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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Lanarkshire => Topic started by: Camillo on Friday 12 November 10 19:00 GMT (UK)
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Been looking unsuccessfully for a layout map of Dalbeth. I have a section I've never been to before which I'm looking for. I know where Sections 10 and 12 are but Section 13?
Is it in the corner down the hill from Section 10 just before the Clyde?
Any help much appreciated.
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Hi Camillo :)
You could try sending a PM to Gerry Farrell to see if he can help in working out where Section 13 may be located. See here for one of his previous posts on Dalbeth. In this thread www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,338593.0.html he mentions there is no map (reply #18) but he may be able to help in working out location from other relevant info.
Monica :)
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Thanks Monica. Ever helpful as usual.
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Hi Camillo,
I have send you a reply via Pm, However I thought I would share the information with anyone else who may also have an interest in Dalbeth.
Dalbeth / St Peter's is a massive cemetery in Glasgow, and one if only a couple still operated by the Catholic Church. The part which my interest lies is with the old walled off part which sat hidden from public view for a long time by tree's and bushes. Over the past few years this has been cleared and is looking like a cemetery again. There is however no surviving lair plan for this part and I have been working away shifting through records etc to try and come up with even a rough plan.
Two years on, and with the help of some others its looking very close to being completed.
St Peters however is still open (if that's the correct term) and the cemetery should have a plan layout of the sections.
I have added a pic of the cemetery and boxed off the old part where my interest lies and as you will see its a very small section of the graveyard, so i hope people enquiring about the other parts understand why I'm sadly unable to help them with section or lair locations there.
Gerry
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Hi Camillo,
Section 13 is the first section on your right running along London Road. It sits directly behind the wall/trees on the right side of the road in. (Turning right and over the wee bridge beside the office)
I've attempted to mark some sections on the attached map - hope it works!!
c = Common Ground
Anne.
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Another wee hint which might help .......
Section 13 has some CWGC War Graves, so if you go to the CWGC site, change the pulldown menu from 'Casualties' to 'Cemeteries', enter 'Glasgow', look for St. Peters, then go through all the listed graves in Section 13. (The link below should take you to the first page, but if it doesn't, use the 'method' already explained)
http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_reports.aspx?cemetery=74406&mode=1
There may be one quite near to the one you're looking for. Most of the time, CWGC stones are well maintained, so they are normally quite easy to find.
Anne
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That map layout works a treat Anne :)
Monica
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Well done Anne, The layout map should be a great help to many.
Gerry
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Thanks folks. That's really useful. The map is excellent. We do have two burials in old dalbeth Gerry which we'd like to commemorate but the prospect is unlikely from what I hear due to the difficulty in locating the lairs.
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Camillo,
Do you know the lair numbers? I can probably give you a rough guide to where in Dalbeth they are situated.
Gerry
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Gerry I've finally managed to track down a lair number/
I'm looking for the location of Section 7 C (central)
I now know the exact location of section 7 (West) but am wondering if Section 7 C is in Old Dalbeth. The lair in question was opened in 1871.
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Camillo,
It sounds as if its still St Peter's Dalbeth only has mention of East & West side / East & West Wall and South Wall. I haven't seen any mention of letters for any of the sections.
Gerry
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Attached map with some more sections marked - also the boundary line which separates East & West.
I think the Central Section (Marked X) is the part right down at the bottom, towards the river.
P = Polish Section, although it'll have a number - the 'P' is just my version!
Anne
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Thanks for the map. Slightly confused though. I have Section 3 down by the burn rather than where it is by Old Dalbeth on the aerial shot.
That Section 7 on the right hand side over the wall has a significant number of new graves. I'm looking for a grave in Section 7 that was opened in 1871.
Would this mean three section 7's West ,Central and East
And the Central Division you've marked Anne, it's a mess right?
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I think it does mean there are 3 Section 7's, but I stand to be corrected!
1 West, 1 East (new, as you said), then 1 Central.
I took aerial views with me one day and tried my best to mark as many of the sections in their correct place. Once I got the maps home of course, all the scribbles which made perfect sense at the time, made not quite so much sense.
When looking at the whole cemetery on an aerial view, the part down towards the river is certainly 'central' in position.
Perhaps Section 7 West has 3 parts to it - A, B, & C? It does stretch along quite a length.
Anne
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Thanks Anne
Are there any surviving headstones down there by the Clyde?
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Not really - few and far between from what I remember, but as I was mainly looking for war graves, I knew there wouldn't be any WW1/WW2 stones anyway.
It's difficult when you're there to figure out exactly where you are. Looks easy looking down from on high. :)
Anne
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Anne
We have plotted about 30 graves in the cemetery so we are more than happy to contribute to the aerial map in identifying the exact layout.
Some of the Central division we believe (Section 1) is right up by the wall by the toilets. I'll post a further update
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My 'method' is .....
Every CWGC grave can be identified on their site, so once you find one, you know exactly which Section and Lair number that stone is.
Most people only look for individual casulties on CWGC, but the 'Casualty' box is a pull down menu and when pulled down, changes to 'Cemeteries'.
If you then key in Glasgow (which is the best option), all the Glasgow Cemeteries appear and the one you want can be picked out.
The old part of Dalbeth is listed as GLASGOW (DALBETH) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY and the cemetery is listed as GLASGOW (ST. PETER'S) ROMAN CATHOLIC CEMETERY
The single CWGC grave in the old part is listed as 'West Side, Lair 396 not that that would really be any help unless in was Lair 395 or 397 you were looking for!
This method also helps to work out which way the Lair Numbers run - if and when you identify a couple of CWGC stones, all should make sense.
Anne
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Camillo.
I had a look today at the St Peter's / Dalbeth registers in The Mitchel. Section 7 Central is defiantly in St Peter's as there are many listing for that area from 1870's onwards.
I also popped along to the cemetery but there was no one in the office / shed to ask for better location details.
Gerry
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I've located Section 7C which is in the middle of the "old" part of St Peters just to the left of the new burials in section 3B.
Section 3a runs alongside the full length of the burn from the cemetery office to the end of the central section.
We have also established that section 1 Central runs all the way along the dividing wall.
Anne if you post a blank of your aerial photo I'll put on what information we have from the Celtic Graves Society.
I couldn't see much evidence of burials in the trees by the clyde in your section x but sadly came across quite a few dumped headstone (from the 30's onwards)
Camillo
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Hi Camillo,
Do you want me to send you a blank copy and you can mark it up before posting?
Is it just the central sections you want a map of?
I won't do anything till I've heard back from you.
Anne
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That would be great Anne.
It really is an attempt to pin down the exact boundaries of the older sections which are problematical as the newer sections are mostly clearly defined.
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Send me a PM with your personal e-mail and I'll forward a copy.
I've turned the angle of the view to show the whole cemetery but with half of the old, old part cut off. Gerry posted an image of that earlier, so I don't suppose that'll matter.
If you'd rather it was the original way round, just let me know.
Anne
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I may be asking a question that's already answered but I have just found a record for a child in 1901 Common Ground at St Peter's. Is that in the old section beside the London Road which Anne had marked in the aerial photo? Or is that even older?
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Hi Liz,
Welcome to rootschat. Yes the common ground you refer to will be in one of the three areas marked c in Annes photo.
Gerry
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I have quite a few people in Dalbeth, and I know the lair/sections. All of them are in the `W' division. I assume that means west? Would there be a reason why they would all be in the west side? Was it less expensive? From a certain time period? Is there a explanation for the pattern of all being on that side?
I have others (from before 1910) where there is no grave location named. Would that be because they're in common ground or were they simply not recording the grave locations in the Catholic records at that time?
I will be travelling to Glasgow next week (from Canada), and I am going to visit Dalbeth. Is there anything I should be sure to do before I go to ensure I get learn the most that I can learn from my visit?
Thank you!
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Regards to the West side there doesn't appear to be any difference in the cost of burials going by the many burial registers I've seen. I think like most cemeteries they have just filled it section by section. Other reasons could be that families where or if they could afford to bought several plots together for the purpose of being together once they had passed. There is a common burial area which is the land at the main road area of the cemetery, burials in this area are just listed as CG. Also the registers for the very early burials 1860's don't all show lair no's.
I'll send you a pm regards visiting Dalbeth.
Gerry
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Thank you!
I have people in sections 13W, 15W, 16W and 18W and some of them are in the same immediate family. I think it's probably because of the time period and not because of shared lairs since they're spread across different sections. Everyone on the page with each of the records was also west.
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hi
my Nan's dads grave is here ( i think) i know he died 16-04-1957 aged 55 at 47 Delburn Street Parkhead and was buried in dalbeth cemetery lair 844 section 17 Daniel Mcilwham
along with
Annie Crossan (sister in law) date of internment 11-10-32 age 25
Elizabeth Crossan Mcilwham (wife) date of internment 13-07-40 age 38
Edward Mcilwham (son) date of internment 01-09-47 age 18
Elizabeth Mcilwham (daughter) date of internment 01-07-52 age 3 months
Has anyone any information or photos please many thanks
Joanne
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Joanne
see your other entry for this grave, I have some info and pics.
Davie
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Are Old Dalbeth and St. Peters Dalbeth the same cemetery? I have 2 burials in section 12 -division 6C and it says St. Peters Dalbeth. Can you give me a rough idea where this section is- I see one picture with section 12 shown but was not sure if it is correct cemetery, Thanks
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They are seperate cemeteries, about a couple of hundred yards apart. Old Dalbeth is not in use now, and quite rundown, although work has been done to keep it clear. St Peter's, Dalbeth is still in use and most people refer to that simply as Dalbeth. Enter by main gates on London Rd. If you can't locate the lair the groundsmen are quite helpful if around at the time. If you're not local I can nip down and have a look for you. PM me.
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Hi
I would like to locate my grandmother's grave in St Peter's Dalbeth from 1947. I think it is Section 13 Division W. and have a four digit lair number, but the age on this burial record isn't right (it's noted her age as that when she was married on the burial record- not the age I know she was when she died eight years later, which I assume is an error by someone looking at the marriage cert whilst registering) so I can't be 100% sure it's her burial record. There doesn't seem to be a connection between the burial record and the death cert number, or is there a way of searching using this?
I'm sure this record is her as the burial record is recorded as 17 days after her death and she is the only person of that name (incl. variants) to die and be buried in Glasgow within the six months following her known date of death. That is according to the records I have searched on ScotlandsPeople and using info on my family copies of her birth, marriage & death certificate.
I don't think there is a headstone there and would like to place one or replace the remains of the one there. Is this possible? Will it be easy to locate on site?
I live within 20miles of the cemetery so I plan to visit the cemetery to arrange this myself in the coming weeks. Any advice you can give would be gratefully received, especially in dealing with the cemetery.
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Hi
If you have a Sec/Lair No then it should be quite easy to find the grave. The staff on site are very helpful so just pop into the office and I'm sure they will take you to the correct lair. As for placing/replacing a headstone, this again should be fairly simple, staff will advise you and there is a facility near the main gate for you to order a headstone.
Concerning the 'wrong' dates/age on the SP records, I have several burials at Dalbeth that have incorrect details. As you mention quite possibly someone reading or giving wrong info at the time.
It is possible to contact the Diocese office and speak to Sharon, she should be able to give you info on who else is buried in the lair, which would help confirm you have the right person. Again staff on site can help there too.
Good luck
Davie
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Hi to all
Would anyone know how the Lairs are numbered?
I'm looking for Lair 266 in Section 18.
Thanks
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Hi
not been into Dalbeth for a while, but if you ask a groundsman they will direct you to the right lair.
Failing that Sec 18 is clearly marked, and my 'trick' is to find a War grave closeby and work from there. So looking at the War Grave records:
Donald James McLeish, RASC is Sec 18, Lair 200
Alexander Owens, Royal Artillery is Sec 18, Lair 219
working from that I would pace out 47 paces to 266!
A lot of headstones have the lair numbers engraved on the base, so that helps as well.
Do hope that is claer and helps.
Davie
ps forgot to add, if you're not local I can nip down and have a look for you, need some more info though. Names, dates etc.
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Hi
not been into Dalbeth for a while, but if you ask a groundsman they will direct you to the right lair.
Failing that Sec 18 is clearly marked, and my 'trick' is to find a War grave closeby and work from there. So looking at the War Grave records:
Donald James McLeish, RASC is Sec 18, Lair 200
Alexander Owens, Royal Artillery is Sec 18, Lair 219
working from that I would pace out 47 paces to 266!
A lot of headstones have the lair numbers engraved on the base, so that helps as well.
Do hope that is claer and helps.
Davie
ps forgot to add, if you're not local I can nip down and have a look for you, need some more info though. Names, dates etc.
Davie thanks very much for that info and your much appreciated offer, very kind of you.
Fortunately I'll be in Glasgow shortly and plan visiting Dalbeth, my grandparents' and aunt's grave.
I will be able to find it now no bother thanks to your clear instructions - haven't visited since I was a wee boy 60+years ago.
Thanks again.
John
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Hi looking for some help please!!im currently doing my family tree and have found that my great great grandmother and father are both buried in lair 598 section 9. Division i cant work out if its an e or a c? Any help would be amazing thank you :)