RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Kincardineshire => Topic started by: sparkle60 on Saturday 27 November 10 02:52 GMT (UK)
-
Has anyone heard of George Stephen born mid 1841 / 1842 in St Cyrus please? Believe his mother was Christian Stephen and that she died following his birth. Cannot find a record of her death which must have been after the June 5 1841 census, St Cyrus. Nor George's birth record. No trace of him until the 1851 census age 9 living in Dun, Montrose with his father Francis who had remarried. Then he disappears again until 1865 when he was informant on his father Francis' death cert. But cannot find him in the censuses, his occupation, did he marry...?
-
Hi Sparkle60 and welcome to RootsChat, I do not normally attempt to find Scottish ancestors as the place names/counties completly confuse me, but I thought I would give it a go with your George!
On the 1861 Census for Scotland is a George Steven b abt 1843 occ Ploughman b St Cyrus and residing at Damside Bothy, Dun, Montrose, Angus, if his grandparents where William and Agnes then it could be him.
Keyboard86
-
Thanks... but sorry, William and Agnes are not ours....
-
The William and Agnes Steven in 1861 are not shown as grandparents of George Steven. He is shown as their servant - other 'Steven's are shown as family, then there's a George H. Duncan, servant followed by George Steven, servant. Just because they had the same surname doesn't mean they were necessarily related.
Annette
-
Annette, you are possibly my saviour, why did I assume due to age variance, that they were even related!
Keyboard86
-
Thanks but that Steven group still seem unrelated.
In 1865 George's surname was spelled Stephen on his father's death certificate and I've found our history consistent with that spelling.
Many other avenues to pursue I believe. His mother seems to have died between 1841 and 1842 and besides baby George there were four other chidren aged between abt 4 and 13, could have been sent anywhere.
Still searching. Best wishes...
-
When you've been doing genealogy as long as I have (almost 30 years) one thing you learn is to think outside the box.
As already stated, the 1861 census shows that George Steven born St. Cyrus was a servant to William and Agnes, not a relation, so they are more than likely not connected to him at all. This was in Dun where his family were. The 1851 Census shows the only George Stephen born circa 1842 St. Cyrus is yours. You have to be flexible on surnames the further back you go. Records were only as good as the person writing it down and most people couldn't read or write and had no idea what was put down. Since the 1861 Census shows only one George Stephen/Steven born ca.1842 St. Cyrus - in Dun where his father was - then I would say this is definitely your man.
Don't reject entries because the spelling is not what you expect. With the 4 other children you refer to (as in 1841 census) the eldest, John, could have joined the army, emigrated, moved to England. As to the 3 girls - they could have moved to England (no trace in Scotland) but then Scottish christian names can change like the wind. Jean's can become Jane, Janet, Jessie, Jeannie, Margaret's Maggie, Meg. Then again, maybe they died like their mother.
Annette
-
Thanks for the advice,
Best wishes...
-
Hi Sparkle60,
I know who he is. His mother is Mary Taylor. Christian Gowans was the first wife of Francis Stephens married 22 May 1824 in Durris. Had 7 kids. Francis then married Mary Taylor 24 Jul 1842 in St. Cyrus. Mary Taylor I think was married to Jacob Kemlo prior and had 2 kids with him. Christian Gowans parents are James Gowans and Mary Grieve. I think Mary Taylors parents are James Taylor and Anne Douglas but I'm not 100% sure about them. Hope this helps.
Cheryl
-
Thanks - that's him.
Mother Mary Taylor...? I had thought that his mother was Christian Gowans (and that she'd died following childbirth) because he's age 9 on the 1851 census. So thought that he was raised by Francis' 2nd wife Mary Taylor (widow of Kemlo). Have you ever found a certificate which might confirm George's mother? I've been searching for George in SP births, marriages and deaths, cannot find. Did he marry? Nor a death cert for Christian Gowans.
Brick wall. Are we related?
On Mary Taylor - she died 1893 age 83 at 47, Southesk Street, Montrose which I believe was a lodging house. Informant Robert Kemlo, son. In the 1901 census he's recorded as a superintendant there. Later known as the Caledonian Hotel. Mary's death certificate confirms her parents were James Taylor and Ann Taylor MS Douglas. Her other son Alexander Kemlo for whom she had cared went to the asylum, died 1905 age 66.
-
Hi Sparkle60,
No I don't think we are related. This is not my line exactly. George's half sister Margaret married into one of my lines. I don't have any certificates. Christian probably died after having Amelia. Don't know what happened to George.
Cheryl
-
Hi Cheryl,
Christian must have died between 6 June (1841 census) and before 24 Jul 1842. In the 1841 census your Margaret was recorded age 5, Amelia age 3 (later known as Emily). Margaret was my 2nd grand great aunt, witness to her sister Emily's marriage in 1859.
-
Dear Sparkle60,
It's a long story but I think I know what happened your George - George Stephen married Barbara Porteous 3 Jun 1874 in Falkirk, Stirling, Scotland, Fathers name was Francis (deceased) and on the 4th June 1874 they departed for New Zealand, the ship was the Canterbury and they arrived Canterbury, New Zealand 1st September 1874. Their fourth child was named Mary Taylor Stephen!
Dear Cheryl,
My Great GT Grandmother was Margaret Stephen, she had one child Emily born 1866 in London and although the birth certificate gives a William Steven as the Father, Emily told my mother he didn't exist? Emily was educated in a private school and money was not a problem. The legend is that Margaret was a servant at Glamis Castle who was sent away.
James and Jane from the Francis and Christian marriage emigrated to America, another, and I have the book somewhere, went to be a "Missionary on a Cannibal Isle".
For the last 140 years the family have kept in touch.
Very interested to know if you have got any more information.
Best regards
Mike
-
Hi Mike delighted to hear from you!
Your Margaret would be my 2nd great grand aunt.
I've been searching to discover who George's mother was for years
so thanks for clarifying that it was Mary Taylor, Francis' second wife.
Christian Gowans and Francis Stephen were my Great x 3 grandparents.
Happy to share research, I'll send you a private message.
-
Hi,
I can't be sure that George's mother was Mary Taylor, only that he claims to have been 30 in 1874 when he wed Mary Porteous and that he named his forth child Mary Taylor Stephen - looking forward to sharing research.
Mike
-
Hello all,
don't know if the thread is still active or not, but Im also interested in George Stephan and Barbara Porteous. Would appreciate any pointers or information.
Thanks.
Dave.
-
Hello all, don't know if the thread is still active or not, but Im also interested in George Stephan and Barbara Porteous. Would appreciate any pointers or information. Thanks. Dave.
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
]Hi Dave, sending you a PM, look in your rootschat inbox[/color]
-
Thankls, I have to make three posts before I can PM, :) so this can be number two.
-
And this can be number three.
-
Hi Dave,
Do you live in NZ as that was George and Barbara's final destination?
I've a photo of Barbara Porteous and George Stephen taken just before they left Scotland for NZ on the "Canterbury" in June 1874 - courtesy of Lynne Stephen one of their descendants.
Feel free to PM me if you think I can be of assistance.
Mike
-
Certainly do, I will send a PM now.