RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Monaghan => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Monday 01 January 07 15:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
A first cousin of mine has realised that on her father's side she is connected to the KNIGHT family of Clones. Apparently there is a Michael Elliott KNIGHT who was born at some time in the late 19thC in Clones, possibly. His wife, Mary YOUNG was born in Gartinardress in nearby County CAVAN.
Does anybody know anything about these individuals, or indeed this particular branch of the KNIGHT family...
Sorry to be so vague!
Very best wishes,
keith
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I was born in Co Monaghan not far from Clones . My father use to talk of a Knight who was a solicitor either in Clones or in Monaghan town. He would have lived from about the 1880's into the early 1900's. I'm sure there must be some records of his
residence in Monaghan town.
Ihope this might help
Lynchris
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Hi, Lynchris,
Thanks so much for responding to my New Year's Day message! I haven't spoken to my cousin for the 9 intervening months or so, but I shall contact her and ask whether there might have been a solicitor in the family.
Do you know where I might be able to access a directory of the Clones area for this time...?
keith
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Hi Keith,
There are quite a few web sites under Irish Genealogy. I find www.Ulster Ancestry useful (Co. Monaghan is in Ulster).I used a
researcher in Monaghan town when I was researching my families
and found him very efficient.
You can get his address and 'phone no. there. hemay be able to
help you more than I.
Don't hesitate to contact me if I can be of any further
help.
Lynchris
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1910 Ulster Directory- under Clones there was M.E. Knight, solicitor, Diamond.
www.libraryireland.com/UlsterDirectory1910/Clones.php
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Thanks very much for that Lynchris,
Just got in from a day at the races at Newmarket with my daughter, so still haven't made that phonecall to my cousin in Gloucester.
And Aghadowey, where or what exactly is "Diamond"?
Regards,
keith
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"Diamond" is the address. In Ireland a Diamond is the point where two (usually) or more roads intersect. Often the centre of a town or village but sometimes can be in the country.
P.s. also called 'The Diamond' sometimes.
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Hi again Keith,
The Diamond is what I suppose you could call a square in the
middle of Monaghan town. It's where three streets meet so I think it' s more a triangle!!!! If you type in Googble or your search engine
monaghan town you can download a map of the town showing The Diamond clearly.
Lynchris
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Aghadowey and Lynchris,
Thanks very much for putting me right on this! Will have a good look at it all tomorrow now...
keith
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Hi again Lynchris and Aghadowey, (and anyone else who might be able to lend a hand!)
Have just spoken on the phone to my cousin, and this Michael Elliott KNIGHT, solicitor, is the very man whose family she wanted to discover more about.
Apparently, she received a Christmas card last year from an elderly member of this KNIGHT family, (maybe a son, possibly a grandson) and she thinks she remembers that when her mother and father were married in 1947 at Drumbeg (which is in the Londonderry area?), this man's brother was best man.
So there was quite a close association between the YOUNG and the KNIGHT family. Do you think the researcher whose name you gave me is the best way forward, or might there be a cheaper way of pursuing this KNIGHT family further back in time in the Monaghan area.
I imagine they had quite a high profile in the County if Michael Elliott KNIGHT was a solicitor in 1910. I wonder if it was a family firm...?
Very best wishes,
Keith
N.B. Quite surprised myself just now to find on the IGI an entry for a birth on 13-01-1869, baptism on 14-03-1869 for a Michael Elliott KNIGHT in Clones, Monaghan, parents George KNIGHT and Nannie.
I hadn't in my innocence realised that Irish parish records existed to any great extent because of the conflagration in 1916 in Dublin.
Does this mean that I might perhaps be able to trace this family back further through Record Repositories in Ireland, then...?
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For starters, IGI on a 'Knight in Monaghan' search throws up some potential leads, including a Michael Elliot Knight born 13/1/1869 - it has a batch ref, so should be fairly accurate. Would fit for your solicitor chap in 1910 methinks.
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You could try writing to the local library or area library that carries local records and ask if they can help with M.E. Knight.
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Scotmum,
Our posts just crossed in the ether! Thanks so much for getting onto my KNIGHT case. I'm beginning to get quite hopeful about things...
keith
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Looks like the parents George and Annie (nee Elliott) had a few other children too.
Seems to be a few variations on the mums name - Nannie, Ann, Annie.
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I was wondering about the "Nannie", was it supposed to be "Annie", then? I'll print out the KNIGHT's in that batch number and sort through it now.
And, what is the general situation in Ireland about surviving parish records, by the by. I suppose some areas are by chance better represented than others...
keith
Ah, posts stumbling over one another in my excitement - you've already answered the Annie variation question...
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It really does vary. In similar timescale to your research (mid to late 1800's) I recently managed to track down a birth and marriage and was able to get copy certificates from the Registrars office in Monaghan Town (albeit initially they said they didn't have registers for the timescale needed). Didn't cost much either.
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Think this might be your M E Knight too:
http://orangeroots.tripod.com/twelfthmonaghan1923.html
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Wow! Scotmum,
That 1923 account makes very interesting reading - County Grand Master indeed! I wonder whether the A.Y.KNIGHT mentioned was a family member too?
That Batch No. is labelled as being 1682-1733, presumably for the local church in Clones, County Monaghan. However there seem to be distinct surges of KNIGHT family baptisms: 1694-1703; one in 1771; one in 1808; 1837-1845; one in 1856; and 1867-1871.
The family might have migrated around a bit, but maybe there was always a family home/seat in Clones. Could perhaps this Protestant family have been one of those who settled in the area after the Battle of the Boyne and the displacement of Catholic Families; or is my grasp of the local history awry?
keith
N.B. Has the present Protestant Church in Clones been there for a while?
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That Batch No. is labelled as being 1682-1733, presumably for the local church in Clones, County Monaghan. However there seem to be distinct surges of KNIGHT family baptisms: 1694-1703; one in 1771; one in 1808; 1837-1845; one in 1856; and 1867-1871.
N.B. Has the present Protestant Church in Clones been there for a while?
Sounds like IGI records are taken from Parish (Church of Ireland) Church. St. Tighernach's Parish Church is in Clones (Diocese of Clogher):
www.ireland.anglican.org
You can order microfilm from LDS to view at your local LDS library for a small fee.
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Aghadowey,
Thanks very much for that information. I might well order that microfilm from my local LDS Family Records Centre here ...
keith
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Keith, I had just finished typing a longish reply with various links last night when the site went down on me. Will try to remember what I had said and linked to and post again later.
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Scotmum,
That's SO infuriating! It's happened to me on several occasions, and it's such an effort to pick oneself up straight away and try to replicate all one has put down. I tried to get on here late yesterday again, but they were overloaded, apparently.
Will look forward patiently to your renewed efforts in due course on my behalf...
keith
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Wow! Scotmum,
That 1923 account makes very interesting reading - County Grand Master indeed! I wonder whether the A.Y.KNIGHT mentioned was a family member too?
OK, remembered first part of my post at any rate. It was to say that as well as an A.Y. Knight mentioned, there was also a George Knight. If you recall, I said a parent search on IGI had thrown up some siblings for M.E. Well, these included an Alexander and a George, so possibly those mentioned were his brothers.
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Yes, I spotted George when I reread that link. The forenames George, Alexander and James seem to recur time and again all the way from the 17thC to the present time...
keith
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One of the other things in my lost post was this old style Multimap (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=-815000&Y=7162500&width=700&height=400&gride=-776208.545403338&gridn=7182220.4778863&srec=0&coordsys=mercator&db=w3&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=1&scale=200000). You can zoom in on Clones and pan around (http://www.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi?client=public&X=-802500&Y=7167500&width=700&height=400&gride=-776208.545403338&gridn=7182220.4778863&srec=0&coordsys=mercator&db=w3&addr1=&addr2=&addr3=&pc=&advanced=&local=&localinfosel=&kw=&inmap=&table=&ovtype=&keepicon=true&zm=0&scale=100000&multimap.x=383&multimap.y=205) to see where the various townlands lie.
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Scotmum,
Thanks very much for familiarising me with the local landmarks. But even now if someone over my shoulder asks questions of me re Irish history, such as when Monaghan and Cavan County ceased to be in Ulster, or indeed why they are not now part of Northern Ireland, I'm lost for words.
Such a complicated history, or am I simply ignorant and naive...?
Regards,
Keith
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Dear Keith,
Irish hisory is indeed complicated even for an Irishman!!!!! You
will also find that there are two versions of Irish history depending
on whether you are Republican/Nationalist or Unionist.A bill was passed at Westminster giving Ireland Home Rule (previously the whole island was part of the United Kingdom). The Unionists were opposed tothe bill and the Great War intervened before the bill could be put in place. In 1916 there was an abortive attempt at a
Republication.In short after the war and some say to prevent civil war an agreement in1921 to partition the island was imposed on the Irish representatives. Now the Further complication.
There are 9 counties in the province of
Ulster but only 6 in Northern Ireland.When trhe border was drawn
Donegal , Cavan and Monaghan were left in The Free State as it
was then known(now Eire or Republic of Ireland )The other 6 Down
Armagh Fermanagh Tyrone Londonderry and Antrim make up
Northern Ireland which is still part of the United Kingdom of Great
Britian and Northern Ireland.This means that Paisley is wrong when
he says Ulster when he means Northern Ireland and Sinn Fein
refer to The North of Ireland instead of Northern Ireland as a studied insult to the Unionists!!!!!!
I hope I haven't confused you more than you were.
Regards
Lynchris
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Thanks very much for that, Lynchris.
As you say, a crystal-clear history...!
keith
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Hi again, Everyone,
Have finally caught up with the cousin I mentioned in the thread I started on here exactly a year ago, and together we have made very good progress with previous generations of the KNIGHT family in Clones.
The family definitely stayed in the town, but we have been unable to find a record of a marriage between Michael Elliott KNIGHT and a female member of the YOUNG family sometime just before 1900 or so, or perhaps even a little later. There were possible four children named Michael, James, Alexander and George...
If anyone knows where this information might be lodged, I would be most grateful,
Very best wishes,
Keith
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Hi, Everyone,
Just a postscript on here to say that yesterday I got together with my (aforementioned!) cousin and when we went on the internet we managed to contact a lady living in the U.S.A who had six photographs of my cousin's KNIGHT family, which she immediately sent images of...She's also going to send the originals to my cousin, only wanting her expenses re postage and packing to be met. She says she simply loves to reunite primary sources such as photos with living members of the family concerned.
One of the sepia snaps is of my cousin's grandfather, aged about 3 in the same pose as her gt-grandmother (the little boy's mother). The photo was taken in the early 1880's in Clones, at J. Galway photographers.
It's all SO exciting and generous of someone we've never met, living across the Atlantic, hoping that one day these photos would find their way home as it were.
And thank you so much all those people who have kept me going on this thread over the past year...
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Fantastic news, Keith, thanks for updating us all. I love it when things like this happen. I was fortunate to have contact with someone recently who sent us a wonderful picture of the sister of my husband's great great grandad. Such things are to be treasured. I always feel sad when watching programmes on TV where people are selling off family heirlooms/pictures because they have no interest in them. Future generations may have liked to have had the chance to see these things.
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Hi, Everyone,
Just an update to say that my cousin in (poor flooded) Gloucester received those precious family photos at the end of last week. She is overjoyed...
Many thanks for all the help,
keith
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Good news about the photos - not so good about the flooding.
Maybe when you get a chance, you could share a photo with us on this thread.
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Another update!
Have just received a PM from someone directly descended from Michael Elliott KNIGHT, very excited and interested in sharing family details. Must phone my lucky cousin again this evening...
keith
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I'm having a good run with some of my lines at the moment too.
Hope it goes well.
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hello again... my father has now dug out three photos which i will try and scan and send onto you..paddy.
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An 1869 newspaper notes a George Knight, Clones a solicitor.
Have sent you a PM re other entries, including Michael E Knight ones.
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First of all, Paddy, would be very interested in seeing those photogaph's that your father has. You've told me by PM that he is Michael Elliott KNIGHT's grandson; I hope too that the ones I sent you of the KNIGHT and YOUNG family taken in the 1880's have come to you safely...
And Scotmum, those entries in the newspapers of the time look extremely interesting, must have a good search through every example for more details.
Regards, keith
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Hello there,
I know that these posts are quite old now, but I only came across them this evening. Can you confirm that you are still researching the Knight family. I have lots of information that will be of help to you.
D
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Hi, Dummy, and welcome to Rootschat!
And, yes, absolutely still interested in any information you might have for me (and my first cousin) about the KNIGHT family.
You could PM me on Rootschat (send me a personal message), and we could exchange e-mails that way; or you could put your info on this thread, whichever you prefer.
Look forward very much to hearing from you again soon...
Very best wishes,
keith
P.S. I just love it when a dormant thread bursts back into life after (in this case) 7 months, a long pause...
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Dummy won't be able to use personal message system until posting a few more messages.
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Keith,
I have just sent information to you which I hope you will find interesting.
D
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hi,
did you know that the knight family still live in michael knight's old house in clones.
i know them.
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Hi, Spearbean,
So that everyone can keep up to speed about what has been going on with the KNIGHT family, thanks to Dummy, who provided the previous post on here, my cousin has now been in contact with descendants of this family who still live in the town - which is very exciting.
And further excitement with your new input (a slightly different angle, but another excellent piece of the jigsaw!). I've just now got your PM and will contact my cousin in Gloucester again this evening to tell her that the picture widens...
Very best wishes,
keith
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P.S. I just love it when a dormant thread bursts back into life after (in this case) 7 months, a long pause...
Great to see that this is still going - always encouraging for others to see that patience can produce results.
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Scotmum,
I quite agree. Some very kind and helpful people (quite often completely new to Rootschat - coming on this thread just to help out) have been rather like a terrier with a bone, never letting things be, never letting up on this thread.
By the by, and this is totally off topic, does anyone else who might be watching the BBC's "Little Dorrit" think - as I do - think that the character playing the resourceful Pancks looks just like a Bull Terrier himself...?
keith
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:)
Hello Keith, we are the Knight family presently living in the Seat of the Knight family. My husband George Knight is grandson of Michael Elliot Knight, who married Mary Clemina Yound, Gort an Ardress, Cavan, we have the entire history if you woould care to contact us.
email (*)
would be delighted to share entire history with you. Teh information you have is all accurate.
Patricia Knight
(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility.
See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
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Patricia,
I believe that my cousin came to visit you and your husband this summer, and had a lovely time catching up with all things KNIGHT/YOUNG.
I'd started this thread particularly in the hope that she might be able to trace her Irish roots. This has undoubtedly been achieved, with wonderful results. I'll contact her today to tell her that you contacted me on here, in case my understanding of what has happened so far is not entirely correct.
A great success story for Rootschat, and many, many thanks to you and everyone else who has contributed to this thread...
Very best wishes, keith
p.s. As this thread can be seen by absolutely everyone, perhaps you need to delete your e-mail address from here (I have it safely noted down!)
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Happy ending and great to see information has been received, shared and digested. My husband George is an Historian, and though many of the family papers were destroyed on the death of his uncle George Walter Knight, solicitor, who died in 1984, enough remained for George to piece together the missing pieces of the jig saw.
Willing to share with Knights and Young's.
recurring names in the Family are George, William, Alex, Elliott, Andrew, Alexander, Victoria, Jessica, and indeed James.
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...and James indeed. My uncle Jimmy (James YOUNG), who died in 2001, would have been extremely pleased to know that the KNIGHT/YOUNG family history is safely noted down for posterity.
Regards, keith
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hi keith,i dont know if you have found out yet but there are knights still living in the diamond at clones,regards j.
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sorry didnt see the above.
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Hi, Greaghglass,
Thanks very much for taking the time to chip in here! As you can see, this thread has been one of the (many) Rootschat success stories...
Regards, keith
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hello there,
I saw your message about the knight familoy in clones, I am michael knights great grand daughter (his son was my grandfather) and I would love to know more about the family wetc. Any help would be appreciated. Regards, High1543
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Hello, High1543, and welcome to Rootschat!
This has been a very productive thread indeed, and I will PM you (send you a message on here by the Personal Message route). My cousin, for whom I started all this, would be very interested to discover that she has another relative. But you need to make another couple of posts on here before I can do that - if you reply on here to this, then I'll acknowledge your reply, then if you post again I can send you a PM message. Please don't post your e-mail address on here, for we can continue to communicate "behind the scenes" as it were.
Very best wishes, keith
p.s. I've just realised your initial post is not on the one with all the information about Michael KNIGHTS and family, but you should be able to find it easily enough on the County Monaghan boards, a little bit further down the page, with over 50 posts to date on it...
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Hi Keith,
Thanks for getting back so quickly, I have discovered how hard it is to trace irish family this website is a godsend!!! I see from the thread that your cousin lives in gloucester which is uncanny as I live about 20 miles away. Thanks again look forward to hearing from you. Regards Gemma
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Hi again, Gemma,
Was that other thread at all useful in discovering more about your KNIGHT family? People on there have, as usual, been really helpful. My cousin is not back in this country until the middle of the week after next. If you post once more on this thread I can PM you with more precise personal details...
Regards, Keith
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hi keith,
I am still navigating my way around the site!! I am really a bit of a technophobe, but I will get there in the end! I spoke to my mother last night and she is really interested in all this as she doesn't know too much about her fathers side of the family.
Great to hear from you again. Best wishes Gemma
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Gemma,
Got a postcard from my cousin this morning, and she'll be back next week, and I'll talk to her about your interest in and connection to this branch of the KNIGHT family. Will very shortly PM you...
Regards, keith
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Michael Elliott KNIGHT was a Solicitor in Clones as far as I know there still are Knights Sols in business there. Try emailing someone from http://www.clones.ie/ they might know.
As they traded in The Diamond there is a good chance they attended St Tighernach's and there is a plaque there for 3 Knights who were killed in WW1.
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Hallmark,
Thanks very much for this WW1 memorial - I'll have to check with my cousin to see whether those three KNIGHT's listed were indeed part of this same family.
I believe this thread was one I began earlier to another one further down the Monaghan page. This subsequent, second thread proved to be a goldmine of KNIGHT information and extremely uselful contacts...
Regards, keith
N.B. Actually, I see that I started this thread at the end of December 2007, and the other, longer one on 1st January 2007, so my memory is playing tricks with me...!
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I'm working on a family tree that includes the Knight family of Clones, Monaghan. Recently whilst adding info re Dr Alexander Knight (son of James Irwin Knight & Anne Willis) born about 1821 at Corcummins, Clones, Monaghan I have come across references to nieces & nephews of Alexander named or from the Riddall family namely John K Riddall, James K Riddall, William Riddall, Margaret Macauley & Anna Ruth Bell. From my research it appears most of them moved to Canada but I'm not certain its the same family. If anyone can shed any light on this it would be great. Many thanks.
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http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=13812782&pid=r&n=0&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%83%C2%B7&query=knight&s=monaghan
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With Clones being on County Monaghan border....
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=13812782&pid=r&n=0&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%83%C2%B7&query=knight&s=fermanagh
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List of Landowners in 1870's ( 1 Acre & Over) Riddel
http://www.igp-web.com/IGPArchives/ire/monaghan/censubs/monaghan-landowners-p-y.txt
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Riddel headstones
http://search.freefind.com/find.html?si=13812782&pid=r&n=0&_charset_=UTF-8&bcd=%C3%B7&query=Riddel&s=monaghanstones
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
........re Dr Alexander Knight (son of James Irwin Knight & Anne Willis) born about 1821 at Corcummins, Clones, Monaghan........
Corcummins townland south of the town of Clones.
Corcummins in Civil Parish of Killeevan, Co. Monaghan
https://www.townlands.ie/monaghan/dartree/killeevan/newbliss/corcummins/
KG
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The Irish Government BDM website
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
has 3 stages to it as per attachment
even if you only put Surname and Clones as District you get them for that Surname
those with Returns Page No don't have Images yet but one can check back every now and then to see if any have been updated even once every 6 months!
If one knows the names from a Marriage e.g. "about 1870" just put Name in, Tick Marriage box and use Year Range 1868 to 1872 leaving District blank if unknown!
The Captcha and Sign in page are all part of process the Irish Government BDM website and do not take anyone to any other website!
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Because the Surname has a few variations in spelling I did a search as follows using only Ridd* on
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
and http://www.rootschat.com/links/01o8m/ will bring you to these.
You will need to solve Captcha and sign in!
____________________________
With 7 Registration Districts for Co Monaghan one needs to know these and they can be found on
https://www.swilson.info/regdistmap.php and Select the County from first dropdown box and note them.
Then change Clones to one of the others and Search them.
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https://www.irishgenealogy.ie/en/civil-records/help/what-civil-records-are-on-line explains the records available
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Hello from Canada, I am the Great Granddaughter of George Alexander Knight solicitor from Clones. He was affectionately referred to as "Buckie" by my mother who was the first child of Nora Isabell Knight who married Douglas Kenneth McMinn. My mother Nancy Creina Marshall nee McMinn often spoke of her family and their house in The Diamond and after at Trim Co:Meath. Are there any Knights still living in Clones or in Trim. I know some cousins lived in Dunmurry just outside Belfast. Anne Elliott, Buckie's wife has an interesting lineage back to the Fitzgeralds and the the Norman Conquest.
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Welcome to RootsChat :)
Can you give us some dates, please?
Are these McMinn's in the 1911 census related to you?
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Monaghan/Monaghan_Urban/The_Diamond/811369/
Also 1901
http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Monaghan/Monaghan_Rural/The_Diamond/1639003/
Have you used the Irish Genealogy search site?
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/civil-search.jsp
KG
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Hi Norah, just to confirm in response to your mention of Anne 'Nannie' Elliott Knight that she was a niece of my gg grandmother Matilda Jane Fitzgerald (daughter of James Fitzgerald & Elizabeth Young). Nannie Knights mother Anne Fitzgerald was a sister of Matilda Jane, as far as I am aware.
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Thank you for this. I would refer you to a James Fitzgerald, journalist and author of Toronto, Canada.
He has created an extensive family tree of the descendants of William Fitzgerald 11th Knight of Kerry. at http://jamesfitzgerald.info/Genealogy.html Also document http://www1.xe.net/~mbone/webtree/data/fitzgerald_d/index.htm
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Thank you for your reply. I have already seen the links & was in contact with both Mr Fitzgerald & Mr Bone a couple of years ago but for anyone who searching for Fitzgerald's of Clones & hasn't seen their research its well worth a look.