RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Cheshire => Topic started by: Greygirl on Thursday 25 November 10 20:35 GMT (UK)
-
David Hannah Taylor born about 1823 in Cheshire has the letters SRA SFM attached to his name in his wedding announcement and in his death notice. I have no idea what these letters mean and wondered if his occupation in either the 1851 or 1861 census would give a clue.
1851 he is 27yrs old living with his wife Mary somewhere in Birkenhead, and in 1861 I think he is not with his wife and children on census night but died in November 1861 at his father's house in Bidston Cheshire so may possibly be there on census night.
Can someone try to solve the mystery and look up his occupation please, or maybe someone knows what SRA SFM means
Thanks
Greygirl
-
David Hannah Taylor born about 1823 in Cheshire
The 1851 entry you refer to shows his birthplace as Salford Lancs - woollen merchant and agent. Wife Mary was b Bolton
Are you sure this is the right man?
-
Pretty sure. I'm confident that his wife Mary is the right person.
-
He is not to be found on the 1861 census
-
That's odd.
His obituary says that he died at his father's house which does seem a bit odd for a man who was married with children, though I suppose it might have been a sudden death while visiting.
If he was a wool merchant and agent I can't fit the letters after his name around that particular occupation
-
and in 1861 I think he is not with his wife and children
Mary was 24 on the 1851 census - there are only 2 Mary Taylor's b Bolton 1825-29 in 1861 - one unmarried and the other married and shown as a cotton picker but no children
Where did you find her in 1861?
-
She appears as "Mrs Taylor", wrongly stated to be born in Bidston, Cheshire, at her father William Naisby's house with her two children Harriet and William at Litherland Park in Sefton (RG9/2726/124/28)
-
Link to previous thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=d561ti942i3aj545pd23lm9ov7&topic=427314.0
Jean
-
Hi Greygirl,
Who was his father? Have you managed to find him on the census?
He might provide clues both to occupation and location on the census.
Due to the difficulty in finding him I wonder if there may be a connection to shipping...just a thought.
Jean
-
I'd hazard a guess that SFM might have some connection with Free Masons. Society of Free Masons maybe? SRA might be something similar.
-
Hmm, just found this:
Liverpool Mercury 26 April 1853:
I hereby give notice that I will NOT be ANSWERABLE for any DEBT or DEBTS that my Wife MARY TAYLOR (late Mary Naisby of Oxton Hill Cheshire) may contract on or after this date.
DAVID HANNAH TAYLOR
Witness Joseph Carter, 6 Camden St Birkenhead, April 25 1853
Added: that may explain why he died at his fathers residence. In the obituary the only letters shown after his name are SRA.....
-
The London Gazette of 7th January 1853 has this:
Partnerships dissolved:
James Taylor and David Hannah Taylor of Liverpool, Woollen Merchants
Could James be a brother?
Jean
-
It appears that James is his brother. 1861 census, RG9 2647-7 Page 8, Bidston Hill, Bidston:
David Taylor, Head, Mar, 64, Retired from Woollen Cloth Trade born Scotland
Ellen Taylor, Wife, Mar, 60 born Lancashire Liverpool
James Taylor, Son, Unm, 46, Cashier born Lancashire Liverpool
Catherine Williams, Serv, Unm, 32, Domestic Servant
Jean
-
Hi
The marriage is in the familysearch pilot site.
David Taylor - father David
Mary Toft Naisby (age 21) - father William
Birkenhead St Mary's June 1849
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#start
Regards
Neptune
-
Thank you all!
Yes, David Hannah Taylor's father was David. The familysearch info may not be quite correct. I have a newspaper cutting from the Manchester Times 27th June 1849 which states that the marriage was "On the 23rd inst at the Abbey Church Birkenhead, by the Rev Mr Taylor, David H. Taylor S.R.A. S.F.M., second son of David Taylor Esq Birkenhead, to Mary, second daughter of William Naisby Esq, Oxton, Cheshire." The death notice in the Liverpool Mercury 19th November 1861 says "Nov 18 at the residence of his father, David Taylor Esq, Grove Villa, Bidston aged 30, Mr David Hannah Taylor, S.R.A."
The S must stand for Society. Maybe the M is for Merchants and the A for Agents? I didn't think that the freemasons used letters after their name.
The newspaper notice about Mary's debts is intriguing. I haven't found any other references to debts and Mary's father left her a fair share of his property in his Will of 1862.
-
Well, curiouser and curiouser, as Alice said.
From searching the London Gazette archive it appears that our David Hannah Taylor was the problem in the family, not his wife Mary. He was carrying on a number of businesses while insolvent and seems to have had quite a number of different addresses, presumably trying to avoid his creditors who finally caught up with him in 1854. No wonder Mary and her two children moved back in with her father. I can't help feeling that David's end at such a young age might not have been a very happy one...
-
How interesting - it's surprising how much you can find out.
I think that this is one occasion when I might be tempted to invest in that death certificate....
Jean
-
I think I might have found David Taylor in 1861 b1823 Cheshire living in Cheshire (I think Oxton). Could someone look up the deails of this address and if anyone was living with him at the time, please?
:)
-
Hi, Greygirl, I have just browsed through the whole of the Oxton enumeration districts
i.e. District 14 Oxton
District 11, 12, 13 & 14 Oxton and Woodchurch
David is not showing in any of these.
The only Taylor is in District 12 a Henry born Lincs nephew of John Newburn farmer.
I will have a look at Bidston
Regards
Kathb
-
Hi, Greygirl, just checked Bidston 9 and 11. No David Taylor there either apart from his father.
Just a thought:
Given that his father was born in Scotland have you looked at the Scottish Census for 1861 he may have been visiting relatives there?
Regards
Kathb
-
I think I might have found David Taylor in 1861 b1823 Cheshire living in Cheshire (I think Oxton). Could someone look up the deails of this address and if anyone was living with him at the time, please?
:)
Hi Greygirl,
Where have you managed to find him and I'll see what I can find....
Jean
-
Hi Jean
I looked on the free access bit of A******y. I've had another try and he seems to be in Stockport registration district.
GG
-
Hi Greygirl,
I think that the one you are referring to is a Butcher in Hyde - his place of birth is given as Poynton, Cheshire - so I don't think it's the same one.
I remember having a really good look for him in 1861 earlier in the post - and couldn't find anything that was conclusive. Sorry not to be able to help further - it's very frustrating not to be able to find him.
Jean
-
Thanks for checking. At least I can cross him off the list
I suppose he might have been living in one of the pieces of the 1861 census that is missing.
Never mind, I'm going to find this man by hook or by crook...
-
Hi, Greygirl, given the searches that the rootschatters have tried for David Taylor in 1861 and David's insolvency, it is perfectly possible that he did not want to attract attention to himself in the 1861 census.
Have you sent for a copy of his death certificate? This may give some clue as to his state of health prior to death. He could have been in very poor circumstances or living beyond his means and only arrived at his fathers residence shortly before death.
I have ancestors who changed their names to avoid being recognised for whatever reason.
Another source of help may be where he is buried. Is it in a family plot or not? Was he partly disowned by the family or not?
I have not tried searching for him under the name of David Hannah. Have you tried this?
Regards
Kathb