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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Gloucestershire => Topic started by: velcro on Friday 19 November 10 11:02 GMT (UK)
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Hi
Any assistance to find where in Wortley the premises of this businessman please?
1861 Census
Watby/Wortly?,
Wotton under Edge, Glous
RG9/1750/79/13
Thomas EXCELL, 80, Head, Mar, Grocer, born Alderley, Glous
Cheers
Velcro
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not knowing glos is watby/ wortly in wooton under edge only i,ve looked in some historical directories and so far can,t find your thomas excell
trevor
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The address on the 1861 image appears to just be Wortley - as it is for many other entries so I would guess it was an area/ village in Wotton under Edge
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Hi
Thank you for the response. Is there a Grocery Store in 1861 Owned by Thomas Excell/Exall in Synwell WUE GLS?
Cheers
Velcro
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Hi
Son Charles Excell b1813 WUE GLS
Census shows
Occupation 1841 Coal Dealer
Occupation 1846 Greengrocer
Census 1871 80 Bunhill Row, St Lukes, Finsbury London EC1
Occupation 1871 Oil and Colourman should this read (Coalman?)
Any records of this business with the Oil?
Cheers
Velcro
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Hi Debbie
This is Jilly who sent you the information about Charles Excell. Charles Excell's businesses were in Bunhill Row, St Luke's Middlesex not in Gloucestershire.
Cheers
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Hi Debbie
This is Ferreter again. No the term colorman should not read coalman. I got this information from the original handwritten census. I have noticed this term before. The term oilshop was often and sometimes still used to describe what we would generally call a hardware shop. Selling oil, paraffin, candles nails paint etc. etc. The colourman would refer to mixing paint colours etc. Coal dealing would have been a separate enterprise. Charles was a coal dealer when he first moved to London and was living in Ironmonger Row.
Cheers
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No the term colorman should not read coalman. I got this information from the original handwritten census.
Not that you need it, but this might help confirm what you've just said ! :)
(http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1180/colormany.jpg)
Kind regards,
Pels.
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Thank you Pels. Nice to have the confirmation. You obviously have access to the originals. I got my copy about 12 years ago on one of my many trips to the family records office. Following which I visited the site where the shop would have been. Gone I'm afraid. More than likely destroyed by second world war bombing as was much of the area. However I did find the shop in the Kelly's Director where Charles was described as an oilman. So much easier to search for family now that we have computers, and the last thing I would wish would be to lose the convenience and breadth of knowledge one can gain with their use However, I have to confess that I do not regret those early days when everything I found seemed to take much more effort but the joy of finding each detail was like uncovering a prercious gem! Charles was my great great grandfather and by following his trail so avidly along with my other ancestors I almost feel I knew him. I have in my possession a beautiful old Grandfather clock which was left by Charles and his wife to their grandson who was my grandfather George Excell Harvey, then subsequently left to my father and then to me.
On the handpainted face of the clock it gives the maker's name and place where it was made. it is woen away and says Thornb... which I have now found out is Thornbury. A town not too far from where Charles lived in Iron Acton in Gloucestershire. So the clock travelled with them on their move to London. Wish my Dad was still alive so I could tell him Oh the joys of genealogy!! If there is interest, I could probably take a picture of the clock and post it here/
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Hi Ferreter
Could we contact each other privately so to share records concerning Charles Excell and families please?
Eg What is Charles Excell's marriage date to Hester Offer please?
Merry Christmas to all.
Cheers
Velcro ;D
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Hi all
If you look on google maps you can find Wortley just south of Wotton-under-Edge.
I used to live in Wotton and now live in Thornbury (tho' away from home at the moment). If anyone wants any pictures let me know
Linda
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Hi everybody :) Velcro I have sent you a pm about our connection but I have also already posted a query on the Gloucester notice board re Charles Excell and Hester Offers marriage to which to date I have had nil replies. This is one of my brick walls.
danuslave Yes I would love a couple of pictures it all sounds so wonderful. Will try to make a visit myself some time.
Thinking again about the Grocers shop, I have looked on the Google maps at Wortley whis is only 1.4 miles from Wotton and Alderley(where Thomas was born) only another .5 mile further on. Does anybody think it possible that the Grocery business was at Wotton. Going into street-view for both villages they are very very tiny but neverthless each has its own church. Would they have had their own shops? We are talking of a period around 1841 to 1861. Thomas was an active member of the community running the Sunday School at the Wotton tabernacle etc.
Seasons greetings and kind regards to all 8)
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Hi Ferreter
You might find these interesting
http://wotton-under-edge.com
http://wotton-under-edge.org/
http://cotswoldedge.org.uk/w-u-e/w-u-e.htm
www.wottonheritage.com/
all from google :)
Linda
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Hi everybody
Thanks for the websites. I already had visited two of the sites and the other two provided some valuable information. I especially liked the pictures of old Wotton and Wortley. Apparently prior to the Excells dwelling there Wortley had a very successful woollen mill owned by a family who lived in Wortley Hall but the bottom fell out of their business around 1820. D :Don't know if the remains of the mill still exist. Also there was a little bit of info. about a Jotcham family, who appear to be builders. Miriam Excell who was Thomas' grandaughter and worked as a shopmaid in his shop married a Charles Jotcham in 1866. Maybe they met when he came into her grandfather's shop
Fascinating stuff. All helps to provide a picture of days gone by
Thanks again Ferreter. :D :D :D
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Hi Another bit to add 1881 census shows Charles and Mirriam living in Old Town, Wotton under Edge. Him a Bootmaker and Grocer, Her a Grocer and Bootmaker's wife. Please could somebody look up the 1871 census as if they were doing the same thing then it could be they took over Thomas' shop.
Thank you in anticipation :-\
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1871 - RG10/2591/44/25
Old Town, Wotton under Edge
Charles Jotcham Head Mar 35 Pawn Broker & Grocer b Wotton
Miriam Jotcham Wife Mar 35 Iron Acton
William E Jotcham Son 1 Wotton
There is still a building firm called Jotcham & Kendall Ltd in Wotton
Linda
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Hi
That is really great Linda Thank you. I love the mixture of Pawn Broker and Grocer. Times were much harder in those days. I expect some poor people had to pawn belongings just to get a few groceries. I have heard of somebody pawning their Sunday suit and then getting it back when thery were paid in time to wear it to church on Sunday, but cannot verify this. ;)
Bye the way I think you "fashion sense" is great I used to be dressed like that!
Thanks Ferreter
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Hi folks
Still posting on Velcro's query. I have now found out that Wortley was not actually a village, but a tiny hamlet without any church about 1.4 miles outside of Wotton on the Edge. Its population has hardly changed in size. There was a farm, a mill and a few very old houses, and Wortley House a rather larger house. Therefore there would not have been a grocer's shop in Wortley and I am convinced that Thomas' Grocers shop was indeed in Wotton under Edge and probably in "Old Town" which is not far from the Tabernacle which he served for 30 years according to his obituary. I do not know if there is a Kelly's directory or similar which shows a Grocer's Shop belonging to either Excell or Jotcham. If somebody has access both Velcro and myself would be very grateful
Thanks :)