 1900 Advertiser - no birth or death listed.
I found an obit for Ashley Clarke - no family mentioned resident of Elliston Hospital formerly of Uroonda
He appears in the electoral roll for Uroonda (Farmer) from I think 1914. Some entries he is the only Clarke but there are some entries where two other CLARKES appear Sometimes Ashley and ? Milton CLARKE (Farmer and Grazier) and a couple with three - the third was Richard CLARKE Labourer.
I did not find ant record of the daughter Caroline.
Kris
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Once I found the Electoral district it was not too difficult to check a few years. I found Ashley in the district of Eyre sub district Carrieton. Given Leslie being of Seacliffe Pk at death I did find him in one entry in the late 60's no occ listed - Thomas Street from memory. I wasn't having any luck so thought I would go back to 1938 (The first books, earlier ones are microfiche) Not too many books really so started going through them and lo and behold I found Leslie and Edna in Colton, Elliston District of Eyre. He was a farmer also Edna H/D. Rearmed I went back to the microfiche and found numerous entries from I think 1922-4 to 1949? at same address - Son Keith appeared in 1946. -Farmer also.
I do not believe Keith married - nothing in his obit to suggest a family. Leslie and Edna had 1 son and two daughters. Both daughters married but alas I only had husbands first names. There was an index to marriages in Eyre for later than we can readily access, but I could not find them listed so suspect the marriages were after the family left Colton. (Leslie and Edna did not appear in 1950 Elliston or later from memory)
Just spoke to my son who is going to go to my daughters to pick up my notes on his way home but alas as I said really have not achieved anything helpful. :'(
Kris :)
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Many thanks for all that effort, Kris. I appreciate it. :)
It seems that to track a direct descendant of Ashley and Caroline is going to be a very long shot.
I'm not going to give up just yet though. I found out that the garage sale was indeed local and I am going to browse the phone directory to see if any of the family names come up with that address.
I've also made big advances today with putting together the families of Caroline Jean (Black) Clarke's brothers and sisters....she had half siblings as well.
Thanks again......
Dee :)
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Morning Dee,
Obits
CLARKE: On 1 Aug at Elliston Hospital, Ashley Clarke late Pine Grove Uroonda aged 73 years. At Rest
BARNS Leslie Mortimer: On Feb 3 at Repat Hospital, dearl beloved husband of Edna Laura, Loving father of Keith, Valerie and Dorothy, father in lae of Roy and Scott, dear pappa of Robert, Geoffrey, Susan, Barbara and Jane. aged 78
Funeral notice mentions Leslie of 31 Thomas St Seacliffe ex 105 Battery Australian Artillery, 1st AIF (Sorry it was Leslie in the AIF not Keith - will remove above)
BARNS Keith Ashley: On Jan 14 2001 peacefully at QEH, beloved son of the late Edna and Mort BARNS and loving brother and brother in law of Valerie and Roy and Dorothy and Scott. Loved uncle of Robert, Jeffrey, Susan, Barbara, Jane and families
Funeral conducted at graveside Fri 19 Jan Centennial Park General C
Charles Berry and Son
198-204 Magil Road
Norwood
Cheers Kris :)
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Oh thankyou , Kris.....so there was another daughter for Edna Laura. :D
Lots of thoughts going through my head now. That obit. for Keith Ashley is the nearest thing to a real lead we have.....if I can find out who held the garage sale, there may be a link. It was held by a middle aged couple, so could well be one of Edna Laura's grandchildren.
Dee :D
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Electoral roll
Colton district of Eyre subdistrict Elliston 1922-1949
Leslier Mortimer BARNS - Farmer
Edna Laura BARNS Home - Duties
1946 Keith joined them - Farmer
31 Thomas St Seacliffe Park 1969 Leslie and Edna
Uroonda District of Eyre subdistrict Carrieton
CLARKE Ashley
1915 the only one
1916 and 1917
+
CLARKE Albert Milton (Farmer and Grazier
CKARKE Richard John - Lab
1918-1924 remove Richard John
1925-1927 Just Ashley.
1930 Barnsdale District Eyre Subdistrict Elliston
CLARKE Ashley - Retired Farmer
Cheers Kris :)
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Good luck Dee,
Since Keith's funeral was the most recent I grabbed the undertakers details.
As you can see in all, not a big result I am afraid.
Kris
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Hi all,
I am just in awe of all your efforts, if I could help, I would...
Many many kind thoughts from Moi...
JM
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Every little can help, Kris.....you never know what snippet will lead to a break through. 8)
Dee
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I've found nothing on online trees about this family, or any of the other families I've been searching in relation to them.
On the off chance that someone will google a name and see this, I'm going to post the information I've gathered about Caroline Jean born BLACK CLARKE and her parents and siblings.
James Rotherford BLACK aged 24 and single married Jean Ann GURR aged 23 and single on 10th October 1869 at the residence of William Gurr, Saddleworth.
Fathers = James Rotherford BLACK & William GURR
Ref = Gil 81/66
Children of this couple……
1. Caroline Jean BLACK born 3rd March 1871 at Saddleworth
Ref = Gil 92/228
2. Charles Robert BLACK born 22nd July 1874 at Laura
Ref = Cla 139/102
1925 & 1931 W A Electoral Roll
Charles Robert BLACK farmer Harrismith, Williams
Charles R BLACK died in WILLIAMS in 1931. Ref. No = 32
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3. Robert BLACK born 1st April 1876 at Laura
Ref = Cla 163/321
Died aged 2 days 2nd April 1876 at Laura
Ref = Cla 73/15
4. George Rutherford BLACK born 8th April 1877 at Laura
Ref = Cla 181/8
1925,1931,1936,1937 W A Electoral Roll
George Rutherford BLACK farmer Harrismith, Williams
Rose Edith Black Home Duties Harrismith, Williams
1943 W A Electoral Roll
George Rutherford BLACK Retired Scholl St
5. William Albert BLACK born 16th June 1879 at Arkaba
Ref = Fro 222/463
1925 W A Electoral Roll
William Albert BLACK farmer Harrismith, Williams.
1931, 1936, 1937 W A Electoral Roll
William Albert BLACK farmer nr Agricultural School, Narrogin
This family doesn’t appear in BISA.
James Rutherford BLACK aged 35 of Arkaba died at Arkaba on 2nd October 1879
Ref = Fro 97/469
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Jean Ann (GURR) BLACK remarried….
Jean Ann BLACK widow aged 36 married Charles Henry BOX single and aged 30 on 13th June 1882 at the residence of Mrs Black, Chapmanton.
Fathers = William GURR & William BOX
Ref = Fro A 131/1106
Children of Jean Ann (fmly) BLACK (nee) GURR & Charles Henry BOX……
1. William John Edwin BOX born 18th March 1883 at Chapmanton
Ref = Fro 301/93
2. Phillip Norman BOX born 8th June 1886 at Arkaba
Ref = Fro 419/455
3. Amanda BOX born 20 October 1884 at Arkaba
Ref = Fro 338/315
4. Charles Henry BOX born 28th July 1886 at Hawker
Ref = Fro 379/331
Jean Ann BOX aged 96 of Lockleys, widow of Charles Henry BOX, died on 22nd February 1943 at Lockleys.
Ref = Ade H 661/1066
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Following the children of Jean Ann GURR and James Rutherford BLACK …….
George Rutherford BLACK aged 33 and single married Rose Edith HARROLD on 13th July 1910 at the residence of Mr Harrold, Willow Plains.
Fathers = James Rutherford BLACK & William HARROLD
Ref = Fro 244/94
George Rutherford BLACK & Rose Edith HARROLD had four children between 1911 and 1918 whose deaths I haven't found, so there is a possibility they could be still living……..
George R BLACK died in WILLIAMS in 1942 Ref No = 85
I've not found marriages for the other brothers.
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Following the children of Jean Ann GURR & Charles Henry BOX ……
1. William John Edwin BOX aged 25 and single married Louisa Faith MATTHEWS aged 24 and single on 24th June 1908 at the Baptist Church, Orroroo.
Fathers = Charles Henry BOX & George MATTHEWS
Ref = Fro 235/701
William John Edwin BOX & Louisa Faith MATTHEWS had one daughter who may still be living.
Louisa Faith BOX aged 41, wife of John Edwin BOX, of Balaklava, died on 25th November 1925 at Croydon.
Ref = Hin 483/241
2nd marriage
William John Edwin BOX widower and aged 45 married Ada Jane MATTHEWS single and aged 42 on 9th February 1929 at the residence of Rev R Graham, West Croydon.
Fathers = Charles Henry BOX & George MATTHEWS
Ref = Hin 318/349
Ada Jane BOX aged 46, wife of William John Edwin BOX, of Balaklava, died on 8th June 1932 at Parkside.
Ref = Ade 539/73
He must have married a third time……
William John Edwin BOX aged 88, husband of Nellie BOX, of Largs North died 20th December, 1971 at Eastwood.
Ref = Nor H 149A/9411
This looks like her death….
Florence Margaret BOX aged 77, widow of John Edwin BOX, of Port Lincoln, died on 25th May 1972 at Woodville.
Ref = Hin H 165A/3696
Philip Norman BOX single aged 29 married Sarah MCINNES single aged 26 on 24th April 1918 at the Methodist Church, South Arkaba.
Fathers = Charles Henry BOX & Peter MCINNES
Ref = Fro 275/337
Philip Norman BOX & Sarah MCINNES had five children that I was able to find.
Amanda BOX single aged 23 married William Henry ADAMS single aged 28 on 12th February 1908 at the residence o the bride’s parents, Cradock.
Fathers = Charles Henry BOX & George ADAMS
Ref = Fro 234/280
Amanda BOX & William Henry ADAMS had ten children.
Amanda ADAMS aged 87, wife of William Henry ADAMS, of Nuriootpa, died 18th October, 1972 at Nuriootpa.
Ref = Ang H 182A/7837
Charles Henry BOX single aged 35 married Eva Elsie BOWERS single aged 27 on 19th July 1922 at the residence of C Bowers, Yangya.
Fathers = Charles BOX & Charles BOWERS
Ref = Cla 292/185
Charles Henry BOX & Eva Elsie BOWERS had 5 children that I know of.
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My friend and I are now the happy co-owners of the old Bible, which gives us much more time to try to achieve our goal of finding it a rightful home. The shop owner dropped her price to a level that the two of us could afford between us. :D :D
When my friend showed her the information we had put together so far, the shop owner realised that she had gone to school with one of the children. Unfortunately, they haven't kept in touch. :'(
Dee :)
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This is good news Dee,
If I can help, I will...
JM
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Ashley CLARKE aged 35 and single married Caroline Jean BLACK aged 24 and single on 7th November 1895 at the residence of Mrs J Box, Wirreanda.
Fathers = James CLARKE & James BLACK
Ref = Fro 185/561
Father of Ashley CLARKE was James CLARKE and I've just found the following in the Advertiser, 6th March 1912......
"Death
CLARKE. Ont the 5th March, at his daughter's home, (Mrs HARLAND), Victoria Terrace, Glenelg, James CLARKE, formerly of Cradock, aged 73 years. A colonist of 50 years. At rest."
That makes him about the right age and definitely from the right area to be the father of Ashley. Now to prove it...... or disprove it ::)
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Ashley CLARKE aged 35 and single married Caroline Jean BLACK aged 24 and single on 7th November 1895 at the residence of Mrs J Box, Wirreanda.
Fathers = James CLARKE & James BLACK
Ref = Fro 185/561
Father of Ashley CLARKE was James CLARKE and I've just found the following in the Advertiser, 6th March 1912......
"Death
CLARKE. Ont the 5th March, at his daughter's home, (Mrs HARLAND), Victoria Terrace, Glenelg, James CLARKE, formerly of Cradock, aged 73 years. A colonist of 50 years. At rest."
That makes him about the right age and definitely from the right area to be the father of Ashley. Now to prove it...... or disprove it ::)
I've done it!
Following on from finding that newspaper obit, I went back to the BMD and searched for all Clarkes born between 1850 and 1980 to the north of Adelaide with a father James. One likely couple came up and I found the marriage of their daughter Mary to John George Harland, so I had the right James of the obituary. No Ashley among the registered births however, though other names matched up.
Went back to BISA......and don't ask me how I missed the following, but I did.
James CLARKE born about 1837 in SCT and died in 1912.
He’d arrived by 1860.
Occupation =Grazier
He resided at Kapunda, Redhill, & Carrieton.
Religion = Methodist.
He married in 1860 to Bridget .
Bridget was born IRL and arrived in 1856.
Children =
Ashley born1860 died 1932 (twin)
John born 1860 (twin of Ashley)
2 children that died as infants
Mary
Ewen born 1863 died 1939
Albt Ed born 1867 died 1932
Frank
Edmund born 1873 died 1928
Ede
Agnes
So now to trace this family down........ ;) :D :D
Dee
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From the South Australian Indexes
The marriage….
James CLARKE aged 23 married Bridget DOHERTY aged 22 on 29th June 1859 at St John, Kapunda.
Fathers = Richard CLARKE & John DOHERTY
Ref = Kap 38/273
Seven of the children of James CLARKE & Bridget DOHERTY......
1. Francis CLARKE born 24th July 1861 at Possum Scrub.
Ref = Kap A 23/10
Francis CLARKE aged 4 months of OPossum Scrub died on 30th November at OPossum Scrub.
Father = James CLARKE
Ref = Kap F 13/385
2. Ewin CLARKE born 11th January 1863 at Opossum Scrub, Hd of Kapunda.
Ref = Kap 28/29
3. Frank CLARKE born 11th March 1864 at Opossum Scrub.
Ref = Kap 30/198
4. Mary Ann CLARKE born 20th September 1865 at Gilles Creek
Ref = Kap 38/33
5. Albert CLARKE born 3rd March 1867 at the Hd of Julia Creek.
Ref = Kap 51/419
6. Edmond CLARKE born 25th September 1873 at Gilles Creek.
Ref = Kap129/625
7. Agnes Cecilia CLARKE born 6th August 1877 at Narridy.
Ref = Cla 187/191
No amount of searching has found the missing children’s registrations, including that of son Ashley.
Bridget CLARKE aged 79, of Appila Yarrowie and wife of James CLARKE, died on the 10th October 1891 at Appila Yarrowie
Ref = Fro 197/152
James CLARKE aged 75 and widower of Glenelg died on 5th March 1912 at Glenelg.
Ref = Ade 363/446
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Photos of old Bible here....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=418998.msg2844670;topicseen#msg2844670
Dee :D
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Interesting from BISA (removed the duplicate Dee ;))
child mentioned - Ede
CLARKE Edith 4 Nov 1871 Gilles Creek Dist Kap 106 392 parents James CLARKE and Bridget SHEPHERD
Cheers Kris :)
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Did I post it twice Kris? :-[ ;D
Trying to do too many things at once here. ::)
That's an interesting birth.....how would you get Shepherd out of Doherty....but it looks like the right one, doesn't it?
Dee
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The only James Clark* b.c. 1837 in Scotland with father Richard that I've been able to find on the 1841 is living at 58 Hadden Street, Woodside, Old Machar, Aberdeen (168/12/11)
Richard Clarke, 38, linen bleacher
Kynoch, 37
Eliza, 10, linen spinner
Margt, 8
James, 4
All born Aberdeenshire
The usual sources list them in a very large household but the original page shows them as seperate - the houses in this part of Aberdeen are of the tenement type and would have had many families living in one house.
I can't find this family on the 1851.
Gadget
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Thanks Gadget. :D
If there's no sign of the family in 1851, and that is the James who is father of Ashley, maybe Richard etc also migrated..... I'll see if I can find anything here later today.
Dee :)
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Hi. Don't know if this helps you, but I have used the following method to get in contact with lost relatives.
Find the most recent burial/cremation you can.
Contact the cemetery/crematorium to find out which funeral company was used.
Contact the company stating you are trying to get in contact with the family. For privacy purposes they cannot give you any information. Just leave them your name and contact details and ask them if they could pass them on to the next of kin that they have on record.
As I say, this has worked for me twice. Good luck. Katharine.
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Thanks Katherine. :D :D
That thought is one of the possibilities we're considering, also the Funeral Director.
I'm still working on the Clarke family, and have quite a bit more information to post when I get it sorted. There seems to be some misinformation in one particular source of information, and it's taking me a while to work out what is what. It seems that some of the Clarke family also went to Western Australia.
What I'm really hoping is that someone googling will pick up on this thread, and make contact. That would simplify matters so much.
Dee :)
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Following the children of James CLARKE and Bridget DOHERTY ……
1. Albert CLARKE aged 26 and single married Frances Louisa SYMONS aged 26 and single at the residence of Mr Symons, Yednalue.
Fathers = James CLARKE & William SYMONS
Ref = Fro 177/331
Albert Edward CLARKE aged 65 of Cradock died on 4th March 1932 at Hawker.
Relative listed was his son A M CLARKE.
Ref = Fro H 537/5
From BISA…..
Albert Ed CLARKE born 2nd March1867 to Jas and Bridget CLARKE at Kapunda SA and died 4th March 1932 Adelaide SA.
He resided at Carrieton & Cradock.
Religion = Methodist.
He married Frances Louisa nee SYMONS on 25th October1893 at Yednalue SA.
Her parents were Wm and Jane nee DUNSTAN and she was born 5th March 1867 at Kapunda SA.
She died 10th April 1930 .
Children =
Albt Milton(1894-1976)
Edith Maude SOLLY (1895-1971),
Kenneth Norman (1899-1953)
Children of Albert Edward CLARKE & Francis Lousia SYMONS…..
1. Albert Milton CLARKE born 18th June 1894 at Eurilpa.
Ref = Fro 545/369
Albert Milton CLARKE aged 29 and single married Amy Ethel GRAHAM aged 30 and single on 5th April 1922 at the Methodist Church, Uroonda.
Fathers = Albert Edward CLARKE & Robert Johnson GRAHAM
Ref = Fro 291/45
2. Edith Maud CLARKE born 9th July 1895 at Uroonda
Ref = Fro 568/77
Edith Maud CLARKE aged 35 and single married Stanley Edgar SOLLY aged 34 and single on 12th November 1930 at the Methodist Church, Cradock.
Fathers = Albert Edward CLARKE & Reuben SOLLY
Ref = Fro 325/341
3. Kenneth Norman CLARKE born 3rd May 1899 at Yednalue.
Ref = Fro 641/190
Kenneth Norman CLARKE aged 31 and single married Lorne Heyward WARLAND aged 25 and single on 14th June 1930 at the Newland Memorial Cong Church, Victor Harbor.
Fathers = Albert Edward CLARKE & Albert Howard WARLAND
Ref = EnB 323/813
Kenneth Norman CLARKE aged 54 of Newland died on 27th December 1953 at Newland.
Ref = EnB 807/708
More to come......
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2. Edmund CLARKE aged 24 and single married Gertrude Annie SYMONS aged 21 and single on 23rd March 1898 at the residence of W Symons, Yednalue.
Fathers = James CLARKE & W SYMONS
Ref = Fro 194/1289
Children of Edmund CLARKE and Annie Gertrude SYMONS……
1. William Edmund CLARKE aged 8 years of Yednalue died 24th February 1915 at Port Augusta.
Father = Edmund CLARKE
Ref = Fro H 391/137
Plus a son and daughter born between 1913 and 1917 whose deaths I haven't located......
More to come......
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4. Ewen CLARKE aged 39 and single married Edith Priscilla SYMONS aged 28 and single on 6th August 1902 at Yednalue Station, Yednalue.
Fathers = James CLARKE & William SYMONS
Ref = Fro 212/439
From BISA......
Edwin CLARKE born 11th January1863 to Jas and Bridget at Kapunda SA
And died 23rd March 1939 in Pingelly, WA.
0ccupation = Farmer
Married 6th August 1902 at Yednalue SA to Edith Priscilla nee SYMONS (?) who was born 17th November 1873 in Jamestown, SA.
Her parents = Wm and Jane nee DUNSTAN
Edith died 13th February 1952 in Pingelly, WA
Children =
Ewen John (1904-),
Norman Vernon (1906-)
Herbt Newton(1908-)
Wilson Jas (1910-),
Milton Ian (1915-)
*It appears to me this BISA entry does not match at all with information I’m finding in other records, and that it is Ewen Clarke, not Edwin Clarke.
In 1906 Ewen CLARKE, contractor, and Edith Priscilla, home duties are at Hubert St, Guildford.
In 1925 Ewen CLARKE, is a farmer at “Watervale Farm”, North Wandering, Pingelly.
In 1931, 1936 & 1937 Ewen CLARKE, farmer and Edith Priscilla CLARKE, home duties are both at “Watervale Farm”, North Wandering, Pingelly.
In 1947 & 1949 Edith Priscilla Clarke, home duties, is at North Wandering Road, Pingelly.
Ewen CLARKE died in 1939 in MURRAY
Ref =11
Edith P CLARKE died in BEVERLEY in 1952
Ref = 11
Pingelly Cemetery Transcriptions
Ewen CLARKE, aged 78 years. 23 Mar 1939.
Methodist Grave No. 148
Edith Priscilla CLARKE, aged 79 years, 13 Feb 1952.
Wife of Ewen. - Methodist Grave No. 153
Their children......
1. Ewen John CLARKE born in 1904 in GUILDFORD
Parents = Ewen CLARKE & Edith Priscilla SYMONS
Ref = 6531 Ewen J. CLARKE married H. Joyce McENTYRE in 1938 in Perth.
Ref = 217
In 1931 Ewen John CLARKE is a teacher at Government School, West Pingelly.
In 1936 & 1937 Ewen John CLARKE is a teacher at Strahan.
In 1943 Ewen John CLARKE is a teacher at Government School , Doodlakine. Wife Joy, home duties, is with him.
By 1949 Ewen John CLARKE is a farmer at Spencer’s Brook,
EWAN JOHN CLARKE aged 67 died 25th September 1971 at MELVILLE
Grant Number = K0072838
Grantee = FRANCES JOY CLARKE
Buried in KARRAKATTA CEMETERY
2. Norman V CLARKE born in 1906 in BEVERLEY
Ref =81
Norman V. CLARKE married Beryl A. CHITTLEBOROUGH in 1938 in Beverley
Ref = 7
In 1931, 1936 & 1937 Norman Vernon CLARKE is a farmer in West Pingelly.
In 1947 & 1949 Norman Vernon CLARKE is a farmer in West Pingelly. Wife Beryl Arbon CLARKE, home duties, is with him.
Norman Vernon CLARKE served in the Australian Army during WW2.
His date of birth was given as 28th July 1906 and his Next of Kin as Beryl CLARKE,
Norman Vernon CLARKE aged 55 parents EWEN & EDITH P died in PERTH in 1962
Ref =311
NORMAN VERNON CLARKE aged 55 died 16th January 1962 at KENWICK KB00118529
Buried at Karrakatta Cemetery
Grant Number = K0059525
Grantee = BERYL ARBON CLARKE
More to come......
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More children of Ewen CLARKE and Edith Priscilla SYMONS......
3. Herbert N CLARKE born 1908 in BEVERLEY
Ref = 89
Herbert Newton CLARKE born 13th June 1908 and baptised 19th July 1908 in Pingelly.(Methodist # 278)
Parents given as Ewen and Edith Priscilla CLARKE.
Possible marriage for Herbert…..
Herbert N. CLARKE married Hannah E. BOYES in Yilgarn in 1940
Ref =15
In 1931, 1936 & 1937 Herbert Newton CLARKE is a farmer at North Wandering Rd, Pingelly.
Herbert N CLARKE died in BEVERLEY in 1941
Ref =37
4. Wilson J CLARKE registered 1911 in BEVERLEY
Ref =3
Wilson James CLARKE born 3rd November 1910 and baptised 25th December 1910 in Pingelly. (Methodist No #278)
Parents listed as Ewen CLARKE and Edith Priscilla.
1936, 1937, & 1947 & 1949 Wilson James CLARKE is a farmer at Watervale, Pingelly.
1954 Wilson James CLARKE is retired at Sharrow or Sparrow St, Pingelly. Wife Elma Evelyn, home duties, is with him.
Wilson James CLARKE served in the Australian Army in WW2. His date of birth was given as 3rd November 1910.
Next of kin was given as Elma CLARKE
Pingelly Cemetery Transcriptions
Wilson James CLARKE, aged 72 years. 12 Jul 1983.
Husband of Elma Methodist Grave No. B55
Elma Evelyn CLARKE, aged 87 years. 25 Jun 1993.
Wife of Wilson. - Methodist Grave No. B55
Morris Ewen CLARK, aged 1 day. 20 Jun 1943.
Son of Elma and Wilson. - Methodist Grave No. 148
Newton Harold CLARK,aged 33 years. 20 Jun 1941.
Son of Elma and Wilson. - Methodist Grave No. 153
* This is obviously a transcription error.
5. Child 5 could still be living. I haven't as yet found a death for him. he married and had at least three children.
More to come......
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This is the only other child of James CLARKE and Bridget DOHERTY that I have managed to track at this stage........
5. Mary CLARKE aged 19 and single married John George HARLAND aged 28 and single on the 5th March 1885 at the Wesleyan Church, Quorn.
Fathers = James CLARKE & John George HARLAND
Ref = Fro 142/1052
Children of Mary CLARK & John George HARLAND…….
1. Sydney James HARLAND born 9th July 1885 at Eurilpa
Ref = Fro 355/194
Sidney James HARLAND aged 32 and single married Jessie May MCARTHUR aged 25 and single on 20th March 1918 at the Methodist Church, Cradock.
Fathers = John George HARLAND & Archibald MCARTHUR
Ref = Fro S 274/569
Sidney James HARLAND aged 33 resident of Knightsbridge died on 30th May, 1919 at Knightsbridge.
Ref = Nor 428/557
Sydney James HARLAND & Jessie May MCARTHUR had a daughter who may still be living.
2. Edith HARLAND born 4th September 1887 at Eurilpa
Ref = Fro 421/180
3. Cecil George HARLAND born 3rd October 1890 at Adelaide
Ref = Fro 467/420
John George HARLAND aged 34 of Eurilpa died on 23rd September 1891 at Eurilpa.
Information given by Jas CLARKE, his father in law.
Ref = Fro 196/358
Mary Ann HARLAND aged 47 and a widow married Ernest Robert NYE aged 46 and a widower 14th February 1917 at Adelaide.
Fathers = James CLARKE & Robert Ernest NYE
Ref = Ade 270/263
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I think I've found a picture of James Clarke....what a pity I can't post it on here. :-\
Dee
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One branch of the original James Clarke - Bridget Doherty family still lives in the Hawker district (there may be other branches there that I haven't come across). These are the descendants of Ashley's brother, Albert, sometimes listed in records as Albert Edward Clarke. Historically, they have variously been involved with properties in the Carrieton, Cradock, Pine Grove and Yednalue areas. More info if needed.
Frank
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Many thanks for your post, Frank. :D :D
If it is information about living people, you can always send it to me via the PM system......please don't post it on this thread as it would break Rootschat rules.
Any more information will be welcome. We realised that the families had been involved in the early settlement of those areas, and I had found phone numbers and names that made me wonder if there were relatives still living there.
I've also found some possible contacts for descendants in Western Australia. However, my friend and I decided that we'd put this project on hold in regards to trying to contact anyone until the New Year due to other commitments.
What we'd really like is to find a descendant who is interested in the family history, or who knows one who is interested.
Have you seen the pictures of the old bible on the link in an earlier message?
Dee :)
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Frank has very kindly PMed me with the information he has that can't be posted on here, and later today, I'll be sending off an email to a descendant of one of Ashley Clarke's brothers.
I'll let you all know the outcome!
Rootschat comes through again! :D :D :D :D :D
Dee....who feels like Christmas has come early. ;)
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I've just discovered this wonderful thread.
Yet another fantastic result! Well done Dee! Amazing! ;D
Yes, please keep us posted on any developments ....
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Also a well done from me. :D :D
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Ruskie and Cando. :D :D
I've now spoken to one of Ashley Clarke's great great nieces about the Bible. She has since contacted her father, and they are both quite excited about the Bible, and we'll be in touch again in the New Year, and possibly plan to meet up when it can be arranged. We do live an awfully long way apart. ;)
When I was posting all the information on this thread, I felt a bit silly in some ways, but I'm very glad I did it, as it has ended in a great result.
Dee :D
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I have been following this thread ....... what a wonderful result of detective work ... :D
Well done ...... someone above was with you the day you entered the shop and drew you to the bible. :)
Cheers
KHP
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I went back to the shop today to tell the owner what had resulted, because she wanted to know, but she wasn't working today. I'll try to go back again one day after Christmas.
Not sure with exactly whom yet, but one way of another, the Bible will be going back to one of Ashley's relatives....... :D
Dee
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I've had contact with Ashley Clarke's gg-niece, who met up with her elderly father over Christmas.
As a result we now know what happened when Ashley's wife died in 1900 leaving the four year old Edna and the week old baby Caroline Myrtle. Quoting from the email....
"He says both girls were looked after and brought up by Mrs Box, their maternal grandmother. " :D :D
And there's more.....Caroline Myrtle (and I quote again) "stayed as companion and carer to her grandmother until Mrs Box died at age 96 I think from your research. She then took a job with the Royal family (he thinks somewhere south east of Adelaide but not sure where exactly.) It was possibly as a house keeper because she married Mr Royal. She did not have any children. "
:D :D :D
So little Caroline Myrtle didn't die in infancy or get adopted or anything else. Now I'll see what I can track down as a result of this. ;)
Dee
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Well.....after all the searching for information, it seems there is a possibility that the old Bible may have been in the hands of Caroline Myrtle until her death. But if so, that makes it very strange that her name was rubbed out.
I found the death of her husband, Horace Frederick ROYAL, aged 87 , of Victor Harbor, on 25th June 1969 at Victor Harbor. Widow was Caroline Myrtle ROYAL.
Ref = EnB H 70A/4324
SAGHS Cemetery index database has Caroline Myrtle ROYAL as being buried in 1977.
And on a cemetery site I've found them both buried in Victor Harbor.
Perhaps it was Royal in laws that put the old Bible in that garage sale!
Dee :D :D
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WOW this is just an amazing story, love following it... :)
Daizi
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Hi again Dee,
Good Work ;D
In Loving Memory
of
HORACE [UNC] ROYAL
Beloved Husband of Myrtle
Born 3-10-1882 Died 25-6-1969
also
CAROLINE MYRTLE
Wife of Above
Born 8-3-1900 Died 13-9-1977
Cheers Kris :)
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Thanks, Daizi, and brilliant, Kris!
I'll keep working on tracking down descendants of the older daughter now. :D
But I'm also sure my friend and I will be taking a trip to the cemetery in Victor Harbor to see if we can locate the grave. It would be nice to put a photograph with the old Bible and the information we've found.
Dee :)
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I have been watching from a distance.
Just wanted to congratulate all you genie sleuths! What a great job, you should be proud of yourselves ;)
Well done! ;D ;D ;D
Regards
Alison
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Still following this story. :)
And VERY curious why Caroline's name was rubbed out. Family disagreement perhaps?
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Still following this story. :)
And VERY curious why Caroline's name was rubbed out. Family disagreement perhaps?
Maybe Ruskie. :-\
I've just had another email from Ashley Clarke's gg-niece......she has a possible explanation along those lines, though no proof.....
I quote....
"I have a theory that she may have rubbed her own name out of the bible. The memorium you discovered in 1901 for Caroline Jean Clarke did not mention her mother or daughters. This suggests there may have been ill feeling between Ashley and his mother in law. As the younger daughter lived with her grandmother for many years she may have only heard bad things about her father and decided she didnt want to be included in his bible. Oh well only a theory. We will never know."
Dee :)
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Oh Dee, what a great story.
Thanks for keeping us up to date!
Judith
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Um, Interesting .... :)
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Ashley's gg-niece has also been in touch with the Orroroo Historical Society who are a very active group who collect all kinds of family history materials for their museum. It seems they would be most interested in having the old Bible, and any relevant history we've collected. It's certainly a possibility.
Orroroo is the area where many of the small towns mentioned in the family history we've collected are , and we know it would be cared for there, and not end up in another garage sale.
So now we have to decide whether to continue seeking a descendant, or whether to donate it to the Historical Sociery.
Dee :)
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This story is wonderful. However I am writing to ask if you could look in the bible and transscribe everything you have on the linnell's of Northants that should be in the bible. Thanks
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Welcome to Rootschat, jlinnell..... :)
I'm sorry but there is no mention of Linnells in this particular bible, and I've not come across any mention of the Linnell name in research of the Clarke family.
I myself do have Linnells from Northamptonshire in my family.....
Dee :)
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thats wonderful, I am a Linnell from Robert Linnell who boarded a ship with his spouse and children in Kent and landed in Massachusets of the USA. I have been looking into all the Linnell's of Eng. in hopes of finding his parents or siblings he arrived in America in the mid 1600's. So what I have done is made a file for every Linnell group that I can link to each other and then another Linnell File that I cant link to and now have over 200 files that dont link to each other (lol). and since I have a Clarke and a Linnell married I thought they might be in the bible. Oh well, anyways if you are willing to share your Linnell family with me you can pm me.
Thanks JLinnell
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Update to this story......
My friend and I, following on from the exchange of information between us and Ashley Clarke's great great niece, have decided that the Orroroo Historical Society is probably the best home for the Old Bible. Later in the year, when the weather is more appropriate to go inland, and when family commitments permit, we'll be making a trip to deliver the Bible and the history we've found.
In the meantime, the Old Bible Challenge is going to feature in the local History Week presentation done by our little family history group, and you can be sure that Rootschat's part in the challenge will get quite a mention. :D
Dee :)
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This has been a great thread - excellent work!
And what a good result.
Judith
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Exciting news......a photo of Ashley Clarke has come to light....... :D :D :D
Dee :)
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Exciting news......a photo of Ashley Clarke has come to light....... :D :D :D
Dee :)
Oooo .... he looks very suave and good looking. ;)
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I've only just joined this forum, and was very pleased to discover someone had already been doing some work of interest to me.
There's mention of Mary Clarke marrying John George Harland. Their son Sydney James was my grandfather - unfortunately he died in the Spanish Flu epidemic (while nursing his mother and sister, who both survived) before my mother was born. My full name, by the way, is John Harland Pryzibilla.
My current interest is to find out what happened to the second child - Edith Harland. I can't seem to find any marriage or death records, and the family oral history was silent on this.
It's of particular interest right now because if I can track down any female descendants of hers they are needed for DNA matching with WW1 bodies recently found and formally reburied at Fromelles in Northern France, which is where the third son of the marriage (Cecil George Harland) was killed.
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Hello John,
Welcome to Rootschat. :D
I'm afraid I have no other information about Edith Harland at this stage., but if the information on this thread has been of help to you in other ways, I'm glad you came across it. We have really enjoyed the search and the challenge.
Did you know that there have been threads on Rootschat to try to find descendants of those thought to be among the Fromelles bodies? We have had success with several.
I hope you have some success with your hunt for information about Edith, and if any of us find anything, we'll surely post it on here.
Dee :)
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Hi John,
Supporting Dee's welcome :D
And here's the RChat link to some of the searches on RChat for the Fromelles missing
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,380152.0.html
I too hope you have some success with your hunt for information about Edith, and if I find anything, I'll post it here.
Cheers,
JM
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I think I have the missing threads for the family of Edna Laura Clarke for deeiluka..sorry i'm new to this and got to here buy chance when Googling my wifes grandmother. Would love to fill in the gaps for an addition to the Bible story. Edna married Mort "Leslie" Barns as reported but had 4 children, Kieth, Valerie, Dorothy and a still born boy at Colton on west coast eyre penninsula.
Dorothy had three girls who all remember Aunty Myrtle. I'm not sure how all this works but I'd love to help complete the picture for dee. Cheers
Threads Merged
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Welcome to Rootschat, Physio. :)
It’s really good to hear from you, and we’d love to hear more from you. I’m quite excited, and I’m sure the others involved in this will be too.
If you post a couple more times on this thread, you’ll be able to use the Personal Message system, and that’s the only place we can exchange information that needs to be kept private, such as email addresses, information about people who may still be living etc etc.
Dee :)
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Hi Dee
As by chance my husband came across the information about the Old Bible Challenge and I am quite excited about being in contact. My great grandfather was Ashley Clarke and information on this side of the family has been a little sketchy. When my grandfather (Leslie) died, my grandmother Edna moved to Victor Harbor to be closer to her sister Caroline (or Aunty Myrtle as I knew her). When Myrtle and Edna died, a lot of their possessions were given away without our knowledge so I am interested to hear about the destination of the Old bible. I will keep in contact so will hopefully be able to use the PM contacts to exchange details.
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Physio,
We've had a wonderful time finding out Ashley Clarke's family tree, as you can see. It's also been good to actually be in contact, both on here and on the phone, with another Clarke descendant through one of Ashley's brothers.
At this stage we haven't made it to Orrorro, as I became a full time carer.
Did you find the link to the thread with the photos of the old bible?
One more message and we can use the personal message system. :)
Dee :)
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Thanks Dee for your reply
I am so excited finding out more about my grandmothers side of the family and my mother who is quite frail and recently moved into a nursing home has picked up since hearing this news. She is very keen to fill me in with a lot of family history when we visit her at Christmas time.
I look forward to hearing from you soon.
JD
PS I have seen the photo of Ashley Clarke that was posted in my mothers photo album and I agree he is very good looking!! :)
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I've now spoken to Physio and there are some very exciting developments for this thread.
We'll update the thread and let you know what happens.
Dee :D
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I've teared up reading the last few posts. :'(
What a wonderful, heartwarming story.
Mo
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Thank you to the owners of the Old Bible for your warm hospitality and for inviting me to view the bible at short notice. The slide presentation that you made is fantastic and fills in a lot of gaps of our family tree. I took my computer along with the disk and showed my mother the next day which was very exciting. Although her short term memory is quite fuzzy she immediately recognised the bible from her childhood on the farm at Colton. This maybe confirms that the bible was in the possession of my Grandmother Edna and not Caroline Myrtle as originaly thought. I also showed mother the photo I took of the pressed flower that we discovered in the bible that day which apparently fits as Edna spent a lot of time pressing flowers.
As for the name rubbed out, this still remains a mystery. Mother told me she remembers a death of an infant but I wonder if she is confused with the death of her mother's (Edna) son at Colton. We know there was no ill feelings between Edna and Caroline and as far as we know their were no other disputes.
We are still trying to gather old photos to post but I have come across a photo I took 14 years ago of Ashley Clarke's headstone at Colton. If anyone is interested let me know and I will post it on the site.
Happy New Year to all and thank you JD
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Hello JD,
You and your family were most welcome, and I'm so glad your mother enjoyed the Powerpoint presentation we did for History Week about the old Bible and our search.
It was most interesting to hear that your grandmother Edna (nee Clarke) is also buried in Victor Harbor.
We'll definitely be in touch with you again once we've been in touch with the folk in the area where Ashley and Caroline's families lived before they married. We'll try to arrange for you to contact them.
And I'm sure we'd love to have a photo of Ashley's headstone on the thread.
Dee :)
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I have been reading this thread today and wow how awesome. I would love to know where the bible finally ends up :)
and i am glad that JD's mother picked up on hearing of her family history :) such a lovely thing to hear.
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My friend and I had previously decided where the Bible was going, but due to family circumstances in the past year we hadn't been able to make the long trip to deliver it. Now we are torn two ways, and will have to do some serious talking, negotiating and thinking about it's future home. :)
Dee :)
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Hi Dee
reading these posts i can understand the dilema :) it will be a hard decision regardless.
while having it in a museum where everyone can see it, is a lovely idea. I personally think the people who would appreciate it most would be the family that it belongs too. but thats just my two bobs worth. will wait to hear the outcome :)
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:) Hi Dee
Please dont feel pressured with your decision. We are so truly grateful that you purchased the bible and that it didnt end up with a dealer. Your final decision will honestly be respected.
I am trying to post the photo of Ashley's headstone but without any luck. Any tips on what I'm doing wrong would be grateful.
As I mentioned the photo (which is not very good) was taken at Colton Cemetry 14 years ago which is a 3 hour drive from Pt Lincoln. My husband and I had a terrible time trying to find it as it is very small, on top of a hill and through a farm gate. I am still unsure why Ashley moved to Colton but I am trying to find that information out with Mother but prying her for information slowly not to overwhelm her too much. There are quite a few Barns' buried there including my mother's infant brother. Still no luck with photo but will keep trying.
JD :D
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I am trying to post the photo of Ashley's headstone but without any luck. Any tips on what I'm doing wrong would be grateful.
JD :D
Hi JD,
perhaps your photo file size is too large. It needs to be under 500kb. The following link may help.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html
This has been a fascinating thread to follow.
Cheers,
Alison :) :)
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Thank you Alison I will give it a try now.
JD :)
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Im trying again but really having no luck with this photo
JD :(
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Congratulations JD,
you got there in the end
Alison :) :) :)
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:) Thanks Alison. If not for your help I would not have got there!!
JD :) :) :)
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Hi Dee and JD i didnt mean to hurt anyones feelings so if i have then i apologise
JD congrats on getting the photo uploaded. its so amazing to see all this history
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:) Hi AussieMumwif4kids (I so love that name!!).
You certainly didnt hurt my feelings and I do appreciate your comments and support.
I'm a strong believer in fate which is I'm sure how my husband by chance came across this site and if anything is to come of this, I have loved learning about my Family tree which as an AussieMumwif3kids, I just havent had time to do. It has also helped my beautiful mum.
My comments to Dee were only to reassure her that that what ever the fate of the Bible, I'm sure will be the right decision.
Im so glad the photo worked!!
JD :)
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:) Hi Dee
After looking at Ashley's headstone, do you think it's strange that there are no names on it? I wonder if you have any conection that could help me find out if there was a rift in the family. I might pry my mother a little. This is your fault I have become obsessed!!!
JD :)
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:) Hi Dee
I have just had the best day and needed to share it will all who have been following this story.
today I visited my sister on her farm and took the power presentation to show her and I knew she would just love it. My sister out of all our family is the sentimental one and loves any family tree information which she has done previously with the Barns side of the family.
After the presentation she suddenly remembered our mother giving her a box of old photos about 20 years ago which we excitedly found and pulled out.
BINGO!!! We have the most amazing collection of Edna's old photos which I have brought home to scan. Im quite sure that other relatives that have been involved in this story would love copies and I recognise names from previous posts. Some photos include: Edith Harland who mackinharland had enquired about, Cecil Harland, Grandma Box, Caroline Black, George Black and numerous of Ashley Clarke and young photos of Edna and Caroline (Myrtle). My sister and I though it would by great to get copies of these photos into the family section of the bible. What do you think? :)
JD :) :)
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wow how awesome for u:) how amazing to find that box of photos :) such a bonus to u all.
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How amazing, JD.....this story getsmore exciting all the time! :D :D :D
And well done posting the gravestone photo....Thanks AussieMum for helping JD out......I've been missing due to family commitments.
And I've appreciated your contributions to the thread.
Dee :)
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:) Hi Dee
After looking at Ashley's headstone, do you think it's strange that there are no names on it? I wonder if you have any conection that could help me find out if there was a rift in the family. I might pry my mother a little. This is your fault I have become obsessed!!!
JD :)
As soon as I get time, JD, I shall get back in touch with the other Clarke descendant with whom I've been in contact previously and see if she can throw any light on the situation.
Dee :)
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:) Hi Dee
I have just had the best day and needed to share it will all who have been following this story.
today I visited my sister on her farm and took the power presentation to show her and I knew she would just love it. My sister out of all our family is the sentimental one and loves any family tree information which she has done previously with the Barns side of the family.
After the presentation she suddenly remembered our mother giving her a box of old photos about 20 years ago which we excitedly found and pulled out.
BINGO!!! We have the most amazing collection of Edna's old photos which I have brought home to scan. Im quite sure that other relatives that have been involved in this story would love copies and I recognise names from previous posts. Some photos include: Edith Harland who mackinharland had enquired about, Cecil Harland, Grandma Box, Caroline Black, George Black and numerous of Ashley Clarke and young photos of Edna and Caroline (Myrtle). My sister and I though it would by great to get copies of these photos into the family section of the bible. What do you think? :)
JD :) :)
I've got all sorts of ideas running through my head, JD........maybe we could collaborate in putting together a history package for the Museum such as all the family history information we've collected, a CD of the Old Bible presentation, and a CD of photos.......and maybe the bible itself should come back to direct family. The idea would have to be run past my friend Joan, and I'd also want to talk about it with the other Clarke contact, but that to me is beginning to sound like a good solution.
Dee :)
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Hi Dee :)
Welcome back and I hope all is ok on the home front. Your idea sounds great and my sister and I would love to put together a history of the family. It was so wonderful to find those photos today and am so excited to be able to share them with the extended family.
I am trying (again) to attach some photos just to give you a snippet of what we found today. Edna (god bless her) named all the photos and included ages and dates on most.
The 1st photo is of Caroline Jean Clarke(nee Black) and the 2nd is of Edna (L) & Myrtle (R). They are amazingly very different in their looks.
After you have spoken to other family members we will keep in touch. If you hear of anyone that would like a copy of the photos please let me know.
JD :) :) :) :)
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:D I just cant help myself I am so excited that I forgot to add something which I am hoping someone could give me some light on....
When we were going through Edna's box of goodies we came across a little box. In it were 2 little (very hard to describe!!) items which almost looked like pressed flowers. Edna had them wrapped in hankies with a written note describing them as: "The small one is my own hair and the big one is my mother's hair" They were absolutely beautiful and obviously dear to my Grandma after her mother's death. They almost looked liked a brooch. I will take a photo as they were quite unusual. It would be wonderful to hear from anyone who has ever come across such a thing.
JD
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:D I just cant help myself I am so excited that I forgot to add something which I am hoping someone could give me some light on....
When we were going through Edna's box of goodies we came across a little box. In it were 2 little (very hard to describe!!) items which almost looked like pressed flowers. Edna had them wrapped in hankies with a written note describing them as: "The small one is my own hair and the big one is my mother's hair" They were absolutely beautiful and obviously dear to my Grandma after her mother's death. They almost looked liked a brooch. I will take a photo as they were quite unusual. It would be wonderful to hear from anyone who has ever come across such a thing.
JD
I have heard of this kind of thing before. I did a bit of googling and found this - it's called "hair work jewellery" and it's rather lovely:
http://www.morninggloryantiques.com/JewelChatHair.html
Are these similar to Ednas?
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oh my gosh what an amazing idea.. perhaps its something we can bring back into fashion :)
i love ur photos of caroline, edna and murtle, they are soo pretty :) i so love to look at old photos. thank u so much for sharing them.
I have just loved watching this story unfold. :)
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Thanks AussieMum and Ruskie for your reply :) Yes the hair jewellery is just like shown in the site you posted Ruskie. Thankyou. It really is quite amazing and I would'nt have known what it was if Edna hadnt wriitten about it.
I might take some photos to share with you.
Quite amazing
JD :)
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Hi Dee :)
Welcome back and I hope all is ok on the home front. Your idea sounds great and my sister and I would love to put together a history of the family. It was so wonderful to find those photos today and am so excited to be able to share them with the extended family.
I am trying (again) to attach some photos just to give you a snippet of what we found today. Edna (god bless her) named all the photos and included ages and dates on most.
The 1st photo is of Caroline Jean Clarke(nee Black) and the 2nd is of Edna (L) & Myrtle (R). They are amazingly very different in their looks.
After you have spoken to other family members we will keep in touch. If you hear of anyone that would like a copy of the photos please let me know.
JD :) :) :) :)
That is so fortunate that all the photos were named, JD.........so many of us have collections of old un-named photographs.
How wonderful to put faces to some of the people we've discussed on this thread.
And what an amazing find of the hair jewellery among the photos.
Dee :)
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:) Hi Dee
After looking at Ashley's headstone, do you think it's strange that there are no names on it? I wonder if you have any conection that could help me find out if there was a rift in the family. I might pry my mother a little. This is your fault I have become obsessed!!!
JD :)
ROFL here......join the club, JD.....many Rootschatters are similarly obsessed! ;D ;D ;D
I spent last night researching the old newspapers and have collected heaps of clippings with my "snip" tool about the Clarkes etc of Craddock. It's amazing how the snippets really tell much of the story of that area.
For example.......
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Hi ROFL :D..what an amazing newspaper snippet. This may shed some light on why Ashley Clarke moved to the West Coast and I'm aware from this thread that some moved to WA.
My mother has been quite poorly so I havent been able to "pry" further at this stage, but I will keep those interested posted.
:)
JD
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I hope ur mum feels better soon *hugz*
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OH JD......every good wish for your Mum.
This can wait until things are better for you.
Dee :)
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:) Thanks AussieMum & Dee for your kind thought. Despite her poor health she always enquires about the latest developments of the thread. She is very excited about us finding the photos which we will bring to show her when we visit her in a few weeks. It is very hard living away from her but I call everyday.
She cant recall why Ashley moved to Colton but the farming situaltion could be the answer.
My sister and I are also on another mission to visit Colton again and enquire about repairing Ashley's grave which we know was in a very bad state 14 years ago.
I have scanned a couple of pictures that may be of interest to you Dee from your research. One is of Mrs Box who brought up edna and myrtle and the other is of Myrtle & Unc.
JD :)
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What a marvellous collection of photos, JD........thankyou for sharing them with us.
I'm sure you are right as to Ashley being one of those who moved to the West Coast because of the poor conditions for farming north of the Goyder Line, and likewise with the Clarkes and Blacks who went to Western Australia.
Ashley and Caroline's marriage notice will soon be available on the Trove Newspapers site.
I spoke to Joan this morning, and she thinks the idea of a collaborated collection for information and photos for the Historical Museum would be a great idea.
Dee :)
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Oooh....and you might like to have this snippet to go with Grandma Box's photograph...... ;)
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:):) :) Thank you Dee the article is wonderful. As you can see by the photo, this was taken when infact she was 90.
I will work at putting all the photos on a disk and we can go from there. I also recall coming across a book at mother's place a few weeks ago "The Box Family reunion". When I am next over in a few weeks I might dig it out as it may have some interesting info and photos in it.
JD :)
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I noticed that on the photo label, JD and thought how great it was to have the newspaper clipping to match! :D
Box Family Reunion book could be very interesting, especially if it has some stories in it about family members.
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I also recall coming across a book at mother's place a few weeks ago "The Box Family reunion". When I am next over in a few weeks I might dig it out as it may have some interesting info and photos in it.
JD :)
It's amazing what becomes relevant when you have a bit more information. You may find all sorts of treasures. Half your luck. I have a serious lack of photos.
I'm loving this unfolding story.
Alison ;D
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:) I agree Alison. If we hadnt chanced upon rootschat we would never have come so far. How amazing that my sister remembered this wonderful box of goodies with photos, postcards etc.
Another interesting thing we found from my Grandmother's box was a box of badges. Most of these badges stem from the war and they are very varied from the CWA to badges to supporting indigenous people. My sister and I are unsure what to do with these. Should we display them and frame them??? Should we dontate them to someone who may collect them?? They don't really mean that much to us as they are not personal but obviously my grandmother was a collector (or hoarder) and were dear to her.
So much has unfolded during the last 2 months that it is quite hard to take it in!!!
JD :)
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The CWA ones at least may have been personal, or at least family. There are newspaper articles about CWA activities with Clarke names mentioned, JD. One was about a holiday at the CWA cottages at Grange......the cottages were very close to my grandparent's home. I haven't saved those though......too many other things I was saving.
Maybe you should hang on to them until you see how this all unfolds. It would be sad to give them away and then find out that they had real meaning to the family. And if they are old, they may well have value.
I can understand you feeling somewhat overwhelmed at present.
Dee :)
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:)Thank you Dee for your advice.....I so do appreciate it!!!!
I will hold on to them.
JD :-[
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Hi Dee :)
Due to mothers poor health and numerous trips to town I have not been on rootschat for so long and now attempting (and determined) to put something together regarding the Clarke family history.
I noticed a message regarding a Willam Gurr and although I am not 100% positive I may have a a photo of William. If you can bear with me for a week or so I will attempt to go to my sisters and fossick through the photos.
I also noticed your message regarding the Selway photo. My father's best friend (Adelaide) was an Allan Selway. Not sure if this is a connection but worth a try I suppose.
:)
JD
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JD, the only male Selway descendants with the name SELWAY would have been born in Western Australia. But thanks for thinking of me.
Re the old bible and the Clarke family history, I've emailed L and told her what has happened and what we'd like to do. To this stage I haven't had a reply.
A William Gurr photo would be great. :D
I haven't had time to do much with what I've collected yet, but hope to sort it all before too much longer.
Dee :)
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Good news for JD......the other Clarke descendant has emailed me and would love to be in touch with JD. So now I shall arrange for that to happen.
Also L and her father both feel like most of us that the Bible should go to a direct descendant of Ashley and Caroline, and they will be very happy to have a compilation of photos, information and the Powerpoint presentation.
So....my friend and I....and JD....will have to get organised! ;D ;D ;D
Dee :)
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;D ;D ;D Hi Dee
What a wonderful post to come back too.
I am so truly grateful for all who have contibuted and researched into the Old Bible Challenge and still quite amazed at how we chanced upon it.
I would so love to get into contact with the Clarke family and share our family history. As yet I havent been through the photos but will do so at some stage. As i mentioned earlier we are so very lucky to have found so many named photos and many names unknown to me. It would be wonderful to be able to share these.
My mother is at present back in hospital and my thoughts are dealing with the situation at this moment. Please be patient with me and trust I will gather my thoughts and at some stage and deliver all the photos and information I have.
Dee I will call you soon and chat further.
JD :) :) :)
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JD i am sorry to hear that your mum is in hospital. I will keep her in my thoughts and prayers for a quick recovery *hugz* to u.
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JD, take the time you need for your Mum and your family at this time, and yes, we'll work on this at a more appropriate time.
I'll look forward to your call.
Dee :)
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Hi there Deeiluka,
I'm sorry to butt in on your thread like this, but I am new to this site and can't seem to figure out how to message you!
I have been doing some research into my local area and chanced upon a postcard you scanned in March 2007 of the road in which I live - Drury Road, Harrow! I was so excited to find out that there were postcards circulating at the turn of the 20th Century which show my street, but I can't find any copies anywhere else online.
So, I wondered whether I could ask you a massive favour - could you possibly scan the postcard at a good resolution (so I can zoom in and see my house) and email it to me? I would be really grateful.
What is your connection to the Harrow area?
Cara Lovell
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Hello Cara, and welcome to Rootschat, the best genealogy online community as far as many of us are concerned! :D
Regarding posting a personal message, you need to post a couple more messages on a thread like this, before you can use the system. This was introduced as a method to stop spammers intruding and being totally disruptive.
Also, if you use the modify button above your first message, you can remove your email address. Personal details aren't allowed except in personal messages. (I've already noted it. :D ) You may find that a moderator has already done so.
Regarding the Harrow postcard.....I'll do my best for you. I don't know if it is one in my possession, or just a scan I've received from another relative. I shall check my collection.
Dee :)
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All those who've been following this thread might like to know that the Old Clarke Bible is now in the very happy hands of Ashley Clarke's great grandaughter and her family. :D
Ashley's grandaughter insisted that we take the money we paid for it......we weren't going to do so, but after discussion, decided to accept it......you never know if we might find some other lost family treasure in the market place that we could buy and restore to a family member...... :D
The history package of information and photos for the Historical Society is still a work in progress, but will hopefully be completed a little later in the year.
Dee :)
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Hi Dee,
I am so pleased that you had that discussion and that you accepted the money, as I feel the great grand-daughter understands and appreciates that you know how to use it to benefit family history. To me, this was her way of showing you this, and by you accepting her token, you gave her confidence in her decision to make that offer.
Goodness me, that seems somewhat profound ... I wish I could be a better wordsmith , but I am sure you knew when exchanging smiles with her that she realises you gave her a priceless gift that she will treasure and pass down through her family.
JM
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Dee,
I've followed this thread from the outset. What a wonderful tale :D
Congratulations on achieving what you set out to do.
Alison :D
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Thanks, JM and Alison.......it's taken a while, but we're all extremely happy with the result.
But guess who wants to find another challenge! ;) :D :D
Dee :)
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Another update......
I had another phone call today from Ashley Clarke's great grandaughter.
Sadly her mother , the daughter of Edna Clarke and grandaughter of Ashley, passed away recently. The family bible was taken to her funeral, where the gathered extended family got to see it for the first time. All were thrilled and very grateful to have it returned to the family.
And the icing on the cake for my friend and I......they are going to have the old bible repaired. Hopefully, when it is done, I'll receive a photograph of it, and may be able to post it on here.
Dee :)
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To all the wonderful followers of the Clarke Bible Challenge I would like to personally thank you for all the supportive messages of support and the interest that you have shown over the past 2 years in this truly amazing journey for our family.
As Dee mentioned earlier, sadly my mother recently passed but and I am so grateful my mother saw photos of the bible and the DVD that Dee and her dedicated friend had put together. She remebered the bible from her childhood and I am so truely grateful to now to be in possession of this beautiful book from my past ancestors.
As I have promised to Dee my sisters and I are going to get the cover repaired and put together a collection of old photos that we have in our possesion for all our familily descendents.
:) JD
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Wanted to know if still in contact with "physio" haven't noted any postings as I'm from a branch of Clarke's that went to WA and as a child visited relatives of my father at Victor Harbour in 1959/60. Also went up to "Yednalue" stayed with Aunt Maude and Stan Solley. Have a Photo of Maude sent to my grandmother Edith also one of the 4 sisters who married into the Clarke family (Symonds). My dad passed away only 2 yrs after that trip so have not had any contact with the SA side of the family. Am very interested in researching wife of James Clarke my g//grandfather - Bridget Doherty also, so perhaps they have info which would help this research so would love to Contact "physio", if possible. Ive attached Photo's Ewin & Edith my Grandparents.
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Hi chithead :)
Welcome to rootschat :)
physio hasn't been logged in since January of this year. If you make two more posts you can send her a personal message by clicking on the green icon under her username and a new window will open.
If she has notifications turned on she may respond to your request on the board.
You can just post anything trivial twice and that will do.
Information about the personal messages.
http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Information about adding attachments
http://www.rootschat.com/help/posting.php#add_attach
Cheers
Cando
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What a wonderful story put together by some amazing family detectives. Thoroughly enjoyed reading it! I do hope someone posts if they find an old bible from my family as I would happily pay the purchase price. Thank you for a warm fuzzy in a world that can be quite harsh. Well done!
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Thank you Cando, I happened on this site by chance like "ohysio" doing research on the Clarke family and was thrilled to see the posting about my branch of the family so would like to contact her. I'm in same situation as she was earlier with my Mum, and feel for her loss. Mum is 95 and in a home with Alzeimers but some memories are still there just have to pick the days that I press her for information. other days it just comes spontaneously. Thans to Dee and all her hard work in seeking out the owners of the Bible. My Mum is an avid bible reader and that is one thing she has not lost, a bonus is that she still can read and still loves her reading. Probably from all the years growing up on the farm and was an evening passtime for the family, reading that is. Must stop rambling thanks for you help. The chithead comes from another branch of my mothers family Chittleborough early settlers in SA , both sides of the family have a large footprint on south australia and west aussie too.
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Oh , a very big welcome to Rootschat and to this thread in particular, chithead. :)
Please do post again and then at least you and I can exchange personal messages, which may be of great help to you in contacting Physio, as I can help you do that. I'm not sure if I have the details you need with me, as I'm at present on holiday with family in Sydney, but I'll certainly check out what is on my computer.
And you are welcome to a copy of all the photos we took of the old bible, if you would like them.
Dee .....who greatly enjoyed the whole experience of returning the Clarke Bible to descendants. :)
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What a great story and well done,
sandra
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Hi Dee just reading your research think I can answer 1 query - Newton Harold was 5th son of Ewen & Edith Clarke he was buried with his parents as was Uncle Bill's 1 yr old son (that is Wilson & Elma's son) I was in Pingelly WA in June (actually born myself there) and my brother took me to see my Grandparents grave and I noticed their plaques where on the grave stone with my Grandparents, perhaps giving rise to that error about Newton being Wilson & Elma's son. Wilson & Elma are buried next to my Grandparents. I actually live up near Newcastle in NSW. Hope you are enjoying your visit to Sydney. Would love to receive what ever you have I think would make Physio and I, 2-3rd cousins. There was 7 in my family 4 boys & 3 girls my mum has, 27 grandchildren, 42 great grand children and 4 great great so we are a growing family. :)
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Thanks for the quick reply, Chithead. :)
I'll send you a personal message shortly.
Dee :)
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The chithead comes from another branch of my mothers family Chittleborough early settlers in SA , both sides of the family have a large footprint on south australia and west aussie too.
This brought a smile to my face, as I've grown up on the story of my mother being taken by one of her Uncle's wives to visit 'Uncle Chittleborough' near Francis on the S.A./Vic border. It was a memorable experience for her in more ways than one ;D
Sorry to barge in,
Mo
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Thats ok Mamong I actually visited relatives near Naracourte SA when we where over from WA as a child 59/60 also visited my Dad's relatives up near Craddock & Hawker but the ones near Narracourte where on my Mum's side, so perhaps it was the same Chittleborough's your Mum visited. "It's a small world after all" so says the song. I've yet to investigate Grandmother Mother Clarkes side of the family nee Edith Symonds so more relies to come :)
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Hi Dee
So here I am again with many apologies for not being here sooner. I received your message and believe you contacted my husband whilst I was away. I have since been in touch with chithead and am very excited to extend our relationship regarding our family history. My sister, cousin Robert (Valerie's son) and I attended a reuinion several months ago at Colton on the West coast of Eyre Peninsula where our mother grew up and met some relatives that we never knew existed. It was such a wonderful day and we were privelleged to be shown through Barnsdale Homestead where Ashley Clarke also lived. The present owner is restoring the homestead and was very excited when we told him about the bible. He would like photos and memorabilia to display in the house.
Since mum's passing my father has never been the same and is quite poorly at present. It was their 60th wedding anniversary a few weeks ago and the next day was admitted to hospitilal where he remains. The old bible still sits next to my mothers bed and embarrasingly still not repaired, however please have faith that it will. I also have a bag of photos that will be scanned and sent to the Historical Society as I promised. Tonight I read the Old Bible Challenge from page 1 to page 14 and cried with sadness and joy at the wonderful journey of this bible. :)
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Hi Dee a big thank you, have contacted Physio and will follow up when things settle down for her, this will give me time to go thru family photo's mum has also thru slides of mum's I have of our trip to SA in 1959/60 in which we visited My Dad's relatives at Victor Harbour and also the Craddock/Hawker area so we have some photo swopping ahead. Very thankful you and others took up the challange Re: Old Bible enabled two branches of a family to catch up. Bouqets to you all.
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Physio and Chithead, you've both made my day!
Another wonderful outcome! :D :D
So glad I could be of assistance.
Dee :)
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Following on from this thread, Chithead has a Scavenger Hunt up and running in an attempt to go back further with the Clarke family.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=619849.msg4685462;topicseen#msg4685462
I'm posting this on here in case anyone feels they can help.
Dee :)
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Update:
Today as one of our Family History Group now regular monthly local radio sessions, my friend and I told the story of the research that went into this challenge - and that was a challenge in itself. (Guess who was very nervous!)
The story was told with total respect for the privacy of living people of course......and a good mention of the value of RootsChat and Rootschatters in achieving our goals. :D
Dee :)
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Good on you Dee. Thanks for all your help. warm regards chithead.
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Re: James Rutherford Black.
I have been researching James Black who arrived on the Coromandel in South Australia in 1837.
James came with his wife, Caroline Whistle or Whistlecroft and with 2 others: Thomas Black and wife, and William Edwin Black, and wife, and a daughter.
James had a son, James Rutherford or Rotherford, Black amongst other children. I did find James had lived at Arkaba, in the mid. north of SA, and died aged 35 in Adelaide.
I am trying to decide at this time if the 3 men are brothers, but some evidence suggests they were half brothers. Thomas Black was born in Ayrshire, Scotland c 1804. (Found in the Adelaide Hospital records). William Edwin Black went through an adult baptism in London in 1835, before emigration, and before marriage, but I don't know where he was born.
William E Black married Caroline Elizabeth Warren (his second wife) in Adelaide, at Clanfergeal, under the Scottish Rites and Ceremonies, after Banns.
Thomas married Hephzibah Whistlecroft or Whistle in Adelaide. It was posssibly his second marriage, and under similar conditions to William Black. It suggests William was also born in Scotland. James has used the name Rutherford for his son. It suggests that his father remarried, and William Edwin has John Black as his father, while his mother is named Margaret Black, on his baptism certificate which was found carried out at St Andrews, Holborn, Middlesex.
Lots of info is missing at this time, but I am slowly piecing things together.
James Black's origins in Australia start in South Australia near the old gum tree. Coromandel was the first ship into Glenelg in 1837, I am led to believe. b.smith
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What a great outcome!