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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: may164 on Thursday 25 November 10 10:28 GMT (UK)

Title: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Thursday 25 November 10 10:28 GMT (UK)
Hello
I am searching for the death records for my G G Grandmother - Mary Ann Pemberton arrived with her husband Walter and 3 sons in Victoria in 1853.
I have traced Walter and the children but cannot trace Mary Ann. I cannot find her returning to England and she is not buried in Beechworth where they headed in 1853. I am thinking she died on the trip but cannot find a death record in BDM. She also did not die on the trip out on th ship.
Any help would be appreciated.
May 
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 25 November 10 11:43 GMT (UK)
When did Walter die, was she still alive then do you know?

thanks Jenn
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: judb on Thursday 25 November 10 13:39 GMT (UK)
Do you have her parents' names?  Many death records in Australia list parent names which makes it easier to find the right person.

I am assuming Walter married Mary Ann BEST Jun qr 1844, registered at Kensington? (only one that seems to fit from Free BMD.)  IGI has this birth/baptism entry:
Mary Anne BEST
Born:  08 NOV 1823   
Baptised 13 APR 1828   Saint Luke, Chelsea, London, England
Parents: GEORGE BEST, Mary Anne   

PROV has digitised letters of administration for "Walter PEMBERTON, the elder" carter of Beechworth died 8 April 1895.  His widow is given as "Blanche PEMBERTON of Beechworth"  so perhaps Walter had married again after the death of Mary Ann  ???

IF this is your chap his marriage to Blanche COADE took place in Victoria in 1874.  Reg no 1463

Could the marriage to Blanche be his third??  Or is this the son Walter - it seems to me more likely that this is the son

There is another marriage for a Walter PEMBERTON to Elizabeth Ann NICHOLLS in Victoria, 1866 Reg no: 1332
There are deaths of 7 children of this couple:
1869 Samuel Pemberton Parents: Walter, Elizabeth A Nicholls
Victoria Reg no: 8454
1943 John Thos Hy Pemberton, 69, died Edon, Victoria
Parents: Walter Pemberton and Eliz Nicholls
Victoria Reg no: 338
Francis Jos Pemberton, 70,  1946 Northcote, Victoria Walter, Eliz
??Dk Wm Pemberton, 65, 1943 M Ponds, Victoria Walter, Eliz Anne
Henry Tregillis Pemberton, 78, 1960 Kew, Victoria Walter, Elizabeth An
Thomas Alfred Pemberton,72, 1954 Park, Victoria Walter, Elizabeth A
Edwd Jas Elgin Gordon Pemberton, 67,  1953 St Kilda, Victoria Walter, Eliz Ann
Ruby Alice Pemberton, aged 7 months 1888 Beechworth, Victoria Walt, Elizabeth Ann - this one shows that Walter and Elizabeth were in Beechworth.

Electoral roll for 1903 shows the folowing PEMBERTONs listed in Beechworth:
At Kerford St:
Charles Edward, Elizabeth Ann, Frederick William, John, Walter, Thomas Alfred and Selina?
At Allen Rd - Frederick, Mary Ann

You would need to purchase some certificates to be sure.  Walter's death certificate should show his marriages - if the informant had the correct information.

Cheers, Judith
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Aussie1947 on Thursday 25 November 10 14:28 GMT (UK)
Looks like Walter Pemberton was at Beechworth in 1878.

Government timber contract awarded to Walter Pemberton & William Counsell of Spring Creek Beechworth.

Victorian Government Gazette 1878 p3316

http://gazette.slv.vic.gov.au/view.cgi?year=1878&class=general&page_num=3283&state=V&classNum=G127

Regards

Gerry
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Aussie1947 on Thursday 25 November 10 14:37 GMT (UK)
Death notice for a Mary Ann Pemberton in 1914

The Argus Saturday 17th January 1914 p13.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/7231333?

Regards

Gerry
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 25 November 10 21:44 GMT (UK)
Death notice for a Mary Ann Pemberton in 1914

The Argus Saturday 17th January 1914 p13.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/7231333?

Regards

Gerry


This death notice refers to his death
PEMBERTON  Mary Ann died aged 64 at Beechworth
father Richard Jefferies mother Mary Ann Snow reg no 393



Jenn
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Aussie1947 on Thursday 25 November 10 22:11 GMT (UK)
Hi

Sorry about the wrong Pemberton error in my previous post picked up by Jenn.

The SMH for Wednesday 18th April 1923 on page 11 has 4 entries under Funerals for a Mary Ann (Anne) Pemberton of Botany Sydney.  (Probably not related to the Pembertons of Beechworth).
 
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/16073237?searchTerm="Mary%20Ann%20Pemberton"&searchLimits=

Gerry
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 November 10 01:59 GMT (UK)
Hi
You say you have the death of WALTER PEMBERTON and the sons sorted out and recorded.
I am assuming this to be the death of WALTER senior.

PEMBERTON, WALTER
Father, Walter
Mother, Susan BLISSETT
Aged 70
At Beewth
Year 1895 #4329

The PEMBERTON/COADE  marriage shown above by JUDITH is a puzzle.

BLANCHE COADE   Born London
To WALTER PEMBERTON  born Cornwall
Year 1874 #1463

ALSO

BLANCHE JOHN COADE born Dundee
To JOHN STEWART born  Cornwall
Year 1874 #2768

No births I can see registered to the PEMBERTON/COADE couple, BUT this death in NSW

REG. 16370 In 1961    
PEMBERTON, SYDNEY ROBERT
Father WALTER    
Mother BLANCHE    
At HAMILTON

Death of BLANCHE

STEWART, BLANCHE
Father William COADE
Mother Mary Harvey RALPH
Age 85. At WATTA
Year 1936 #18371   

 A  good many births  to STEWART/COADE starting with twins at BEECHWORTH in 1876.

I agree with JUDITH, the WALTER PEMBERTON who married ELIZABETH ANN NICHOLLS  is probably a son of WALTER Snr.  There are also other PEMBERTON’s married to MARY ANN’s of different surnames.

However in Victoria, as far as I can see, the only PEMBERTON with mother MARY …… and father WALTER was born c 1845. Here is his death.

PEMBERTON, WALTER.
Father WALTER
Mother MARY (UK)
Death Place EWICK
Aged 83
Year 1928 #5474

Perhaps you have the deaths of the sons of WALTER Snr in other Australian states showing their mother’s name.

Sue


Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Raylen on Friday 26 November 10 02:12 GMT (UK)


Wonder if this death is a possible   :-\

PIMBERTON  Mary Anne
died 1853  age 32years
Birth Place: England
Father: Unknown 
Mother: Not listed
Reg# 1765

Raylen
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Friday 26 November 10 03:34 GMT (UK)
Thank you to everyone who are all helping me solve my riddle.
Mary Anns husband Walter died in Bworth in 1895.

Walter had re married. He married Blanche Coade in 1874. They had four children. Blanche had been previously married to Edward Coade and her maiden name was Nicholls. Blanche died in 1902.On his marriage cert he states that he had been widowed in the 1850's.
Walters son - Walter married Elizabeth Nicholls. They moved to Melbourne.
Thank you Judith for Mary Anns birth and baptism details also her parents names.
Thank you Gerry for the timber contracting award - both William Counsell and Walter Pemberton were my GG Grandfathers, there they were working together and their children married!
Raylen I am most interested in the death notice in 1853 - REG 1765, this is the closest I think I am to Mary. She may have died after arriving in Australia because the family headed straight to the goldfields and there is no trace of her there. Any ideas how I can get a copy of the document, it may have information on it relating to her family and her burial. I am fairly new to all of this.
Sparrett the Walter you have is the son b 1845 and he died in 1925, he was married to Elizabeth Nicholls. He was 8 when he arrived in Australia in 1853. Sydney Pemberton who died in 1961 was the son of Walter and Blanche.
I believe the Blanche Coade/Stewart wedding was Blanches husband Edward Coades sister, also named Blanche. Her father named as William Coade. She then died in 1925
Maree
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: judb on Friday 26 November 10 07:52 GMT (UK)
Many thanks Maree for letting us know who is who.

I am assuming that this is their shipping entry -
arriving on the ASIA, 6 Aug 1853, into Melbourne, from Liverpool, fiche 046 page 002

Walter, 30
Mary Ann, 28
Walter, 6
Frederick, 6
Alfred, 4

I think I recall you said you knew she had actually arrived - not died on the ship?

According to an article in The Argus the Asia carried 600 passengers with little or no sickness on board.  The majority of the passengers apparently started on another ship the Ebba Bratre? which met with a mishap off Holyhead and had to return to Liverpool.

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/4795492?searchTerm=ship%20asia&searchLimits=exactPhrase

Judith
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 November 10 07:54 GMT (UK)
Hi Maree

For your interest

 Blanche had been previously married to Edward Coade and her maiden name was Nicholls.


Marriages in Victoria

COADE, THOMAS
To ELIZA MORGAN
Year 1854
Reg. #1000

COADE,THOMAS
To BLANCHE NICHOLLS
Year 1868
Reg. # 699

Sue
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Friday 26 November 10 09:04 GMT (UK)
Hi Maree,

You probably have the details of the four births you mention to WALTER PEMBERTON and BLANCHE COADE (Nicholls)

{I do note she does not use her previous married name on the births of these children, but her birth name??}

I am only able to see two on the indexes

PEMBERTON , Daisy Josephine
Father Walter
Mother Blanche Nicholls
Year 1887
Reg 26039

PEMBERTON, David Herbert
Father Walter
Mother Blanche Nicholls
Year 1893
Reg. 19356

They are certainly a long time after the marriage 1874!

Sue

EDIT To Add.

A harder look on my part finds the other two births to BLANCHE and WALTER. ;D

PEMBERTON, Sydney Robert
Father Walter
Mother Blanche Nicholls
At Beechworth
Year 1891 #9142


PEMBERTON, Violet Mary Evelyn
Father Walter
Mother Blanche Nicholls
At Beechworth
Year 1889 #18625

Is this the death of BLANCHE in NSW?

NICHOLLS, BLANCHE R.
Reg. 12360.
Year 1902
Father EDWARD
Mother Nathalia
At Sydney

Sue


Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Saturday 27 November 10 03:28 GMT (UK)
Hi May,
I believe this is the arrival of the NICHOLLS family.

http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=24
Surname for all NICHOLLS

Mary.  Aged  40.  Arrival  May 1858. Ship Admiral Boxer Ref. 12 462
Samuel  Aged 13 (as above)
Mary Aged 11 (as above)
ELIZABETH Aged 9 (as above)
Catherine Aged 7 (as above)
BLANCHE Aged 5 (as above)
Thomas Aged 4 (as above)
John Aged 2 (as above)

JOHN senior, the husband and father, is not listed, but he did arrive and was a stonemason in Beechworth.  He left a will (died 8/3/1879) with his estate going to his wife MARY ANN NICHOLLS.
She also left a will (died 1896) and eventually joint administration was granted to WALTER JOHN PEMBERTON.

There is marriage in CORNWALL

Dec ¼ 1842 Penzance
Mary Ann COADE
John NICHOLLS Vol 9 Pg 262

Here is a Birth in CORNWALL which fits the shipping age for BLANCHE

June ¼ 1852 Falmouth
Nicholls, Blanche
Vol 5c pg 215

Births for their other children can also be found at http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl

Here is the death in Victoria for ELIZABETH NICHOLLS who was married to Walter PEMBERTON Jnr.

PEMBERTON  ELIZABETH ANN
Father JOHN NICHOLLS
Mother MARY COADE
AGEd73
At Ewick
Yr 1920 #1453

It would seem then that ELIZABETH ANN and BLANCHE were sisters.
This does not fit the parental details for the death of  Blanche R. Nicholls in NSW in 1902

Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Saturday 27 November 10 08:12 GMT (UK)
Hello Sue
You have been very busy and thanks so much. It is bizzarre that Elizabeth and Blanche married father and son Walter Pembertons, though Blanche was 22 and Walter was 47. What is confusing now is that Blanches mother was Mary Coade before she married John Nicholls. On Blanches marriage certificate she states her father as John Nicholls and her mother as Mary Coade, and he own name as Blanche Coade. It looks as though John came out earlier than Mary and it was then Mary who brought her family out. Could this really be our Blanche Nicholls who married Thomas Coade (the same surname as her mother) a relative!!!!!! As she married in 1868 she must have been all of 16 as she was 22 in 1874. Or could she have just used her mothers maiden name on her marriage cert but actually have had an illegitimate child and pretended to be widowed when she married. It looks as if Mary Ann appointed her daughter Elizabeths husband Walter Pemberton JNR as administrator. 
On Blanches marriage cert she stats she is widowed with 1 child.
When Walter SNR dies his children are listed with his eldest Daisy 7 years old. I agree this was a long time after they married in 1874 and Eliza was 37 and Walter was 63.
After Walter dies in 1895 she married again but died in 1902.
Thank you
 
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Sunday 28 November 10 04:57 GMT (UK)
I jumped on BDM again last night. When Blanche married Thomas, she was all of 16 and he was 53! Their son born the same year was Edward James Elgin Coade. Thomas died in May 1874 and she married Walter the next month!
Edward married @ 27yrs  in 1895.
I traced the eldest of Blanches and Walters shildren - Violet. She married in 1918 aged 30. I cannot locate Daisy, David or Sydney. They were all quite young when their mother died and I just wonder if another family raised them and they changed their name. I looked under their mothers newly married name also - Tomlinson.
I downloaded the death cert suggested by Raylen and can only presume this is my GG Grandmother Mary Anne, slightly different spelling, but another Mary Anne died on the same day and there is an E on Anne also. With reference to PIMBERTON spelling there are no PIMBERTONS arriving into VIC. There is another Mary Pemberton arriving but the following year 1854.It states she was 32 which is close and she had been in Vic four months, so dying in Dec they arrived in August. Maybe Walter and children left her at the hospital. There are no family details. it see she died of exhaustation and another condition I cannot decipher yet. I have sent off to MGC for burial details so I will see what comes of that.  It was a very moving moment to think I had finally found her but sad that she came here and left her family then died on her own. Thankyou raylen for solving this year long search. I now know not to rely on correct spelling or ages or dates.
Thankyou
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 28 November 10 05:34 GMT (UK)
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/11516195?searchTerm="Blanche Coade"&searchLimits=

This newspaper item shows BLANCHE to clearly be the "*WIDOW"of THOMAS COADE. And now the *wife of WALTER PEMBERTON the elder.

This *marital status confirmed by the documents in the estate of WALTER PEMBERTON dated 8/5/18*


http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=54

His  marriage to BLANCHE was THOMAS COADE's second marriage.

The deaths of the two men show they were brothers

COADE, THOMAS Father John . Mother Blanche Johns. Aged 59 Born Corn  Year 1874 #4645

COODE (sic), WILLIAM   F John. Mother Blanche Johns.  Aged 49 year 1861. #10141

William was the father of the BLANCHE you referred to earlier as marrying STEWART.

Sue

* Marks a change
EDIT.
I have corrected errors in this posting which were reversed in their expression!!! and therefore incorrect. Wrong year typed also.
Thanks to fellowchatter for pointing it out.


Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: judb on Sunday 28 November 10 05:36 GMT (UK)
Letters 'e' and 'i' often look very similar so the spelling difference is not that important.

Where did she die and who was the informant?

It would be really nice if you would transcribe the cetificate for us.

Such a sad story but nice to see you have found her.

Judith
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 28 November 10 05:46 GMT (UK)
I cannot locate Daisy, David or Sydney. They were all quite young when their mother died [/i]  

Here are the marriages of two of BLANCHE's children in PERTH.

PEMBERTON,DAISY J E B
To SMITH   JOHN R         
At PERTH REG 212 Year1906   

PEMBERTON DAVID H S      
DEWAR ADELINE M M      
BEVERLEY REG 13 Yr1925

A newspaper notice for JOSEPHINE's marriage

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/37391051?searchTerm="walter pemberton"&searchLimits=

Sue

   

Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 28 November 10 06:02 GMT (UK)
From extracted entries at..

http://www.familysearch.org/eng/search/frameset_search.asp

Here are the Christenings of WILLIAM and THOMAS COAD(e)

THOMAS COADE- 7/5/1815. Father JOHN  Mother BLANCHE. Crownan. Cornwall England.

WILLIAM COAD- 24/6/1812. Parents as above. Location as above.

Two others…

JOHN COAD- 7/9/1806  Parents as above. Location as above.

SAMUEL COAD- 10/7/1808  Parents as above. Location as above.

Sue
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Sunday 28 November 10 06:40 GMT (UK)
Wow. they went to Perth from Beechworth I just cannot imagine that. From an earlier email you had located Sydneys death in Hamilton NSW so that does wrap them up, thankyou.
The informant on Mary Pembertons death cert was Mary Creek, whom I would say was a Nurse, she was the same informant on the next death registration in the hospital on the same day. The registrar was Edward Arnold. On these two deaths there are no family and no history at all, just dashes in both places for both of these ladies who died on the same day. It states they were also buried on that day at New melbourne cemetery, Thomas Jennings(or similar name)  as undertaker and a James Hill as the Minister. The registrar filled out the schedule and dated it 28/12/53 in the same pen covering 5 deaths with 2 on the 27th and 3 on the 24th funnily enough in that order with the 27th deaths on the top of the page.
Sue do you think that Mary Nicholls (Coade) was related to Thomas Coade, maybe her brother with Blanche Coade the sister, (which is why she named her daughter Blanche) and that Blanche married her uncle????   
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 28 November 10 07:03 GMT (UK)
Sue do you think that Mary Nicholls (Coade) was related to Thomas Coade, maybe her brother with Blanche Coade the sister, (which is why she named her daughter Blanche) and that Blanche married her uncle?      

I cannot say.
I have not been able to see a birth of MARY ANN COADE in the proper time-frame  with  the same parents as WILLIAM and THOMAS (and the brothers listed above)

Sue
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Sunday 28 November 10 07:19 GMT (UK)
http://www.aif.adfa.edu.au:8080/showPerson?pid=237868

David Herbert PEMBERTON  fought in WW1

when he enlisted he gave his sister Violet as his NOK

Jenn
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 28 November 10 07:57 GMT (UK)
Sue do you think that Mary Nicholls (Coade) was related to Thomas Coade, maybe her brother with Blanche Coade the sister, (which is why she named her daughter Blanche) and that Blanche married her uncle?       



Here is the probable death of MARY ANN NICHOLLS, the mother of BLANCHE and wife of JOHN NICHOLLS

It shows that THOMAS COADE and WILLIAM COADE were not brothers to her.

 In Victoria

NICHOLLS, MARY ANN
Father, Coade Saml
Mother, Jane Tonkins
Age 79
At Bworth
Year 1896 #8551

Sue
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Sunday 28 November 10 08:46 GMT (UK)
http://www.mcb.wa.gov.au/NameSearch/search.php

will lead  to the probable interment of DAISY JOSEPHINE SMITH in Western Australia.

The marriage of VIOLET in Victoria
 
TREBY Harry Gaspard
To PEMBERTON Violet Mary
Year 1919 # 5830

The war record which Jenn has mentioned can be read in full on

http://www.naa.gov.au/collection/recordsearch/index.aspx

There is a  letter from DAVID and addresses for Violet in Melbourne.


Sue
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Monday 29 November 10 01:55 GMT (UK)
Thank you so much to everyone.
I contacted the Melb Gen cemetery today and they could tell me that Mary was buried on the day she died in a public grave with 5 others. I am able to place a plaque at the cemetery in an area reserved for unmarked gravesites. All of the additional information I have received from everyone has been wonderful. When they said she was in an unmarked grave, I really expected it but I did have a tear. As you can all see I am new to this.
Shortly I will move on the my next tricky ancestors.
Maree
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Monday 29 November 10 04:42 GMT (UK)
Hi Maree,

We were all new at this at some time ;)

It is good to hear you feel your mystery is solved :D

I noted this interesting little discrepancy and thought you may like it for your future reference.

You will know the marriage of BLANCHE to THOMAS COADE took place in 1868 #699.[Listed above in the thread, I think.]

This is the birth of their only registered child-

COADE, EDWARD JAMES ELGIN
Father Thomas
Mother Blanche NichollsAt Beechwo.
Year 1868 #955

Here is the death of the man I think,( though the death age and birthdate do not tally)

PEMBERTON, EDWARD JAS. ELGIN GORDON
Aged 67
Father WALTER
Mother ELIZ ANN NICHOLLS
At E St K
Year 1953 #3792
At E St K

When ELIZABETH ANN (NICHOLLS) PEMBERTON  died in 1920, a death notice was published and it listed her children.

Walter J., Sam V., May (Mrs Trim), Jno T., Jos E, Fred W. Charles E. (NZ)THOS E., Mary T (Sydney),
 
Ted E  (Colac) (is this Edward James Elgin?) I do not see a birth in that name to the couple.
 
Stella Pritchard (Stan) Ruby (Mrs Reid).

So, a few possible reasons for this listing of parents at the death of EDWARD PEMBERTON...

The informant was misinformed.

Perhaps WALTER and ELIZABETH (NICHOLLS) had a child with the same name and we have not spotted it in the indexes.

ELIZABETH (BLANCHE's older sister) and WLATER  took over the parenting of the child  for some reason and EDWARD JAMES ELGIN believed they were his mother and father  as he grew up.

Sue



Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Monday 29 November 10 09:07 GMT (UK)
You are very thorough. I too had located this on BDM on the w/e.

Blanche and Thomas after marrying in 1868 had Edward and then Thomas died 6 years later (Edward been 6). She certainly was young but she was married. When Blanche then married Walter the following month maybe Elizabeth raised him, or maybe they had him from birth. Thomas was quite old and maybe Blanche could not keep him. I have a marriage image for Edward James Elgin Coade to Mary Tindale in 1895. I cannot locate a death cert for Edward Coade in Victoria. I also cannot locate a Mary Coade death cert that fits. I wonder if Edward changed his name later in life or as you said the informant was wrong.
This death notice states he was 67 years in 1953. Thomas and Blanches son was born in 1868, so he would have been 85 years. Could there be that much discrepancy?
Elizabeth and Walter did have a boy in 1869 who died, could they have taken Edward as their own but what about the age, can't see why this would need to be a lie. There were no parents alive and only Eliz and Walters son Henry was alive in 1853.



Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 29 November 10 09:24 GMT (UK)
The two  men are listed in the Electoral Rolls as 
Edward James Elgin Gordon PEMBERTON  in Victoria

 
Edward James Elgin Coade  in WA

there is a death in WA for an Edward J Coade

he is on  the Karrakatta site
buried in  the same grace
COADE  EDWARD JAMES  aged 78 years  died in  1946  SOUTH PERTH 
COADE  MARY  aged 81 years  died 1950  SOUTH PERTH 

there are details in  the newspaper but coming soon  although  you can read it says he left over 26,000 pounds to his  wife, so  he was reasonably well off,  he also had a family


Jenn
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Monday 29 November 10 09:48 GMT (UK)
Jenn, you are amazing as ever!! ;) :D ;) :D

Two men indeed. ;D

I think ELGIN was the name of the family property, or its location or such  in BEECHWORTH. (I will check again)

There is cremation record for EDWARD JAMES ELGIN PEMBERTON at Springvale Crematorium.

http://www.deceasedsearch.com/index.php

ELLEN PEMBERTON, who died in 1965, is with him.

Their marriage can be given if needed ;D

Sue
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Monday 29 November 10 10:08 GMT (UK)


Noting also that the grantee in connection with the burial plot at Karrakatta is one DORIS IRENE HEWITT.

I think  she was their daughter.


Here is her marriage and the pathway to "HEWITT"

Coade, Doris I .
At  Perth
Reg 446
In 1922
To Hewett Arthur T,
 
Sue

 
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 29 November 10 11:09 GMT (UK)
Thanks  Sue  :-[

The marriage  was in 1914 in Victoria

Edward James PEMBERTON Married Ellen Birtles rreg no 6548

two  children within  the scope of index

PEMBERTON  Julia Elizth born 1915 at Beechworth reg no 18563
Father  Edw Jas Elgin Gordon PEMBERTON


PEMBERTON Jeanne Margt born 1918 at Colac reg no 26538
Father Edw Jas Elgin Gordon PEMBERTON mother Ellen Birtles


Jenn
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Monday 29 November 10 21:49 GMT (UK)
Not sure how this goes for a theory, but when Blanche died in 1902 she still had four young children. Maybe their older half brother Edward James Elgin Coade and his new wife took them in or took some of them in which COULD explain how the three of them at least ended up in WA. Maybe he moved there with them. Daisy the eldest married in 1906 aged 17 in Perth.Then Violet married in 1919 in Melbourne, then David went to War and returned to WA and married. Not sure how Sydney ended up in Sydney! he was the youngest.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Monday 29 November 10 22:25 GMT (UK)
I see you have the marriage indexing for Mary TINDALE and EDWARD JAMES ELGIN COADE.

I can see his first listing in the WA Post Office Directory

1899

COADE, EDWD J. E. 36 Padbury St Perth.

Sue

ADDING

He remains at that address through 1901 and 1902, but by 1903 has moved house.

COADE, EDWD J. 23 Ventnor Aven. Perth.

http://slwa.wa.gov.au/


Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Monday 29 November 10 22:43 GMT (UK)
A couple of snippets from  the web

Quote
Blanche Nicholls married three times - the first to her 52 year old cousin, the second time to a hotel owner called Walter Pemberton whose son had married her elder sister, and finally to a man younger than her son. All her offspring eventually moved to Perth after the collapse of the Victorian boom economy. She has an unmarked grave in Beechworth.



Edward James Elgin Coade
Quote
Ted Coade was a window dresser in Bon Marche, a department store in Melbourne when he met an ambitious young dressmaker Mary Tindall. H ewas regarded as a "toff" in his beaver hat and ruby stickpin, with a fine set of blonde moustaches, colouring which he passed on to many of his descendants.
The couple were initially poor but on moving to the wheatbelt in Western Australia, took over the local post office and store and made enough money to buy a large mixed farm at Yealering called "Lambton Downs". It's not clear where th efamily fortune came from but it may have had something to do with Mary's half brother Ned, an engineer who was Commisioner for railways. It is suspected she bought options on land along the new rail line to Albany and made a killing for the whole family.
Ted enjoyed a drink, as a hotel child, and on one occasion got so merry he rode his horse into the bar of the Wickepin pub. When he got home his wife and daughter were packing to leave. He had to promise he would never drink again, which he
did not - but it is suspected he occasionally slipped out for a quiet brew.

Eventually they retired to Perth and built a house in a prime spot overlooking the Swan River and a stste of teh art art-deco movie house in Subiaco called the Regal.

His wife Mary had dementia in her later years and one day wandered into a garden fire. Ted suffered severe burns trying to rescue her and died shortly after from pneumonia.

Jenn
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Aussie1947 on Tuesday 30 November 10 00:04 GMT (UK)
Hi,

1905 WA PO Directory

Coade E J (C & Rydings) 382-386 Newcastle St Perth
Coade & Rydings, Drapers 382-386 Necastle St Perth & Collie.

Looks like a partnership with a Rydings with stores in Perth & Collie.

1910 PO Directory
Drapers
Coade E J, 447 Newcastle St Perth.

New address at 447 Newcastle St ( No Rydings)

Gerry
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 30 November 10 02:58 GMT (UK)
We should note for your records Maree that DAVID HERBERT PEMBERTON married twice in WA


DEWAR ADELINE M M   
To PEMBERTON DAVID H S         
Reg. 13 Yr 1925

She died

PEMBERTON ADELINE M M
At BRUCE ROCK
Reg. 6 Year 1938

His second marriage.

PEMBERTON, DAVID H   
To POTTER DOROTHY F
At PERTH   
Reg. 334 Year 1942

As mentioned in Reply #30,the daughter of EDWARD JAMES ELGIN COADE, DORIS IRENE COADE who was born in South Melbourne  in 1896 #5155 married in WA to ARTHUR T. HEWETT

Although the parents are not listed on this index entry, I believe this is their daughter.

HEWETT, DOROTHY C.
At PERTH
REG. 1328 Year 1923

According to a number of online biographies, she was a very well known author and grew up at Lambton Downs, the property mentioned above in Jenn's findings. a very colourful life!!

She died in 2002

A photo of her ;)

http://www.austlit.edu.au/run?ex=ShowAgent&agentId=A%2Ban
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Tuesday 30 November 10 04:36 GMT (UK)
Nice find Sue ;D

Jenn

Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Tuesday 30 November 10 08:41 GMT (UK)
Thank you to everyone. You are so professional, beats my sumising.
I can only imagine that after Blanche died Edward and his wife took on his younger half brothers and sisters or some of them at least which is how they came to be in WA. Daisy was only 17 when she married in Perth so this fits.
I will now look for how Sydney went to NSW and maybe his marriage as we know he is buried in Hamilton.
The name Elgin - there is an Elgin Road in Beechworth and the Nicholls decendants certainly live there.
Neither Blanche nor her son Edward were related to me but the four children she bore became my G Grandfathers half brothers and sisters . It is amazing how intrigued I am by her and what became of her children after she died.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Tuesday 30 November 10 09:20 GMT (UK)
It is amazing how intrigued I am by her and what became of her children after she died.  Maree


Mmm.. we all understand this feeling of being intrigued by the ancestors...

Once you start... mmm... ;)

Sue
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Milly Mac on Saturday 03 September 11 09:21 BST (UK)
Hi,
I'm Sydney Pemberton's granddaughter. - Just correcting a little note - David was the younger brother.
I don't know all the family history - yet- but I'll help you with anything I have.
Louise.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Milly Mac on Saturday 03 September 11 09:27 BST (UK)
Thank you to everyone. You are so professional, beats my sumising.
I can only imagine that after Blanche died Edward and his wife took on his younger half brothers and sisters or some of them at least which is how they came to be in WA. Daisy was only 17 when she married in Perth so this fits.
I will now look for how Sydney went to NSW and maybe his marriage as we know he is buried in Hamilton.
The name Elgin - there is an Elgin Road in Beechworth and the Nicholls decendants certainly live there.
Neither Blanche nor her son Edward were related to me but the four children she bore became my G Grandfathers half brothers and sisters . It is amazing how intrigued I am by her and what became of her children after she died.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: john386 on Tuesday 08 November 11 16:35 GMT (UK)
Thank you to everyone. You are so professional, beats my sumising.
I can only imagine that after Blanche died Edward and his wife took on his younger half brothers and sisters or some of them at least which is how they came to be in WA. Daisy was only 17 when she married in Perth so this fits.
I will now look for how Sydney went to NSW and maybe his marriage as we know he is buried in Hamilton.
The name Elgin - there is an Elgin Road in Beechworth and the Nicholls decendants certainly live there.
Neither Blanche nor her son Edward were related to me but the four children she bore became my G Grandfathers half brothers and sisters . It is amazing how intrigued I am by her and what became of her children after she died.
Title: John McNeil
Post by: john386 on Tuesday 08 November 11 16:46 GMT (UK)
Hi Milly, I am new to this site, still getting lost.  I was in Barra a few weeks ago trying to find out about McNeil, the Heritage centre was not very helpful, I was only there for 2 days, a hurricane was blowing everything shut, I did find a grave with a John McNeil and Mary McNeil he was about 28yrs, death by drowning.  My family are predominantly John & Matthew McNeils, maybe I had relatives that went to Aus'. If I can be of any help, don't hesitate. Johns grave was beside that of the author of 'Whisky Galore'.  Good luck  from John McNeil.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: joeflood on Thursday 05 January 12 02:27 GMT (UK)
This site is a pain - if you try to answer someone it makes you log in, then it takes you far away - it has taken me 20 minutes to find my way back.

It is not often I see people chatting about my grandmother and great grandparents, usually I am chatting about theirs. You can see the full family tree of the COADEs and PEMBERTONs up on worldconnect, database "dorothyhewett", where it has been for five years. It has most of this information, plus a lot more. I thought the "Elgin" came from the British composer, but perhaps not.

 The full story of Blanche Nicholls, Edward Coade, Mary Tindale and their rise from rags to riches appears in my forthcoming book "Unravelling  the CODE: The Coads and Coodes of Cornwall and Devon".

Louise I have had a chance to talk to my aunt and they didnt take in the Pemberton children. I have a couple of pictures of Daisy Pemberton as a young woman in crowd scenes - seems she was friendly with the Tindales. I have been told Daisy is up the back with the "split enz" hair. Rene looks about 7 so it must be around 1903
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: sparrett on Thursday 05 January 12 02:59 GMT (UK)
 it must be around 1903  joeflood


The words on the photo say "Xmas1904"

I am sure we all regret that you have so far found this site to be a pain.

Hopefully, you will decide to persevere and develop your understanding of how things are set up so that there is no more needless time wasting for you.

Sue


Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: joeflood on Thursday 05 January 12 04:14 GMT (UK)
Does nothing towards fixing the problem Sue. I had hoped for an explanation.

Certainly when I reply to a post notified by email, it takes me straight to the right place. When I try to reply to one found on google - oh dear.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: tropicalj on Thursday 05 January 12 04:48 GMT (UK)
Welcome to rootschat

you should be getting a notification by email  that a post has occurred on  your topic  you then click on  the link provided and it will get you back here

Jenn
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: joeflood on Thursday 05 January 12 06:40 GMT (UK)
Thanks Jenn. Buggy websites aside:

I see that I have actually put up two trees of the family on rootsweb, they come up top if you google "Edward James Elgin Coade" but not if you google  Pemberton, as they are too old now. They were the first trees I put up there, so they are getting rather dated. They were never too strong on Pemberton, as it was not their main focus - which was "Coades of Praze-an-Beeble and Beechworth".

Ted (E J E) and Mary Coade my ggps are in the front of the picture I posted. Mary was the evil genius of the family. Her stepfather Robert Tindale is behind with (Doris I)rene my gm on his knee, and his three daughters are to the left. Daisy is the only Pemberton there - but it does show she was in Perth 1904, two years after her mother the much-married Blanche Nicholls died.

==========================================

There has always been some debate on which hotel in Beechworth Walter Pemberton owned - my family always swore that Ted Coade had been brought up in the Star Hotel - however the following settles it ( book exerpt):

=========================================
At any rate Thomas and Blanche, heedless of the 37 year age gap, settled down in Beechworth with their new son Edward Elgin Coade.  Six years later Thomas died. His estate was fairly modest - Cash £50, property $53, debt Lloyd’s Bank £27. Costs of admin £26, funeral £16, balance £34

Blanche, being appreciative of the virtues of older men, married in the same year 1874 her elder sister’s father in law, the widower Walter Pemberton, a youngster only 27 years her senior. Walter was a blacksmith and wheelwright, and held a publican’s licence for the Nicholas Hotel  in Beechworth which in a gold mining town should have been a licence to print money. The hotel was built in 1857 and known at that time as the Railway Hotel. A forge in the hotel yard is reputedly the place where Joe Byrne of the Kelly Gang had his armour made. Ned Kelly’s bare-knuckle fight with Isaiah “Wild Wright” was held in the year of their marriage, and the site backs onto the hotel. In the family is a pewter mug from the hotel, from which Ned, Australia’s most famous bushranger and a national icon, is alleged to have drunk.

With Pemberton, Blanche had four more children – and young Ted Coade was brought up in the atmosphere of a noisy gold rush hotel. Walter died more than twenty years later in 1895, with their youngest child only 2 years old. The following year, not being partial to the company of men her own age, Blanche married her son’s best friend, Machin Tomlinson, 13 years her junior. The hotel had not been Blanche’s fortune: when she died in 1902 at the age of 50 she was put to rest in an unmarked pauper’s grave.




Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: cns on Thursday 17 April 14 14:19 BST (UK)
Mary Ann PEMBERTON (née) BEST (1825-1853) was my 3+ grandmother. For those wondering about the cause of her death, she died of exhaustion, a typical outcome of Ascites from which she suffered for seven months.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: may164 on Friday 18 April 14 00:21 BST (UK)
Hello, Mary Ann too is my 2x g grandmother. Her death cert took a while to locate and her burial record too. I think of her  every 25th Dec.
Would you like to chat further on personal email about our shared family knowledge?I may have some bits and pieces for you if interested.
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: cns on Friday 18 April 14 00:30 BST (UK)
Hello, may164, I would like to chat with you on personal email. I am new to this site, so could you explain the process that enables personal emails between us?
Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: joeflood on Sunday 20 November 16 00:16 GMT (UK)
I dont know if anyone still sees this site - but we  have found a trove of Beechworth Pemberton and Tindall photos.They are on
https://www.flickr.com/photos/133540890@N07/sets/72157675238032301

also  the Coad book has something about these Pembertons - specifically  the passages above
http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/coad

Joe Flood


Title: Re: PEMBERTON - 1853 Victoria
Post by: Milly Mac on Sunday 20 November 16 05:18 GMT (UK)
Wow! Thanks Joe, it was a wonderful surprise to see photos of my Great Grandparents for the first time.
Can you give me a contact to Rozanna Lilley to thank her too?
I take it that she is a cousin of yours.
Best wishes,
Louise.