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General => Armed Forces => World War One => Topic started by: Lynntony on Tuesday 09 November 10 22:01 GMT (UK)
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I'm researching my grandfathers military record and have hit a problem. In the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 there are four James G Murphys. Obviously only one is the one I'm looking for, but how do I find out which one? There is no-one in the family to point me in the right direction so I'm pretty much stumped!
James was born and lived in the Lancashire area if that's of any help.
Thanks in advance
Tony
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You need some more clues I'm afraid...
See http://www.1914-1918.net/ for some inspiration, but in these cases I've used Absent Voters' Lists (which don't exist for everywhere); photos of the soldiers; medals; newspaper cuttings.
Worse still - you should not assume that your G/F is actually in as James G Murphy - he might just be recorded as James Murphy.
Note that in the MICs, the one from the Inniskilling Fusiliers entered France in July 1915 - is this feasible by date for your G/F? If not, you can knock him out. Not that knocking out one will help much....
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Thanks Adrian.
I take your point about the James G Murphy and James Murphy - which does, unfortunately, throw up even more possibilities!!! I had just assumed that, as that was the name on his war grave citation - he died in WW2* - that was the name he would enlist under. Obviously wrong to make assumptions!
As far as the age is concerned, he was born in 1898, so he would have been 16 or so at the outbreak of war.
* He joined the RAF Auxilary and was part of 919/23 Balloon Squadron based at Birkenhead.
It looks as though this is going to be one of those "needle in haystack" searches! :-\
Tony
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Tony
Have you got his ww2 record from MOD? There maybe something on them reference prior service.....also any medals you have in your possession WW1 would have his number on rims.
Ady
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Tony
Have you got his ww2 record from MOD? There maybe something on them reference prior service.....also any medals you have in your possession WW1 would have his number on rims.
Ady
I hadn't thought of that Ady! Certainly worth considering.
Regarding the medals - I don't have any, nor do I have access to anyone that may. All I have is his inquest report and funeral report as printed in the Widnes Weekly News.
Thanks for the suggestion
Tony
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http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2701135
Tony...I take it you have the above info?
Ady
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Thanks Ady, I do have that and, thanks to Phil Jennet, I also have pics of his headstone and inclusion on the Widnes Cenotaph.
Tony
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Tony, hope your well.
I cant really add much more to this, other than the fact that the service number that Jim Murphy was issues by the Royal Air Force (Auxiliary Air Force) is one that was issued pre 1939, so he was a pre-war volunteer.
The AAF, was made up of volunteers who had flying experience or, I suspect in the Case of Jim Murphy, an Engineering type back ground, and we know that he was a Cabinet Maker in 1921 supporting the fact that he 'was good with his hands'.
It is possible that he was an Engineer during WW1?
I am almost certain that his WW2 service record will include details of previous military service.
I do plan another visit to the Library in the near future, so will see if I can turn up any further details.
P
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Sorry P! Almost missed this one.
With regard to Jim Murphy, his daughter's wedding certificate shows him as an upholsterer, yet his death certificate describes his civilian job as a labourer.
When he joined the AAF he was seconded to the Barrage Balloon Reg. at the outbreak of war - would he have needed an engineering background for that?
I might have a problem getting his service record as, technically, I'm not next of kin.
We spoke some time ago about getting further info on Jim from his daughter. Unfortunately, the situation there remains the same, with no meeting planned.
She doesn't remember much about the circumstances of his death either. In fact, the two newspaper reports you obtained for me, and which I posted copies of to her, were the first she'd seen regarding the inquest and funeral reports. She has no photographs of Jim and was going to sound out other members of the family to see if they had any. (I'm not holding my breath!!)
I also sent her a copy of a pic from the BBRclub site showing a group of members of the squad. She wrote back and said that none of them could be him as he wasn't a pilot!! To be honest, I don't think she knows much about her father's service record. She was 17 when he died and in the ATS so I guess she had other things to think about.
Appreciate the offer to look up more info when you visit the library.
In the meantime, have a great Christmas! :)
Tony
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Hi Tony
When he joined the AAF he was seconded to the Barrage Balloon Reg. at the outbreak of war - would he have needed an engineering background for that?
His service number indiates that he joined the AAF pre-war, and at that time Balloon Command was at the least in its infnacy so it is possible that he worked prior to Balloon comand in another occupation.
I might have a problem getting his service record as, technically, I'm not next of kin.
As Jim has now been dead over 25 years, anyone can apply for his service record as lomng as they pay the admin Fee, but any personal data will be omited. Would be worth rining the records office and asking what you would get.
P
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As Jim has now been dead over 25 years, anyone can apply for his service record as lomng as they pay the admin Fee, but any personal data will be omited. Would be worth rining the records office and asking what you would get.
Thanks for that Phil. A little job to do in the New Year.
If he joined the AAF pre-war, would that have been part-time, as with the TA?
Just curious as to why he would be described as "upholsterer (deceased)" on his daughter's marriage cert.
Tony
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Tony, they may have asked for his peacetime occupation, and whilst he joined up pre war, people would still have refered to his trade. The AAF started a big 'Full Time' and 'Reservist' dive in Late 1938 and started the Balloon Commands for West lancs in march 1939 on the basis of they realised that the threat from Germany was real, and that the defenxce of the country needed improving. The fact that War wasnt declared until 6 months later would be irrelevant
I will see what is in the electoral role pre 1939 when I am nest at the Library
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hello i know this is an old post but i have stumbbled across your search in effort to find some rugby history of my dads. My name is jemma murphy, James Gerard murphy the one whom you speak here is my great grandfather, other names related to his other than the ones you have mentioned on other posts are Nancy, Gerard ( passed away in childhood ) Jerry and James ( my grandfather ) if you have found the right connection to your own circumstance and are still looking ( i know many years have passed ) please get in touch because your search has raised many questions now of my own.
thank you for reading feel free to contact me.
Jem
Details of living/possibly living people removed in accordance with Rootschat policy.
See also: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=635285
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Hi everyone im very new to this as i came across this purely by accident with no intent in mind to dig into family history. I was researching into my dads rugby history on the internet just randomly googling his name and past teams, when i came across a search by someone else who was looking for the Murphy Family of Widnes.
this was the post i found ........
"I'm trying to locate anyone with information about the Murphy family of Widnes. Do these names mean anything to you :-
James Gerard (Jim) Murphy... I know that James died in 1943 and is buried in Widnes Cemetery, but have no information about what happened to the rest of the family. Can anyone please help?"
Naturally i was intrigued since i recognise every name, James Gerard was my great grandfather and some of the names missing from this list are Nancy, Gerard ( passed in childhood ) Jerry and my grandad James ( Jim-lad) the last time i saw the family was roughly 10 years ago at uncle Jerrys funeral.
What im wondering is, who is the person asking about our family and did they follow the right path? it was a few years since the original post so im wondering if they managed to find anything more, plus we could potentially be second cousins.
What has also captured my intrest is the mystery surrounding James Gerards death, as it is believed he was killed on barracks during a fight/argument with a fellow serviceman whom was never brought to justice ( if he was guilty of course ). My dad has more info.
Please feel free to contact me if you know anything about this search or the family its got me and my dad very curious.
thankyou
jem
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This looks like the query you found-why not try contacting them with the email address provided?
http://blogs.chesterchronicle.co.uk/cheshire-memories/1900-1999.html
See also:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,494894.msg4826549.html#msg4826549
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because it was an old post i wasnt sure if they still had this contact detail i have found out they are on this forum but i only registered yesterday and couldnt private message, i could have my knowledge completely wrong as we dont see the rest of the family that often, ive asked w questions of the few i am in touch with and i understand that this IS the right family connection however it may have been one that wants to remain distant, for me however im very interested to find out more about my family.
Also it would be good to get any new information from another source since it has started something for me and my dad now :)
Jem
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Hi Jemma
Welcome to Rootschat ;D
I have merged the two threads so that all the info and the replies stay in one place. Hopefully the original poster will be online again soon.
In the meantime - any other questions on a different subject please feel free to start a new thread on the relevant board ;D
Milly ;D
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hi and thank you. I've not had time to fully explore this site yet and get the hang of what to post or not, i just saw this request and was very excited about what i have accidentally discovered.
Apologies for any faux pas made so far, but i am quite hooked on this now so many questions, its like I've stubbled into an episode of who do you think you are :)
Jem
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Thanks to all who have helped in this matter. The upshot is that Jemma and I are now in touch.
I'd missed this due to not being on the forum for some time but things always turn out right in the end!
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Morning Tony / Jemma, if any new info / photos arise regarding Jim Murphy, I would be interested in hearing from you
Phil
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Hi Phil,
Good to hear from you. Sorry about the delay in replying. I don't get on here as much as I used to due to other projects.
Unfortunately I haven't had any provable info about Jim Murphy since we were last in contact. The only thing that did come to light was, according to my mother, that Jim was with the Royal Artilliary during WW1. She wasn't a hundred percent certain about this, and it may prove to be wrong, but it was the best that she could come up with. We are still in contact though and something else may surface in the future.
Tony
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Hi there Ive only found this thread by accident. Anyone still here interested in James Gerard Murphy please drop me a line. He was my grandfather and I can fill in some gaps if anyone is interested.