RootsChat.Com
General => The Common Room => Topic started by: Alexander. on Monday 15 November 10 03:48 GMT (UK)
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I'm puzzled by this, can anyone explain this?
I have a copy of my great grandparents original marriage certificate. The year given on the certificate is 1920, written clearly in three spots. At the bottom it says "Witness my Hand this 24th Day of December 1920" indicating this certificate was written on the day of the event (though the 0 does look a little smudged).
Just out of interest, I checked for them in the GRO index, and I was surprised to find this:
Marriages Dec qtr. 1921
Fellows, Francis W., Aston, vol. 6d: 853
Johnson, Doris A., Aston, vol. 6d: 853
But how can the marriage certificate and the GRO index be a full year different? Which is the correct year?
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When was their first child born? That could be one reason the certificate may have been changed.
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First child not born until mid June 1922. Do you think the certificate has been changed?
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It was not uncommon for certificates from a local Registrar's Office for a particular quarter to be 'lost in transit' to the GRO.......I suppose then if these turn up at a later date or are resent then there could be an error in the recording of the date for the index. Also the local Registrar's office indexed marriages by Church and not Surname....unlike the GRO
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The original scan on FreeBMD has it as 1921 and it is in the middle of the page not added down the bottom by hand so looks as if the 1921 is correct.
If the first child was born June 1922 then if they married in Dec 1921 the bride was pregnant at marriage. This would have been a reason for one of the parents to change the date of marriage. (My mum changed her birthdate on her birth cert because she was 3 years older than dad)
The 0's on your cert look thicker and bolder than the other numbers and the bottom one looks very messy doesn't it?
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Looking closely at the age column, both should have been 21 years old if married in 1921. I think you're right, all the 21's have been changed to 20's, including the ages! Didn't notice that before. If you look closely the 0's, they do look a bit flat on one side. And there's a bit of a large space between each 2 and 0.
Doris & Francis very nearly tricked me! Thanks.
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You could write to the local register office and give the names, place of marriage and dates and ask them to confirm the year as the certificate you have is 'illegible'
Dawn
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Or send for a copy of the certificate using the GRO reference, and compare their copy with yours.
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I will try your suggestion, Dawn. Failing that I might track down the parish marriage record, since I know of course what church they were married at. That should contain the same info.
I do feel quite confident now that all the 1s have been changed to 0s. Interestingly this is one of the only original certificates to be passed down in my family...so someone obviously wanted the marriage to go down in history as 1920 not 1921. They probably thought that nobody would bother checking if they had this certificate...well they were nearly right.
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First child not born until mid June 1922. Do you think the certificate has been changed?
Maybe that was not the first child ? What if the first child was miscarried or died at birth ?
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Maybe that was not the first child ? What if the first child was miscarried or died at birth ?
I had considered that, but I couldn't find any other Fellows-Johnson children in the right area (Birmingham) before the 1922 one. If there was a child born before their marriage then it would have the surname Johnson - and there's just too many of those to know if it is true.
Thanks
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Maybe that was not the first child ? What if the first child was miscarried or died at birth ?
I had considered that, but I couldn't find any other Fellows-Johnson children in the right area (Birmingham) before the 1922 one. If there was a child born before their marriage then it would have the surname Johnson - and there's just too many of those to know if it is true.
Thanks
If there was a miscarried child there would not be a record of it as the registration of stillbirths did not start until 1927
http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Governmentcitizensandrights/Registeringlifeevents/Birthandadoptionrecords/Registeringorchangingabirthrecord/DG_175614
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That's right, David :)
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They were married on the 24 Dec presumably in the parish church. This only leaves one week in the Christmas period for the register to be sent to the local registry office to be transcribed and included in the quarterly return.
There is also a certain amount of evidence that incomplete pages were sometimes held over to the next quarter.
I think this is a simple case of it missed the quarterly return. The index entries show the quarter for which the marriage was included in the GRO lists which is not necessarily the same as the quarter in which the marriage took place.
However this does not explain why the quarter is the Dec quarter in 1921.
David
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Just looking at the scan you have uploaded it does look like the 1921 has been changed to 1920
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Hi
Were they married in a church? If so, have you checked the parish records?
KR
Maryam
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I agree with crisane, it has been altered, when you look at the year after Witness my hand, it is very obvious,
Jebber
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Yes, I will try to track down the parish record to clear things up. I agree that someone probably changed all the 21s to 20s, but I'll know for sure once I find a way to check the PR.
Thanks for all your replies.
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You don't have to check the PR - just get a copy of the GRO record. You'll know within a week.
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Better still, seeing as it's Aston, order it from Birmingham Register Office and you will get a copy of the original (rather than the GRO transcript), and probably by return of post.
Or you have nothing to lose by ringing and speaking to their genealogist, John Yates - I did so recently to clarify a name on a certificate that was causing some difference of opinions. He looked it up then and there and (as it happened) agreed with my reading of it.
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Earlier today I emailed John Yates at the Birmingham Register Office to see if he could clarify it for me - I've heard from someone else that he has been very helpful in the past. If I don't get a response that way I will have to order the certificate from there or the GRO.
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Just received a reply from John Yates. He was ever so helpful, and confirmed that the date of the marriage was 24 December 1921, and both Francis and Amy's ages were 21.
Thanks for everyone's help!
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He is a super chap, always willing to help and offer advice. Those of us with Birmingham ancestors are lucky to have him just a phone call away ;D
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So glad you managed to sort it out ;D